Star Wars Episode II - A New Thread

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Re: Star Wars Episode II - A New Thread

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Postby Gus Hanson » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:24 pm

The first way that I saw Return of the Jedi was through the purchase of the 1997 Special Edition VHS so I did not bear witness to the Yub Nub song until decades later. Personally, I found the changes such as the beak for the Sarlacc and the alteration to the ending music to be for the better although I could certainly do without Sy Snootles and whatever the frick that other creature doing the duet with her was. As for my feelings as to whether as a whole if Jedi holds out better than Empire, I would say Empire is a tough act to follow no matter what the project would turn out to be but it did an admirable effort.
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Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:32 am

View Original PostSachi wrote:Rogue One is the best Star Wars films since Empire.

Rogue one is a technically bad movie with two really bad first acts. It also makes a mockery of Vader. It's enjoyable thanks to the third, but it's not even a good movie.
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Postby kuribo-04 » Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:11 am

View Original PostAsuka'sBigBrother wrote:Rogue one is a technically bad movie with two really bad first acts. It also makes a mockery of Vader. It's enjoyable thanks to the third, but it's not even a good movie.

What do you mean with it being a mockery of Vader?
He shows up saying and doing typical Vader stuff imo.
I don't even think his inclusion was forced like many people say.
If Rogue One was a movie about the average people of the Star Wars world, ending it with nameless soldiers confronting a force far greater than them, but still outsmarting him, seems fitting to me.
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Postby Sachi » Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:27 am

View Original PostAsuka'sBigBrother wrote:Rogue one is a technically bad movie with two really bad first acts. It also makes a mockery of Vader. It's enjoyable thanks to the third, but it's not even a good movie.

What's technically wrong with it? Can you see the boom mic on screen somewhere? Can you see extras in the background? Your phrasing makes it seem like it fails on this front, when the film is technically very well put together and beautiful. You just don't like the choices made with it.

Also, none of that contradicts what I said. R1 is the best since Empire. That's a relative comparison. Even if you think R1 is a bad film, you have to consider that they're all bad films.
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Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:28 am

View Original PostSachi wrote:What's technically wrong with it? Can you see the boom mic on screen somewhere? Can you see extras in the background? Your phrasing makes it seem like it fails on this front, when the film is technically very well put together and beautiful. You just don't like the choices made with it.

Also, none of that contradicts what I said. R1 is the best since Empire. That's a relative comparison. Even if you think R1 is a bad film, you have to consider that they're all bad films.

It's technically bad because the acting is bad, and the dialogue is meh.The characters are lifeless with the robot having the most charisma. And nah, I don't because

A. ROTJ had vastly superior dialogue and acting.
B. TLJ had vastly more meaningful cinematography, vastly superior dialogue, had a far more powerful thematic message, and vastly better performances.
C. ROTS had more powerful moments and a far stronger story despite similarly eh execution

On'y films I'd place it above are tpm and aotc, and off course tfa, the film that rendered the saga before pointless and offers nothing new to the franchise. When you make a reboot of a sequel, it doesn't matter how tightly executed it is. A well executed bit of nothing is still nothing.

View Original Postkuribo-04 wrote:What do you mean with it being a mockery of Vader?
He shows up saying and doing typical Vader stuff imo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRPeCp3X9tI

-> Vader thinking he was on a family guy sw parody

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UinaxxXXt40

-> Far too flashy and crowded for someone as methodical and cold as Vader. Vader doesn't make a million twists of his weapon, he makes one or two, or simply uses a gesture. That's what makes him iconic.
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Postby kuribo-04 » Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:37 am

I dunno, that joke seemed pretty Vader to me.

"Apology accepted, Captain Needa"
While he chokes Needa to death.
That was in Empire.
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Postby Sachi » Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:14 am

By going through the exercise of invoking the other films and their qualities in comparison to Rogue One, you satisfied my hunger for consideration on such matters. Thank you.
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Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:45 pm

View Original Postkuribo-04 wrote:I dunno, that joke seemed pretty Vader to me.

"Apology accepted, Captain Needa"
While he chokes Needa to death.
That was in Empire.

That's not a pun...
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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:14 pm

View Original Postkuribo-04 wrote:I dunno, that joke seemed pretty Vader to me.

