In the case of Kaworu...

[Trigger's Elysium]

Close this or move it or direct me to an eariler topic or whatever, but I wanna know...just what WAS Kaworu? I mean, I know he's designated an Angel and all and he's supposed to be the same as Rei, but how? Was he cloned with Keel or something? I don't know, man...I need EMF's superior Eva knowledge or it's masterful fanwankery to answer this one for me. I can't get my head around it. Or he could plain ole be an Angel =/

Also, any allusions to a fem Kaworu and I kill you. =X

[Reichu]

KAWORU IS A BOKUKKO.

Now that that's out of the way... I thought this was already explained?

Kaworu is the product of the Contact Experiment performed on Adam, which involved physical contact (oo-lala) with some unspecified Lilim individual. Said individual's DNA "dived into Adam" and "physically fused". Feasibly, this could interpreted as an immaculate conception, considering the product was an egg that Seele picked up, brought back home, put Adam's own soul into, and 'cultivated' into something that yaoi fangirls everywhere would squee over for years to come.

Given straightforward implications that the Contact Experiment was on-site and Lilim-to-Adam ("CE with the donor", not "CE with the donation", lol), the pool of suspects would be restricted to those who were actually present the day of. So aside from Random Nobodies, we're left with Dr. Katsuragi and Misato. The latter can be easily eliminated; the former fits rather nicely.

[Katayoku no Tenshi]

So aside from Random Nobodies, we're left with Dr. Katsuragi and Misato. The latter can be easily eliminated; the former fits rather nicely.

I wondered about that. Wouldn't Misato have notice the similarity? Naoko quickly realized the connection between Rei and Yui after all.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

I wondered about that. Wouldn't Misato have notice the similarity? Naoko quickly realized the connection between Rei and Yui after all.

Naoko saw Rei 6 years after Yui went sploosh. Misato saw Kaworu 15 years after Adam-go-boom. A pretty large time difference. Other factors to take into account Misato was 14 at the time her father died, Naoko was in her 30's when Yui disappeared near as I can tell. Time distorts memories especially ones from childhood. Remember in all of Asuka's flashbacks we NEVER see Kyoko's face, it's still obstructed in EoE. As far as we know Shinji didn't connect Rei to Yui until ep #16. He also didn't see his mothers face in ep #16 when she came to him. Not that I'm defending Reichu's theory or anything.

[Reichu]

Not that I'm defending Reichu's theory or anything.

Oh, what's that supposed to mean?

I wonder how many women would be able to recognize their dads as 14-year-olds who've been pallette-swapped and given weird eyes and wacky hair*, and after (A) the absolute minimum of contact with the weird 14-year-old version, and (B) not having seen the original since she was herself 14.

It's a valid criticism, but, still. On a general note, Dr. K. fits the bill rather well. (On an in-depth note... well, nevermind.)

EDIT: Incidentally, Rei 1 sported a haircut very similar to Yui's (whereas 2 and up sport the uniquely "Rei" 'do), which I'd surmise helped Naoko make the "Yui" connection.

* Assuming those are the only divergences.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

Not that I'm defending Reichu's theory or anything.

Oh, what's that supposed to mean?

Hey I gave them something to think about lay off!

I wonder how many women would be able to recognize their dads as 14-year-olds who've been pallette-swapped and given weird eyes and wacky hair*, and after (A) the absolute minimum of contact with the weird 14-year-old version, and (B) not having seen the original since she was herself 14.

Just to nitpick Kaworu was 15! 2I happened on September 13th 2000, ep #24' happened some time near the end of December 2015

[Reichu]

Just to nitpick Kaworu was 15! 2I happened on September 13th 2000, ep #24' happened some time near the end of December 2015

Technicalities.

Kaworu's "birthday" is the day he was conceived, which is kinda weird. If Shinji's "birthday" was considered in the same manner, then they would be just about the same age. Feasibly, Kaworu's birthday should have been recorded as the day he actually hatched, but that wouldn't have been a very revelatory bit of data. (I.e., wouldn't have provided a direct 2I-Kaworu-origins link.)

Assuming Seele started growing Kaworu before the end of 2000, and he developed as per a regular Lilim (nine months, blah blah), then he would essentially be 14 in #24.

[thewayneiac]

So aside from Random Nobodies, we're left with Dr. Katsuragi and Misato. The latter can be easily eliminated; the former fits rather nicely.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but......

You don't normally take your daughter along on highly dangerous top secret missions. Misato was there for a reason. The contact experiment with Adam is the only likely reason.

[Reichu]

You don't normally take your daughter along on highly dangerous top secret missions. Misato was there for a reason. The contact experiment with Adam is the only likely reason.

Why would they need Misato, specifically, as a donor? She has no inherently special qualifications aside from being the daughter of the team leader, and absolutely nothing aside from a need to "explain" her presence at Antarctica suggests that she has a thing to do with Kaworu's genetic origins.

But if you want to cross-reference: In the other two CEs, the participant Lilim is called a "test subject" instead of a "donor". Both times, they were members of the respective research teams who volunteered as experimentees. Both times, the test subjects were the spearheads of their respective projects. Both times, they were the parent of a primary cast member, and both (either immediately or eventually) died as a result of their experiments.

