Gendo At His Desk

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Postby LuigiHann [ANF] » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:46 am

Perhaps this thread is relevent enough to ask this question: The "fruit of life" is generally agreed to refer to the S2 engine; is there any consensus on what the "fruit of knowlege/wisdom" refers to in this context? Biblically, it's the forbidden fruit, the fruit from the Tree of Knowlege of Good and Evil, and the catalyst of Original Sin (often considered to be the cause of things such as sexuality, modesty, and death, among others), and it's what separates the Angels from the Lilim, so you'd think it must be something interesting. If the FoL is the S2 organ, then the FoK could be an organ as well. I'm tempted to say "The Human Mind/Brain," but there's no particular suggestion that the Angels lack that.
I'm sure this is just more "pointless religious symbolism" so it's not necessarily that relevant to the Biblical version, but usually in NGE when they use religious terms they're referring to something that's specific and concrete in NGE's reality.

Originally posted on: 11-Apr-2006, 15:27 GMT

Shin-seiki [ANF]
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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:46 am

RCB wrote:Fruit of Wisdom (CHIE NO MI)]
That possessed by humans. The product of this wisdom appears to be "Science", which is praised by Gendou as "the power of man," but ridiculed by Fuyutsuki as "the cause of Second Impact". If so then Eva and the Instrumentality Project are also the products of this wisdom. According to the book of Genesis in the Old Testament, at the center of the Garden of Eden next to the Tree of Life was also a Tree of Wisdom -- a Tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Humans disobeyed God's command and ate of its fruit, so God banished humans from the Garden of Eden and imposed many discomforts upon them. Does this mean that humans are beings that were banished from the Garden of Eden in exchange for obtaining wisdom?
I have my own theory that 'Fruit of Wisdom/Knowledge' = DNA, but I intend to elaborate on that idea at some future time in its own thread.

Originally posted on: 11-Apr-2006, 15:44 GMT

the-manics-MSP [ANF]
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Postby the-manics-MSP [ANF] » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:46 am

the desk changes shape throughout the series, there were multiple pictures on the evamonkey forums that prove this.

if this was a attempt to insert a judaic reference, then it wasnt planned from the beginning. unless gendou changes his office every few weeks.

BTW, the fruit of life, the tree of life. all comes from sacred geometry. example: http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b...R/Tatig/MAP.jpg the kabbalistic tree of life is based off a pattern called the flower of life found in egypt (the pattern in the background)

The seed of life
the egg of life
the flower of life
the tree of life

these are all names for geometeries, tis pretty interesting as all religious systems rest on these basic geometeries, check them out. also, the pattern of DNA is based of very simple geometry between water and various proteins, this is why i think DNA in eva is associated with evolution/the soul/the tree of life map: as in the tree of life stacked on top of each other makes the pattern for DNA, as well as all the ancient cultures that used the double helix for the symbol of ascension ie, the eyptains, the mayans, the shamanic tribes in the western basin of the amazon etc.

i thought there was a connection between EVA-01 and the daath sephiroth, being associated with knowledge thus sammuel (shining light not disstilled into creation, its why it is called the lightbringer). however, that turned out to be unfounded.

Originally posted on: 11-Apr-2006, 16:09 GMT

Reichu [ANF]
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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:46 am

Shin-seiki wrote:I have my own theory that 'Fruit of Wisdom/Knowledge' = DNA, but I intend to elaborate on that idea at some future time in its own thread.


Well, I hope you've taken the following into account...

- The Fruit of Knowledge would be something that Adam & Kids are missing. They certainly don't seem to be at any loss for DNA.

