Was every woman infertile at the time of 3I?

[Anonymous_Evafan]

This is why I think she's talking about Adam's Guf if there is such a thing.

The Evas do not intrinsically have souls,
but human souls reside within them.
They were all salvaged.
The only vessel that contained a soul was Rei.
She was the only one born with a soul.
The Chamber of Guf had been emptied, you see.

1. The Development of Eva (Eva no Kouzou)

C. Confidential Information

An Eva is a vessel for a soul that has abandoned human form, and a
magnification of the ego, i.e., the embodiment of a large human being.

Rei is a vessel for a soul as are the Evas. She isn't talking about Lilim in any way. The Guf she speaks of must be Adam's since the Evas are created from Adam. Rei happens to be a fluke. She was only born with a soul because she sucked in Lilith's somehow. There was never suposed to be a Rei Ayanami, Yui was suposed to be reborn instead, so linking her to the Lilim is barking up the wrong tree.

[InvaderRen]

please recall that the Evangelion

Clone of Adam and Lilith

Lillim souls. Lillim souls come from Lillith's Chamber, right?

They really didnt touch Adam's to create the evangelions, no?

[Anonymous_Evafan]

please recall that the Evangelion

Clone of Adam and Lilith

Um no, Lilith isn't mentioned as a source for the Eva series. EVA-01 is a special case.

Lillim souls. Lillim souls come from Lillith's Chamber, right?

Note the word salvaged. They took souls out of their original bodies and stuck them in the Evas.

They really didnt touch Adam's to create the evangelions, no?

Why would they be using Lilith's Guf on beings created from Adam? Further more how would they? Adam's Guf opened during 2I and Lilith's during 3I. So which one could possiblily be empty?

[InvaderRen]

Anon, please recall that Evangelions have bodies from Adam and souls from Lillim. Yes, they were salvaged, but they were still Lillim, no?

Chamer of Guf

Just to make sure we're on the same level

[Anonymous_Evafan]

You said clone of Adam and Lilith which is not the case. And yes I know what the Chamber of Guf is. The souls in the Evas already existed before the Evas were created, thus as far as we can tell there was no Guf involved. I'm not sure why you want to reach into the metaphysical domain to explain something that has perfectly logical social explainations. Not to mention it is implied childern are still being born while the Guf is suposedly empty, something that just isn't possible.

[InvaderRen]

we need a third person in here

[Ornette]

Ritsuko could be using that phrase as a metaphor. But I still don't know what she's trying to say.

[InvaderRen]

and a fourth...

[rurimoon]

One question, why is the Chamber of Guf empty when about 1/2 of mankind just die after 2I ? They vanish or something?

[cat42]

One question, why is the Chamber of Guf empty when about 1/2 of mankind just die after 2I ? They vanish or something?

I don't think souls get recycled. The chamber of Guf is reserved for unborn souls, so for a soul to return to it would imply reincarnation, which goes again Christian-Judeo beliefs.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

I don't think souls get recycled. The chamber of Guf is reserved for unborn souls, so for a soul to return to it would imply reincarnation, which goes again Christian-Judeo beliefs.

However this isn't a Christian show. I'm pretty sure souls can't be ripped apart in Christianity but it happens in NGE. Souls switching bodies and so on. We know for a fact souls linger in corpses from Misato and Ritsuko being in P3II before they went sploosh. It's never stated what happens to souls after that, so in truth we don't know. There just isn't enough information in this area to reach any conclusions about what the hell Ritsuko is talking about.

[Trigger's Elysium]

This topic is stupid...why or how would anyone possibly come to this conclusion?

(tl;dr'd the entire topic)

[cat42]

I don't think souls get recycled. The chamber of Guf is reserved for unborn souls, so for a soul to return to it would imply reincarnation, which goes again Christian-Judeo beliefs.

However this isn't a Christian show.

However, it is Christian-Judeo idea there in a manner that conforms more or less with the religious beliefs behind it. Ritsuko's speach supports this.

We know for a fact souls linger in corpses from Misato and Ritsuko being in P3II before they went sploosh.

Which is further evidence to disprove the reincarnation exsisting in Eva. Souls are split, and harvested, and moved from body to body, but I can think of no evidence where a soul is truly reborn.

[Reichu]

(can i have the Japanese passage for this? Im not great, but i know enough to figure things out if i need to)

"If you insist."

