A Question on Gender
- AcesHigh [ANF]
- Embryo
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- Soluzar [ANF]
- Sahaquiel
- Posts: 618
- Joined: Oct 19, 2007
AcesHigh wrote:I understand why some of the Evas are referred to as "she" by some members of this forum, but what about Adam? The Eva Series? Is this just an arbitrary nomination, or something else?
It's based on various hints in the dialogue, and visual clues. It's definitely not random, but it's something you have to work out, rather than something you actually get directly told. There was another thread about this a few days ago. You may wish to look for it. It's probably still on the first page.
There are a good number of fans who don't agree with the conclusions drawn from the various clues contained in the anime, but I have never found their arguments convincing in the slightest. Remember that the name "Adam" was probably just given to her by humans. We will never know what her real name is.
If you actually want someone to go into detail on what the clues are, then I can do that for you, but Reichu would most certainly do the job better. She was the primary advocate of these theories, although I consider myself to have been instrumental in noting the significance of one particular clue.
NOTE: The term "the Eva Series" encompasses all the Evangelions. What you mean is the Mass Production Evangelions, also called (by fans) the Harpies, due to their resemblance to this mythological creature.
Originally posted on: 17-Jan-2006, 02:38 GMT
- Leader Desslock [ANF]
- Adam
- Posts: 60
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AcesHigh wrote:I understand why some of the Evas are referred to as "she" by some members of this forum...Is this just an arbitrary nomination, or something else?
Not many people are aware that Rumiko Takahashi was a staff writer during the production of the anime series. You'll notice that the feminine pronoun is most used after sudden rainstorms, or after an EVA unit walks down the alleyway containing the little old dipper woman.
Originally posted on: 17-Jan-2006, 02:42 GMT
- AcesHigh [ANF]
- Embryo
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- Reichu [ANF]
- Angel
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There is this thread, right on the first page...
http://animenation.net/forums/showthread.php?t=186241
But it did turn into a cesspool of @$$holery, so you probably do want to just stay the hell away from it. Unless it's already too late.
This topic has worn away at my nerves for a good, long while. There is a lot of evidence, in-series, that identifies Adam, the Evas, and Lilith as not only "feminine", but outright female. Most people accept this premise, but there are a handful who don't and will be sure to express their views on the matter, too, just to piss me off. Or, uh, just because they don't agree, even though IMO the SoL/Eva Sex bit is as elementary as the Yui-Rei connection. Honestly.
But, no, it's not arbitrary at all. All you have to do is take what the series feeds us, the audience, at face value -- that is, you take it for precisely what it is unless the show gives you reason to do otherwise. (An example of this is the Adam-Lilith scandal.) Ergo, if a character refers to one of these entities as "mother", you shouldn't just brush this off, unless you plan on brushing off other bits of evidence similarly just because they can be interpreted in a "less literal" manner. Similarly, if any of these entities are specifically referred to as "she" (which, I might add, is very rarely done in Japanese -- and, in NGE, they do this twice with the Evas), you aren't supposed to brush this off, either. Brushing these hints off = Very Bad. And this is what OMF & Others do, which is why I cannot give their arguments the time of day -- because they can't even play by the rules of NGE itself, unless it satisfies their own whims.
In any case, my psyche has been eroded away by the last awful thread on this debate, even though I know the evidence like the back of my hand. (And that other thread doesn't even scratch the surface, really.) I might as well put together a page for FGC (see sig) laying it all out, even if in a rough and no-pictures manner. Hope you don't mind waiting.
Originally posted on: 17-Jan-2006, 02:43 GMT
http://animenation.net/forums/showthread.php?t=186241
But it did turn into a cesspool of @$$holery, so you probably do want to just stay the hell away from it. Unless it's already too late.
This topic has worn away at my nerves for a good, long while. There is a lot of evidence, in-series, that identifies Adam, the Evas, and Lilith as not only "feminine", but outright female. Most people accept this premise, but there are a handful who don't and will be sure to express their views on the matter, too, just to piss me off. Or, uh, just because they don't agree, even though IMO the SoL/Eva Sex bit is as elementary as the Yui-Rei connection. Honestly.
But, no, it's not arbitrary at all. All you have to do is take what the series feeds us, the audience, at face value -- that is, you take it for precisely what it is unless the show gives you reason to do otherwise. (An example of this is the Adam-Lilith scandal.) Ergo, if a character refers to one of these entities as "mother", you shouldn't just brush this off, unless you plan on brushing off other bits of evidence similarly just because they can be interpreted in a "less literal" manner. Similarly, if any of these entities are specifically referred to as "she" (which, I might add, is very rarely done in Japanese -- and, in NGE, they do this twice with the Evas), you aren't supposed to brush this off, either. Brushing these hints off = Very Bad. And this is what OMF & Others do, which is why I cannot give their arguments the time of day -- because they can't even play by the rules of NGE itself, unless it satisfies their own whims.
In any case, my psyche has been eroded away by the last awful thread on this debate, even though I know the evidence like the back of my hand. (And that other thread doesn't even scratch the surface, really.) I might as well put together a page for FGC (see sig) laying it all out, even if in a rough and no-pictures manner. Hope you don't mind waiting.
Originally posted on: 17-Jan-2006, 02:43 GMT
- Soluzar [ANF]
- Sahaquiel
- Posts: 618
- Joined: Oct 19, 2007
Leader Desslock wrote:Not many people are aware that Rumiko Takahashi was a staff writer during the production of the anime series. You'll notice that the feminine pronoun is most used after sudden rainstorms, or after an EVA unit walks down the alleyway containing the little old dipper woman.