"Apology accepted, Captain Needa"
While he chokes Needa to death.
That was in Empire.

Vader's puns were unfortunately the best part of Rogue One. "Don't choke on your aspirations" :facepalm:
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Postby Sachi » Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:18 am

There are bad puns, and then there are good puns. Vader's line is a really good pun. Not only does "aspiration" apply to Krennic's ambition, which is his major character flaw, "aspiration" also literally means to draw breath. While Krennic is sowing the seeds of his own failure, he's also literally choking on his own breath. That one line not only says a lot about Krennic, but also shows the dynamic between Vader and other imperial officers. Other imperials aren't sure what to think about Vader, but they see that he's close to the emperor, so they try to warm up to him; Vader on the other hand holds them in contempt for that very reason, the constant ladder-climbing and brown-nosing instead of being competent officers.
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Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:21 am

In other context the pun would be nice, but it just doesn't work when it's vader making that kind of joke. In the end, it's basically a high level dad joke, Vader does not make dad jokes.

I can forgive that line, even the action scene. But I can't how weak the cast's performances were. Think this says it well:
https://youtu.be/t9-pTStLGGo?t=1m48s
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:31 am

Vader is kind of all over the board in Star Wars. In PM Anikin is a happy-go-lucky kid, in AotC he’s all mopey, in RotS he’s all angry, then in RO he’s cracking dark jokes while killing people. In NH he’s formidable, and then in ESB he’s back to cracking dark jokes again. In RotJ he’s more of a tragic character. The whole thing is overall really weird, especially when you realize that his most consistent character development was in the prequels.

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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:38 am

^ Where he bitched about how much he hates sand...
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Postby Glor » Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:25 am

View Original PostAsuka'sBigBrother wrote:I can forgive that line, even the action scene. But I can't how weak the cast's performances were. Think this says it well:
https://youtu.be/t9-pTStLGGo?t=1m48s
I freaking love this, haha. "Suicide Squad: An Unnecessary Star Wars Story"
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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:45 am

View Original PostGlor wrote:I freaking love this, haha. "Suicide Squad: An Unnecessary Star Wars Story"

Honest Trailers, always worth a laugh or three. IIRC, didn't that video describe the movie as "bad fanfiction" which is probably the best description it could fit, filling in a plot hole no one cares about.
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Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:25 am

*expensive fan fiction
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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:21 am

^ To the tune of $200 million according to IMDB and Wikipedia. It'd be nice if the studio dropped that much money on good SW fanfiction, like, idk, not something to do with the Death Star.
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Postby kuribo-04 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:20 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:In NH he’s formidable, and then in ESB he’s back to cracking dark jokes again. In RotJ he’s more of a tragic character


Never thought about this. I always saw him as the same.
Makes sense that he would be different with different writers/directors.
The ESB one is the "standard Vader" to me I guess, because it's one of my favourite films and I've watched it so often.
I think the change to RotJ fits a lot though, just for the tone.
Maybe Vader knew he was nearing his end...

@DarkBluePhoenix:
It'd be nice if the studio dropped that much money on good SW fanfiction, like, idk, not something to do with the Death Star.


I don't think the plot matters much in making a movie good or bad.
Rogue One had some issues, but not because of the Death Star centered plot.
And why wouldn't they base the films around things we know? I think that elevates the potential for spectator engagement.

IMO RO was pretty good.
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Postby Chuckman » Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:18 pm

Somebody at Disney should lay down a directive that while Darth Vader may appear again in a story of the appropriate era, he can never speak in any future films. No jokes, no threats, nothing. His story has been fully explored. There's so much to do with Star Wars, they don't need to keep going back to the same well over and over again. Plus, James Earl Jones is not immortal and replacing his iconic voice would be a profound mistake.

His appearance in Rogue One would have been perfect if he'd had no dialogue, only appearing as a relentless, unstoppable force of evil that cannot be defeated, only escaped.
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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:40 pm

^ Yes but Disney likes bleeding those rocks dry, don't they? And when James Earl Jones dies, they'll just synthesize the poor man's voice using existing audio. As we can already tell from the plans Disney has, besides Rian Johnson new trilogy, the majority of what they're doing isn't going to take any risks, we'll see familiar characters in their respective back story films, and little expansion of what is a massive, yet untapped, universe.
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