リツコ(OFF)「ここにあるのはダミー。そしてレイの為のただのパーツに過ぎないわ」
リツコ(OFF)「人は神様を拾ったので喜んで手に入れようとした。だからバチが当った。
それが15年前。せっかく拾った神様も消えてしまったわ。
でも今度は神様を自分たちで復活させようとしたの。それがアダム。
そしてアダムから神様に似せて人間を造った。
それがエヴァ」
シンジ(OFF)「人、人間なんですか？」
リツコ(OFF)「そう、人間なのよ。本来魂のないエヴァには、人の魂が宿らせてあるもの」
リツコ(OFF)「みんなサルベージされたものなの」
リツコ(OFF)「魂の入った容れ物はレイ、一人だけなの」
リツコ(OFF)「あの娘にしか魂は生まれなかったのよ」
リツコ(OFF)「ガフの部屋は空っぽになってたのよ」
リツコ(OFF)「ここに並ぶレイと同じものには魂がない。ただの容れ物なの」

Hmm, was it Fuzzy Chickens that called her mad?

Indeed it was.

I'm pretty sure souls can't be ripped apart in Christianity but it happens in NGE.

In Judaism (which is what we are really talking about here), souls are comprised of different components, the main ones being nefesh, ruach, and neshamah. And, no, they are not inseverible. See here.

[Reichu]

Oh yeah, BTW -- all this talk reminded me of this thread, which started to go into some interesting places IMO. The last thing kaos says encompassed one of my own sentiments (re: what Ritsuko meant by "The Chamber of Guf was empty"), but, strangely, I never got around to replying...

Check it out.

[goldentryst]

One question, why is the Chamber of Guf empty when about 1/2 of mankind just die after 2I ? They vanish or something?

I don't think souls get recycled. The chamber of Guf is reserved for unborn souls, so for a soul to return to it would imply reincarnation, which goes again Christian-Judeo beliefs.

Could someone explain in detail - but not so much that it's complicated - what the Chamber of Guf is? Is it where the soul of the unborn are, or where some of the souls of the dead go?

[Szmitten]

One question, why is the Chamber of Guf empty when about 1/2 of mankind just die after 2I ? They vanish or something?

I don't think souls get recycled. The chamber of Guf is reserved for unborn souls, so for a soul to return to it would imply reincarnation, which goes again Christian-Judeo beliefs.

Could someone explain in detail - but not so much that it's complicated - what the Chamber of Guf is? Is it where the soul of the unborn are, or where some of the souls of the dead go?

In terms of the actual Chamber of Guf it's a heaven-like place where souls of people are kept before they are born. You get born, you get one of these souls: religously this is a way to make people feel that they all have a purpose. The chamber isn't infinite though, it will run out of souls eventually. Supposedly the first child born without a soul (can be interpreted as a still-born baby) marks the coming of an armageddon/anti-christ/messiah/whatever.

[goldentryst]

One question, why is the Chamber of Guf empty when about 1/2 of mankind just die after 2I ? They vanish or something?

I don't think souls get recycled. The chamber of Guf is reserved for unborn souls, so for a soul to return to it would imply reincarnation, which goes again Christian-Judeo beliefs.

Could someone explain in detail - but not so much that it's complicated - what the Chamber of Guf is? Is it where the soul of the unborn are, or where some of the souls of the dead go?

In terms of the actual Chamber of Guf it's a heaven-like place where souls of people are kept before they are born. You get born, you get one of these souls: religously this is a way to make people feel that they all have a purpose. The chamber isn't infinite though, it will run out of souls eventually. Supposedly the first child born without a soul (can be interpreted as a still-born baby) marks the coming of an armageddon/anti-christ/messiah/whatever.

Oh I see so there are souls of people beforehand meaning it's -kind- of like a 'destiny' planned before they're born? In ReDestruction I think people say the Chamber was running out. Did it and was there a first child without a soul?

[Szmitten]

One question, why is the Chamber of Guf empty when about 1/2 of mankind just die after 2I ? They vanish or something?

I don't think souls get recycled. The chamber of Guf is reserved for unborn souls, so for a soul to return to it would imply reincarnation, which goes again Christian-Judeo beliefs.

Could someone explain in detail - but not so much that it's complicated - what the Chamber of Guf is? Is it where the soul of the unborn are, or where some of the souls of the dead go?

In terms of the actual Chamber of Guf it's a heaven-like place where souls of people are kept before they are born. You get born, you get one of these souls: religously this is a way to make people feel that they all have a purpose. The chamber isn't infinite though, it will run out of souls eventually. Supposedly the first child born without a soul (can be interpreted as a still-born baby) marks the coming of an armageddon/anti-christ/messiah/whatever.

Oh I see so there are souls of people beforehand meaning it's -kind- of like a 'destiny' planned before they're born? In ReDestruction I think people say the Chamber was running out. Did it and was there a first child without a soul?

Not in the context of Evangelion. I find the Chamber of Guf in Evangelion very odd and out of place since they don't take advantage of much of the original mythology about it.

[InvaderRen]

Like the emptying of the Chamber will herald the end of the world?

O wait, that happened...