Do we HAVE to hate AWL?

[KhakiBlueThunderSocks]

I've seen a lot of people...about 99.98% of this forum, really bash AWL on her work with Eva...is she really that bad? I don't honestly think so.

::waits for the rotten tomatoes::

I mean, this was a pretty difficult project to work on--one of the most complex projects in the history of anime. I think we should, honestly, give her credit for at least bringing Eva to the states and doing the best job she could with it!

Granted, she did make a couple of missteps with the movies--(Come on, were the splooshing sounds really necessary, and the Chamber of Guf scene in the movie was kinda lackluster) but in the long run, she DID do a pretty darn good job overall.

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

I mean, this was a pretty difficult project to work on--one of the most complex projects in the history of anime. I think we should, honestly, give her credit for at least bringing Eva to the states and doing the best job she could with it!

Well, in that a dub was actually made, mission accomplished. However, I think it's time for someone to trot out that artisitc integrity thread at this time. "It sounded like a gunshot". Of course it sounded like a gunshot!

[The Eva Monkey]

I think it's time for someone to trot out that artisitc integrity thread at this time.

Why do I get the feeling that that was directed at me?

Seriously khakisox, AWL could at best be described as disrepectful to the works that she adapts into English. I can't be civil where she's concerned, because I feel she's maimed Evangelion too much. And I really shouldn't get bent out of shape over a dub that I don't have to watch.

If you want a perfect example of how ignorant AWL and friends can be, there is no better case study than this one, which spells out the ignorance better than I ever could:

http://www.evamonkey.com/gunshot.mov

[Nukie]

I really love her as a voice actress. Not just in Eva, but in other things I've seen her in. Her voice is very distinct and I think fit Rei pretty well.

Her directing skills, on the other hand...

[slothen]

wtf is AWL?

[Evangelion Oi!]

wtf is AWL?

Amanda winn lee [A-man-da ]
she directed and wrote the script form the english dub of eva also she did the voice for Rei and yui
shes been in a lot too i think she did the voice for Miss Deep in ROD

[slothen]

wrote the script?
directed?

what the hell... dont you just translate and replace the voices? what directing is there to do?

[BobBQ]

Adapting an anime series for English dubbing invovles translating the Japanese dialogue, then writing out an English script which, in a best-case scenario, gets the general idea across while using whatever words and phrases best match the mouth animations. The problem is that translations are easily botched or worse, mutilated in order to fit a target audience or moral standard other than that the series was intended for. 4Kids Entertainment is particularly gulty of the latter offense.

Mangle^H^HManga Entertainment did something equally annoying with the dub of the original Ghost in the Shell film, adding a lot of unneeded expletives to the dialogue because they thought it didn't sound "adult" enough as it was.

And then there are series where the voices don't match the characters' ages or just plain don't fit. Frankly, the only English dubs I've ever been able to put up with were the ones for Akira and Ghost in the Shell: SAC.

Ooh, it makes me mad.

[slothen]

so... it would probobly be worth it to find the subbed versions of ep 1-26 then. :oops:

i can't find a dubbed version of SAC second gig, but i recently watched the dubbed first gig, and it was damned good.

[The Eva Monkey]

so... it would probobly be worth it to find the subbed versions of ep 1-26 then. :oops:

I'm going to embarass myself, but I actually didn't see Evangelion subbed for years after collecting it on dubbed VHS. It wasn't until Platinum volume 5 came out that I sat down and watched through the Platinum DVDs, and then the episodes on the DC DVDs, and then Death and The End of Evangelion to see the entire series subbed in sequence. And even though I had seen it many times in dub, watching it in sub was like watching it for the first time. The raw emotions in the performances of the Japanese cast were so powerful that it was as impactful or even more impactful than it was the first time around in dub. Evangelion in Japanese and Evangelion in English are like night and day. It really is like watching an entirely different show. And through my jaded anger and sarcasm and pure unadulterated dub bashing is the sincere hope that everyone makes the honest and genuine attempt to sit down and watch Evangelion in its original Japanese.

[Quiddity]

I've seen a lot of people...about 99.98% of this forum, really bash AWL on her work with Eva...is she really that bad? I don't honestly think so.

::waits for the rotten tomatoes::

I mean, this was a pretty difficult project to work on--one of the most complex projects in the history of anime.

Yes, but you can turn around and say that she was lucky to get the opportunity to work on it. Difficult? Yes. But also very fulfilling as well to get the opportunity to work on such a masterpiece.

I think we should, honestly, give her credit for at least bringing Eva to the states and doing the best job she could with it!

Well she didn't bring Eva to the states. ADV/Manga did. And if they didn't, someone else would have. Don't make it sound like if it wasn't for her, it wouldn't be here. It would be here, and probably would have been handled better.


The reason I hold AWL in such contempt is because while she's in the powerful and very important position of being a director on anime dubs, the fact is that she doesn't have the adequate knowledge of the subject matter to do it properly. End of Evangelion, and the commentary on the DVD is proof enough of that. Its insulting to me as an anime fan and a fan of the Japanese language when Amanda Winn Lee says that the Japanese language doesn't have a word for "I". So what then to 'Watashi', 'Watakushi', 'Atashi', 'Ore' and 'Boku' mean, Amanda? C'mon! I don't expect you to know complex kanji or anything, but I would hope that the woman would have at least some basic knowledge of Japanese after all the experience she has working on anime dubs. Heck, the woman doesn't even know the difference between kanji and katakana as shown on the commentary.

And did you know that the true message about Eva was sex? No, you didn't know either? Cause thats what AWL taught me!