- Fuyutsuki says that the Fruit of Knowledge is held by humans (by context, "the humans derived from Lilith"). Ergo, it is something that not only does Adam-based life lack, but presumably the rest of Lilith-based life lacks, as well. DNA is the very thread of Life As We Know It, and all LBLs have it. (At least, all of the ones worth mentioning. Image )

- And there's this from the EoE Theatrical Program, too:
[Fruit of Wisdom (CHIE NO MI)]
That possessed by humans. The product of this wisdom appears to be "Science", which is praised by Gendou as "the power of man," but ridiculed by Fuyutsuki as "the cause of Second Impact". If so then Eva and the Instrumentality Project are also the products of this wisdom. According to the book of Genesis in the Old Testament, at the center of the Garden of Eden next to the Tree of Life was also a Tree of Wisdom -- a Tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Humans disobeyed God's command and ate of its fruit, so God banished humans from the Garden of Eden and imposed many discomforts upon them. Does this mean that humans are beings that were banished from the Garden of Eden in exchange for obtaining wisdom?
...which you, uh, just quoted, now that I look again.

So I'm confuzzled by your pet theory, to say the least. Image

Originally posted on: 11-Apr-2006, 17:29 GMT

AsukaxSohryux [ANF]
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Postby AsukaxSohryux [ANF] » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:46 am

Wow, people you really are going too far into the subject matter of Eva. If I remember correctly, this is a topic of Gendo at his desk, not about the theoretical and impossible question about the Fruit of Knowledge. If people want to read about the Fruit of Knowledge read the bible or something more relavent than someones own interpretation of it from an animation. Though reading the comments put forth, they very interesting but they go too deep and irrelavant to say the least.



Asuka


Originally posted on: 11-Apr-2006, 19:23 GMT

Reichu [ANF]
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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:46 am

AsukaxSohryux wrote:If people want to read about the Fruit of Knowledge read the bible or something more relavent than someones own interpretation of it from an animation.


The matter of off-topic conversation (hardly anything new) aside...

LuigiHann wrote:...usually in NGE when they use religious terms they're referring to something that's specific and concrete in NGE's reality.


Filler text.

Originally posted on: 11-Apr-2006, 19:34 GMT

The Opinionator [ANF]
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Postby The Opinionator [ANF] » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:46 am

Reichu wrote:The matter of off-topic conversation (hardly anything new) aside...

The Opinionator wrote:Am I the only one who thinks that some of the things on that list might actually not be pointless? Of course, that might not be appropriate to discuss in this particular thread.

If anyone, blame me for not taking my own advice.

Reichu wrote:Filler text.

I don't understand what you mean.

Originally posted on: 12-Apr-2006, 08:59 GMT

Reichu [ANF]
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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:46 am

The Opinionator wrote:I don't understand what you mean.


The forum software doesn't let you end posts with a quote, for some reason.

Originally posted on: 11-Apr-2006, 21:01 GMT

LuigiHann [ANF]
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Postby LuigiHann [ANF] » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:46 am

I think the main reason this thread went off track is because there isn't much to be said about "the shape of Gendo, his desk, and their reflection." I only brought up the Fruit of Knowlege because people were discussing religious refs and that's been bugging me for a while, and the phrase is used too often in here for a search to be very effective.

Originally posted on: 11-Apr-2006, 22:48 GMT

HeWhoPostsStuff [ANF]
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Postby HeWhoPostsStuff [ANF] » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:46 am

Shin-seiki wrote:I have my own theory that 'Fruit of Wisdom/Knowledge' = DNA, but I intend to elaborate on that idea at some future time in its own thread.

Hmm...outta curiosity, does it have anything to do with the references in NGE to the cracking of the human genome? That event was supposedly what first got Yui moving in the direction of, well, where she eventually ended up...maybe the knowledge of DNA, and not the DNA itself, is what you're referring to?

Just speculating, heh heh.

Originally posted on: 12-Apr-2006, 03:12 GMT

Shin-seiki [ANF]
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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:47 am

HeWhoPostsStuff wrote:Hmm...outta curiosity, does it have anything to do with the references in NGE to the cracking of the human genome? That event was supposedly what first got Yui moving in the direction of, well, where she eventually ended up...maybe the knowledge of DNA, and not the DNA itself, is what you're referring to?