Sets a precedent for what we might expect of the mysterious 1st CE, anyway, that Dr. Katsuragi could effortlessly live up to.

I doubt that it's possible to explain anything by making Misato's role in 2I any more than that of a living witness. Your best bet, IMHO, is to turn to the family and/or father-daughter side of things for answers.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

Just a sugestion but maybe you should finish that thread on this particular theory of yours.

[Reichu]

Just a sugestion but maybe you should finish that thread on this particular theory of yours.

Well, that would probably be a good idea at some point. That is, assuming the thread isn't so covered in tar and feathers that what is currently there is still capable of being read without being mistaken for poultry.

[Sailor Star Dust]

Only thing I'll say about Kaworu, using a great quote (Bonus points to those who get the reference):

"A boy without a winkle! It's a miracle!" "That's not a boy without a winkle, it's a girl!" "So disappointed..."


The idea of Misato being a donor? No...just no. Who knows, maybe "Akira-hakase" brought her along to finally do some family bonding. :mrgreen:

[Ornette]

Blackadder, the Nursie

[Mr. Tines]

You don't normally take your daughter along on highly dangerous top secret missions.

FUYUTSUKI (OFF):
What is this child doing here?
Ikari, this is not a nursery school. Today is a crucial day!

[Katayoku no Tenshi]

The idea of Misato being a donor? No...just no. Who knows, maybe "Akira-hakase" brought her along to finally do some family bonding. :mrgreen:

I don't think we ever found out what happened to her mother after the divorce. Maybe after all the ... neglect (call it what you will) and the divorce. And everyone still says what a sweet guy he is. Maybe she had a breakdown and Misato had to live with him despite the dangers of his research.

She was certainly gone after 2I otherwise why would Misato live on, whatever ship that was.

"A boy without a winkle! It's a miracle!" "That's not a boy without a winkle, it's a girl!" "So disappointed..."

Blacadder II (Blackadder the Second). Nursie (Nurse to Elizabeth I) in Episode 1 Bells

"Out you popped, out of your mummie's tumkin and everybody shouting, "It's a boy, it's a boy!" And somebody said, "But it hasn't got a winkle!" And then I said "A boy without a winkle? God be praised, it's a miracle. A boy without a winkle!" And then Sir Thomas More pointed out that a boy without a winkle is a girl, and everyone was really disappointed."

Blackadder DVD FTW.

[Sailor Star Dust]

I thought the "he's a sweet guy" line applied to Gendou according to Yui??


And yes, Britcoms such as Blackadder rule. :mrgreen: (Reasons like this why PBS is your friend! ;))

[Katayoku no Tenshi]

Misato:
Shinji, yesterday you asked me why I joined Nerv.
My father was a man who lived for his research,
for his dreams, to the exclusion of all else.
I could never forgive him for that.
I even hated him.

Shinji (MONO):
Just like my father.

Misato:
He never took care of me, my mother or the family.
His friends always said he was very sensitive and delicate.But the truth was that he was just a weak person
running away from reality, the reality called his family.
He was like a kid.
I readily agreed with my mother when she decided to divorce him,
because she was always crying.
It seemed to have come as a shock to him,

I just found Dr. Nick's txt files, Infinatly useful. I was about to get my DVD and type everything out again. -_-;

Ok you're right they didn't say he was a sweet person I was ad libing. I should have picked different words.

[Trigger's Elysium]

Whoo~

So, in layman's terms, he's a product of the Contact Experiment, with Adam and an unknown dude who is presumably Dr. Katsuragi. So, he's still kind of an Angel, but he's a half human? I think I almost get it. <_<

[Nukie]

Whoo~

So, in layman's terms, he's a product of the Contact Experiment, with Adam and an unknown dude who is presumably Dr. Katsuragi. So, he's still kind of an Angel, but he's a half human? I think I almost get it. <_<

In a nutshell, human flesh with Adam's soul.

One question this topic reminds me of is Kaworu's personality. How did he end up with such a kind, gentle persona while Rei is withdrawn and anti-social? Was Kaworu's upbringing perhaps more humane? Or did he have this personality even while he was Adam?

[Anonymous_Evafan]

So, in layman's terms, he's a product of the Contact Experiment, with Adam and an unknown dude who is presumably Dr. Katsuragi. So, he's still kind of an Angel, but he's a half human? I think I almost get it. <_<

In a nutshell, human flesh with Adam's soul.

Kaworu is all human and all Angel. All humans on Earth are Angels. Genetically he his half Adam derived and half Lilith derived, or as Reichu calls him and EVA-01 a bridge entity.

One question this topic reminds me of is Kaworu's personality. How did he end up with such a kind, gentle persona while Rei is withdrawn and anti-social? Was Kaworu's upbringing perhaps more humane? Or did he have this personality even while he was Adam?

Well Lilith's soul was in multiple peices so that could account for Rei's withdrawn nature. Rei was also running from Lilith while Kaworu knew who his true-self was and accepted it. Though the exact reason is unknown.