Shin Eva Title Breakdown

[intermediateO]

So I actually tried my hand at making an Eva video for YouTube.

https://youtu.be/7Ops28EQoEM

A lot of it is stuff that most Evageeks will know already, but at the end of it I specifically get into something I have never seen discussed in Western or Japanese fandom.

For those who are too impatient to sit through the other stuff, the juicy stuff starts at 18:00.

I'd love to hear whether or not you agree with what I found.

[ShinjiStranglesAsuka]

Great vid, thanks for sharing.

[BusterMachine4]

Nice analysis, dude! You said some interesting stuff here.

I know the loop theory has been pretty much dismissed here, but I'd say it actually gives some unexpected credence to that ancient idea. It would be interesting if the Third Impact in EoE actually caused a three-way split in the timeline. One timeline led to permanent Instrumentality (25+26), another timeline led to Instrumentality being undone (EoE), and a third timeline led to the universe being rebooted with major changes (Rebuilds). Those three timelines could potentially be the "Thrice Upon a Time" referred to in the title, and a callback to the comments in 26 about how there are many possibilities for Shinji.

[PenPenSakura]

Hi

I made an account to comment on your video (^o^)
Sorry for any spelling and lore/theory mistakes in advance

Very interesting theory on the repeat 1.0 repeat 2.0

The only problem I have with that is how it doesn't apply consistently to :3.0 + 1.0. (edit: I went through your post and realized you were basing it on the next movie being a second half of 3.0)

Playing the original + (1.0) is a very interesting theory and explains why Kaworu focused on "this time". But it's also odd how only he can retain each repeat's memory (or someone is holding back).(+1.0) being a new iteration does not feel very "final" unless they somehow prevent NERV + SEELE completely right away or enter the ideal version of instrumentality for Shinji?

I personally thought thrice upon a time was
1. TV series
2. Death and rebirth + EoE
3. Rebuild

(With the moral of the story being "running away from the problem doesn't fix the situation", "being an individual is important, but so is acting for the better of those around you + society", and "don't be blinded by the chase for happiness while making uninformed decisions". Kaworu was able to retain his memory because of his direct tie to Adam and thus FAR. I really think SEELE has more to do with FAR than just discovering the scrolls. [Gendo said they have transformed their soul for chase of their ideal existence, wouldn't that make them FAR looking for a way to live on? He also thanked them for giving human civilization])


(The story has many plot elements that involves a timeline prior to Shinji being a pilot. How I would love to be a fly on the for SEELE's plotting/IPEA and the Ikaris' family dynamic. This makes me wish the movie was 4.0 + 0.0 LOL)

[intermediateO]

Great vid, thanks for sharing.

Nice analysis, dude! You said some interesting stuff here.

I made an account to comment on your video (^o^)

Thank you !

It would be interesting if the Third Impact in EoE actually caused a three-way split in the timeline. One timeline led to permanent Instrumentality (25+26), another timeline led to Instrumentality being undone (EoE), and a third timeline led to the universe being rebooted with major changes (Rebuilds). Those three timelines could potentially be the "Thrice Upon a Time" referred to in the title, and a callback to the comments in 26 about how there are many possibilities for Shinji.

I personally thought thrice upon a time was
1. TV series
2. Death and rebirth + EoE
3. Rebuild

These are possible, but personally, I believe that the Rebuild movies are gonna be completely separate from the original series. I think that they may just reveal that the first timeline (not the repeat timeline that the movies have shown) was very similar to the original series. That way, both old fans can enjoy imagining how this series overlapped with the original, while they can also avoid alienating all of the new fans that they made who were just following the new movies. They kinda went backwards on this with the third film, but they said they intended the Rebuilds to be more accessible and easier to understand, so connecting it directly to the old series doesn't make much sense to me.

I just realized that I should have titled the first two timelines Once Upon a Time and Twice Upon a Time.

So basically-
Once Upon A Time- 1.0, 2.0, 3.0
A story that hasn't been shown in the Rebuilds, but parallels the original series. This would also explain the Sundress Asuka and Hospital Asuka that appear in the until You come to me. music video. She's still Asuka Shikinami, just her story was basically the same as Sohryu in the first timeline.
Twice Upon a Time- :1.0, :2.0, :3.0
The current repeated timeline we have been watching.
Thrice Upon a Time- Shin Eva
A new beginning, probably attained by rejecting to repeat again, and instead moving forward to what's next.

[BusterMachine4]

These are possible, but personally, I believe that the Rebuild movies are gonna be completely separate from the original series. I think that they may just reveal that the first timeline (not the repeat timeline that the movies have shown) was very similar to the original series. That way, both old fans can enjoy imagining how this series overlapped with the original, while they can also avoid alienating all of the new fans that they made who were just following the new movies. They kinda went backwards on this with the third film, but they said they intended the Rebuilds to be more accessible and easier to understand, so connecting it directly to the old series doesn't make much sense to me.

Anno may have intended to make the series accessible to new fans originally, but like many of his early Rebuild goals (like making it more optimistic and less psychological, for example), it seemingly fell to the wayside as Anno got more of a grip on what he wanted the new movies to be like. I think that anyone who's watching the Rebuilds has plenty of time to watch the original show as well, so why wouldn't Anno acknowledge the originals? If they introduced a timeline that was almost exactly like the original show, but still being a separate timeline, I would find that to be a cop-out that prevents the final movie from really tying the entire franchise together. The tagline of the final movie is "Goodbye, all of Evangelion," and I would hope that they take that tagline to its fullest extent.