Just speculating, heh heh.
More like -
Super Solenoid = Double Helix
DNA = Double Helix
Coincidence? I think not...
Image

Originally posted on: 12-Apr-2006, 04:02 GMT

Reichu [ANF]
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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:47 am

Shin-seiki wrote:More like -
Super Solenoid = Double Helix
DNA = Double Helix
Coincidence? I think not...
Image


That was removed for the NPC, you know. Image [EDIT: Erm, I mean replaced. Wrong "re-" word.]

Hey, if I'm not supposed to post theories this perplexing in advance without providing any sort of real explanation, what makes you think you get to? Rabble rabble rabble!!!

</spam>

Originally posted on: 12-Apr-2006, 04:31 GMT

LuigiHann [ANF]
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Postby LuigiHann [ANF] » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:47 am

What was that from? I only watched the NPCs the last couple times I saw Eva, and I don't remember it at all. Was it replaced, or just cut?

Originally posted on: 12-Apr-2006, 05:33 GMT

Shin-seiki [ANF]
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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:47 am

LuigiHann wrote:What was that from? I only watched the NPCs the last couple times I saw Eva, and I don't remember it at all. Was it replaced, or just cut?
That's Ritsuko, Misato, and Shinji going down to Terminal Dogma in #23 (right after Misato confronts Ritsuko with her gun).

Originally posted on: 12-Apr-2006, 05:40 GMT

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Postby zuggy [ANF] » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:48 am

Chamber of Guf (#21', #23, #26') [Judaism, realm where souls originate]

O rly?

Guph, Guf, Guff (Hebrew) A hollow or empty body, a shell; commonly used in the Qabbalah to signify the human physical body, whether alive or dead. Other Hebrew words for body are: guphah, gewiyyah, and gewah.

Quoted from: http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/etgloss/gn-gz.htm

Originally posted on: 12-Apr-2006, 07:53 GMT

Reichu [ANF]
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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:48 am

zuggy wrote:O rly?


Tired, but here's something we kinda want:

http://www.torah.org/qanda/seequanda.php?id=438
According to the Talmud (Yevamos 62a), unborn souls are "stored" in a place called GUF (not to be confused with the usual translation of "GUF" as "body").
:goes to bed:

Originally posted on: 12-Apr-2006, 20:10 GMT

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Postby Quiddity [ANF] » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:48 am

Quiddity abandoned that site and domain name earlier this year. The Ideon stuff that used to be there is now at shin-getter.net, but I have no idea if or where the rest was re-hosted.


Not abandoned. The host pulled the plug. I still have all the content from all the sites, but have no host for them so they're off the web indefinately. Image

Looking back on that essay its great to see how accurate it was and still is. That essay was written in response to the notion that Eva could never air on american tv because it was too offensive. Lo and behold, its now airing on Cartoon Network.

Originally posted on: 12-Apr-2006, 11:21 GMT

PronsAmuro [ANF]
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Postby PronsAmuro [ANF] » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:48 am

And Quiddity STILL hasn't changed the Ideon link in his sig.

Actually Quiddity, if you really want, you could ask DeltaAnime for hosting for your other sites. They're usually pretty generous

Originally posted on: 12-Apr-2006, 11:32 GMT

HeWhoPostsStuff [ANF]
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Postby HeWhoPostsStuff [ANF] » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:48 am

Shin-seiki wrote:More like -
Super Solenoid = Double Helix

Hmm, something tells me this is a conversation from a ways back that I missed...offhand I can't recall anything in the series which links the double-helix form to anything S^2...got a link to enlighten me?

Originally posted on: 12-Apr-2006, 19:36 GMT

Shin-seiki [ANF]
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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:48 am

HeWhoPostsStuff wrote:Hmm, something tells me this is a conversation from a ways back that I missed...offhand I can't recall anything in the series which links the double-helix form to anything S^2...got a link to enlighten me?
Um, the word soleniod means coil or helix. The Spear, while not a S^2 engine per se, seems to operate on a similar principle. The Spear is a double helix, as is Armisael's original form. I myself feel justified in equating the S^2 with the double helix, for those, and other, reasons.

Originally posted on: 13-Apr-2006, 08:56 GMT


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