Not for the first time, and not for the last... Leader Desslock for the win!
Originally posted on: 17-Jan-2006, 02:50 GMT
- MagicianCamille [ANF]
- Sachiel
- Posts: 234
- Joined: Oct 19, 2007
Reichu wrote:There is this thread, right on the first page...
http://animenation.net/forums/showthread.php?t=186241
But it did turn into a cesspool of @$$holery, so you probably do want to just stay the hell away from it. Unless it's already too late.
I extinguished the flames though.
Did I get any recognition for it? No. It's okay though, I know Rachel doesn't know how to show gratitude.
As for the topic: Most people here tend to refer to them as females. I don't. But what I say doesn't matter because I'm not much of an analyst. Which is why 1% of the people in the Eva forum read my posts instead of skipping ahead. One of these days I should just make a post with size 7 point. That'll show 'em.
Originally posted on: 17-Jan-2006, 03:07 GMT
- drgenestarwind [ANF]
- Embryo
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- Seele08 [ANF]
- Matarael
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- Reichu [ANF]
- Angel
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EVA-04 never got to the point where she would have gotten a soul, actually. Unless there is something critical that I missed.
EVA-03 had the soul of Toji's mom. They talked about preparing a core for a certain eligible candidate, after all...
I've started writing that rundown, BTW. But, like I said -- don't hold your breath, Aces. Good things take at least a little while.
Originally posted on: 17-Jan-2006, 04:34 GMT
EVA-03 had the soul of Toji's mom. They talked about preparing a core for a certain eligible candidate, after all...
I've started writing that rundown, BTW. But, like I said -- don't hold your breath, Aces. Good things take at least a little while.
Originally posted on: 17-Jan-2006, 04:34 GMT
- MagicianCamille [ANF]
- Sachiel
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Reichu wrote:EVA-04 never got to the point where she would have gotten a soul, actually. Unless there is something critical that I missed.
Why is it a she if it doesn't have a female's soul?
EVA-03 had the soul of Toji's mom. They talked about preparing a core for a certain eligible candidate, after all...
That doesn't neccessarily mean they put the soul of Touji's mom in the core.
EDIT: I just referred to a soul as a female soul. Which sounds fairly stupid, so I'll just put female's*.
Originally posted on: 17-Jan-2006, 04:37 GMT
- Seele08 [ANF]
- Matarael
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- Sharp-kun [ANF]
- Clockiel
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Robots don't have gender.
XD
There's the possibility that NERV in the US might have stuck one in, but its never stated and given that it wasn't quite finished its best to go with the assumption that it never had one. Thats supported by the fact that a pilot hadn't been chosen, and by extension neither could a soul.
Originally posted on: 17-Jan-2006, 04:40 GMT
Leader Desslock wrote:Not many people are aware that Rumiko Takahashi was a staff writer during the production of the anime series. You'll notice that the feminine pronoun is most used after sudden rainstorms, or after an EVA unit walks down the alleyway containing the little old dipper woman.
XD
Reichu wrote:EVA-04 never got to the point where she would have gotten a soul, actually. Unless there is something critical that I missed.
There's the possibility that NERV in the US might have stuck one in, but its never stated and given that it wasn't quite finished its best to go with the assumption that it never had one. Thats supported by the fact that a pilot hadn't been chosen, and by extension neither could a soul.
Originally posted on: 17-Jan-2006, 04:40 GMT
- Reichu [ANF]
- Angel
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MagicianCamille wrote:Why is it a she if it doesn't have a female's soul?
Because Evas have o-va-ries.
That doesn't neccessarily mean they put the soul of Touji's mom in the core.
If you "prepare" a core for a specific pilot, that implies that you put somebody in there that (s)he can synchronize with. Ergo... Anno says, "Use your brain. I hate spoonfeeding you morons!"
Seele08 wrote:@ Reichu, do you know why Shinji can synche with unit-00, who is not his mom...
Ehhh, I'll revisit that one later...
Sharp-kun wrote:Robots don't have gender.
:snork: Yes, yes. And robots bleed, too. Yes, I know, dear.
But I agree. EVA-03 wasn't given a soul until a pilot was chosen, so presumably they wouldn't have done differently with Yon.
Originally posted on: 17-Jan-2006, 04:45 GMT
- Sharp-kun [ANF]
- Clockiel
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"Exam in 3 hours, procrastinate heeheehee"
00 contains the soul of Rei-1, which is the soul of Lilith. It's the soul of the "mother of humanity" thats been inside a clone of Yui. I'd guess that's close enough.
Rei manages it as she's in effect synching with herself.
Originally posted on: 17-Jan-2006, 04:45 GMT
Seele08 wrote:@ Reichu, do you know why Shinji can synche with unit-00, who is not his mom...
00 contains the soul of Rei-1, which is the soul of Lilith. It's the soul of the "mother of humanity" thats been inside a clone of Yui. I'd guess that's close enough.
Rei manages it as she's in effect synching with herself.
Originally posted on: 17-Jan-2006, 04:45 GMT
- Reichu [ANF]
- Angel
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- Sharp-kun [ANF]
- Clockiel
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- Reichu [ANF]
- Angel
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- MagicianCamille [ANF]
- Sachiel
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If you "prepare" a core for a specific pilot, that implies that you put somebody in there that (s)he can synchronize with.
Pilots can only synchronize with their mother's souls?
Ergo... Anno says, "Use your brain. I hate spoonfeeding you morons!"
This is why nobody loves you.
Originally posted on: 17-Jan-2006, 04:52 GMT
- Sharp-kun [ANF]
- Clockiel
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