[intermediateO]

Anno may have intended to make the series accessible to new fans originally, but like many of his early Rebuild goals (like making it more optimistic and less psychological, for example), it seemingly fell to the wayside as Anno got more of a grip on what he wanted the new movies to be like. I think that anyone who's watching the Rebuilds has plenty of time to watch the original show as well, so why wouldn't Anno acknowledge the originals? If they introduced a timeline that was almost exactly like the original show, but still being a separate timeline, I would find that to be a cop-out that prevents the final movie from really tying the entire franchise together. The tagline of the final movie is "Goodbye, all of Evangelion," and I would hope that they take that tagline to its fullest extent.

I definitely wouldn't be super surprised if that is what he goes with.

It's just that the last he's ever said on the matter points to him not doing that. The plan could have definitely changed in the past 9 years, but surprisingly, one of the only things he has commented on in these 9 years is that he still wants to make Eva a pillar of anime that other creators can tackle and build off of like Gundam. This was one of the main driving forcing to starting production in 2006 on Rebuild, and for the Khara 10th anniversary exhibit he restated that goal.

Personally, I feel like he already achieved that goal with 2.0, which felt like a huge step forward for a "new" Eva, so maybe he really has just decided to go all out and do whatever crazy thing he wants with Shin Eva, knowing that Eva is pretty much financially bulletproof, so whatever he does, it can't really ruin it for whoever tackles Eva next.




And this is actually something I was thinking of making a future video about, but there are some other anime that share some staff to the Rebuilds, and that have come out after 3.0, that seem to eerily mirror a lot of stuff only hinted at in the Rebuilds, stuff that fans have been theorizing about for years. One of these properties literally does the Once Upon A Time timeline trick that I mentioned.

[PenPenSakura]

They kinda went backwards on this with the third film, but they said they intended the Rebuilds to be more accessible and easier to understand, so connecting it directly to the old series doesn't make much sense to me.

All the new fans I brought into the franchise with rebuild were into the series for the visual animation and how Shinji always messes up haha. Also, enough time has passed by since the first release so they have all watched the previous TV and movies. So this would be their third run as well.

This would also explain the Sundress Asuka and Hospital Asuka that appear in the until You come to me. music video. She's still Asuka Shikinami, just her story was basically the same as Sohryu in the first timeline.

Until you come to me is not canon? I thought it was made by someone in Khara as a fan work and just happened to get Sagisu's music? It would be odd for it to be canon without Anno and be released that early.

[Lacissal]

Thank you for you excellent video! There was a very interesting piece on information on the titles in the 2.0 Complete Record Collections interviews, where they said that initially Jo-Ha-Kyu were chosen without much deeper meaning than 'part 1,2 or act 1,2 etc' but during the development of the second film Anno became increasingly fascinated by the word/concept of 'break' for Ha and how to apply it to Eva, so you can see how this kind of consideration then carries over to Kyu/Q and 'quickening' being both a close translation of kyu and the English term for the first movements of the fetus in the womb. I suppose it's like 'Evangelion' being unrelated to the Hebrew Eve/Eva ('born from Adam') but the double meaning still works.

[intermediateO]

Until you come to me is not canon? I thought it was made by someone in Khara as a fan work and just happened to get Sagisu's music? It would be odd for it to be canon without Anno and be released that early.

It isn't canon per say, but it definitely means something. I wouldn't call it a fan work though, since it was made professionally and under the supervision of the original creators.

And I meant to mention this in the video too, but when the CD version of until You come to me.'s music was finally released, Sagisu said both the song and the visuals where made from the unused ending of 3.0.

[khronos]

So I actually tried my hand at making an Eva video for YouTube.

https://youtu.be/7Ops28EQoEM

A lot of it is stuff that most Evageeks will know already, but at the end of it I specifically get into something I have never seen discussed in Western or Japanese fandom.

For those who are too impatient to sit through the other stuff, the juicy stuff starts at 18:00.

I'd love to hear whether or not you agree with what I found.

I agree, I don’t believe the rebuild movies are directly connected to the original series. I think Anno just wanted to say that he revisited his old work and he’s ready to give it a new meaning in contrast to the earlier “ending” (End of Evangelion) with a “new beginning” (Thrice upon a time).

Ps: btw, I disagree with the interpretation that there were a 1.0/2.0/3.0. I think the original series was the “once upon a time”, with EoE being “the end”, the first three rebuilds, “twice upon a time” and, for the sake of a more hopeful final chapter, the last that was meant to be “the end” actually received the name of Thrice upon a time or “a new beginning” which does make sense parting from Shinji’s isolated role in :3.0 to a different beginning, +1.0 (the plus here sounds like the hopeful beginning I was talking about).

In the end, the titles are meaningful to Anno and his state of mind IMHO. Not really connected to theories like the loop one.

[robersora]

Kind of unrelated, but I just remembered, that Einstein's space-time is often called 3+1 dimensional time. (3 for space 1 for time)
Might be a coincidence, but 3.0+1.0 is pretty peciluar, so maybe not?

[Thesufferingpumpkin]

There was debate with the Japanese title on whether it was an end symbol || or a repeat symbol : | |

From all the recent activity on twitter it seems that it’s highlighted as || an end symbol

[Pluto]

Your video was really interesting and informative. I also liked how you brought in the Japanese linguistic breakdown.

Thank you for your effort!
お疲れ様です！