AWL gets a lot of flac because she deserves it. She's an embarresment. No two ways around it. As a huge dub fan, I have been completely turned off from the Eva dub, much in part thanks to her.

[KhakiBlueThunderSocks]

Heck, the woman doesn't even know the difference between kanji and katakana as shown on the commentary.

To be honest, I don't know the difference between the two! Any person on the street or any random anime fan WOULDN'T know the difference right off hand.

It would be here, and probably would have been handled better.

Yeah, right. I'm pretty darn sure that, regardless of whoever got their hands on the Eva dub, there's going to be some group of people out there who's still going to say "It sucks!" just like you guys are doing to AWL.

It could just be me, but I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. I have a feeling that, no matter who did the dubbed version, nobody would be fully satisfied with the end result because Eva is that complex and has different meanings to different people. When we watch a dubbed anime, we're subject to one person's interpretation (Sp?) of the anime. In this case, we were subject to AWL's version of NGE, and I think it's cool. It's not quite "Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan", but it's not "Star Trek: The Motion Picture" either. (Trekkie fans will catch this analogy)

[Quiddity]

To be honest, I don't know the difference between the two! Any person on the street or any random anime fan WOULDN'T know the difference right off hand.

The problem being in that AWL tries to come off as an expert of Japanese language in that commentary (at least thats the impression I was given) when she fails to understand even the most basic points, things that you would know after one class of Japanese. You would figure as one directing Japanese anime dubs she'd get at least a rudementary understanding, but I guess not.

Yeah, right. I'm pretty darn sure that, regardless of whoever got their hands on the Eva dub, there's going to be some group of people out there who's still going to say "It sucks!" just like you guys are doing to AWL.

Well I'm sure of that, as there are plenty of dub haters out there. But I'm a big dub fan, there are multiple animes out there that I admit without hesitation that the dub is better than the sub in my eyes (Cowboy Bebop, Key the Metal Idol for starters). And even I think that they did a horrible job with the Eva dub, the movies in particular.

It could just be me, but I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. I have a feeling that, no matter who did the dubbed version, nobody would be fully satisfied with the end result because Eva is that complex and has different meanings to different people. When we watch a dubbed anime, we're subject to one person's interpretation (Sp?) of the anime. In this case, we were subject to AWL's version of NGE, and I think it's cool. It's not quite "Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan", but it's not "Star Trek: The Motion Picture" either. (Trekkie fans will catch this analogy)

[/quote]

The problem is that AWL's so called 'version of NGE' is the only english spoken version we have, so those out there like me, who happen to enjoy dubs a lot unfortunately have to ignore it entirely because she botched it so bad. I would LOVE to watch Evangelion dubbed rather than be distracted by the subtitles. Unfortunately I can't do that because the dub was so poor and someone who shall remain nameless decided that at certain parts of the movie, they knew how to handle the scene better than Anno and inserted things that shouldn't have been there...

[cat42]

Heck, the woman doesn't even know the difference between kanji and katakana as shown on the commentary.

To be honest, I don't know the difference between the two! Any person on the street or any random anime fan WOULDN'T know the difference right off hand.

Quite possibly true about most anime fans, however, she's not just an anime fan, she's some who's business revolves around Japanese animation. After years in the business, would she not pick something small like That the Japanese have several words of "I", or that they have multiple writing systems?

It would be here, and probably would have been handled better.

Yeah, right. I'm pretty darn sure that, regardless of whoever got their hands on the Eva dub, there's going to be some group of people out there who's still going to say "It sucks!" just like you guys are doing to AWL.

You're probably right here...

It could just be me, but I like to give people the benefit of the doubt....When we watch a dubbed anime, we're subject to one person's interpretation (Sp?)

I didn't realize that slaps were up for interpretation...

It's not quite "Star Trek: The Motion Picture", it's not even "Star Trek: The Animated Series"!. (Serious Trekkie fans will catch this analogy)

Fixed

[The Eva Monkey]

I didn't realize that slaps were up for interpretation...

They're not...

[KhakiBlueThunderSocks]

In their (English Dub creators) defense, this was possibly done before they knew that the directors cut even existed.

I only just found out about the whole slap/gunshot thing a few months ago. My theory is they didn't know that Asuka was actually slapping Shinji in an alternate version of the show. They just assumed it was a gunshot because we see Misato pick up a gun, and after Kaji delivers his last line, the screen goes blank. Any random person, (Not just an anime fan) would think "Hey, that girl must have shot that guy." thus the gunshot comes into play. I think it was a cointoss decision.

It's not quite "Star Trek: The Motion Picture", it's not even "Star Trek: The Animated Series"!. (Serious Trekkie fans will catch this analogy)

Hardy, har, har...my point was that in essense, it's more like "Star Trek III: The Search For Spock" or "Star Trek: Insurrection."-- it was well done, but it lacks something and maybe could've been better.

[cat42]

Hardy, har, har...my point was that in essense, it's more like "Star Trek III: The Search For Spock" or "Star Trek: Insurrection."-- it was well done, but it lacks something and maybe could've been better.

I'd compare the English dub more to Hideo Nakata's Ringu, the story had great potential, and another director proved it could be excelent, but this version sadly had an inept director.

[KhakiBlueThunderSocks]

Hardy, har, har...my point was that in essense, it's more like "Star Trek III: The Search For Spock" or "Star Trek: Insurrection."-- it was well done, but it lacks something and maybe could've been better.

I'd compare the English dub more to Hideo Nakata's Ringu, the story had great potential, and another director proved it could be excelent, but this version sadly had an inept director.

You just described "Star Trek VI: The Final Frontier"--Shatner is a great actor, but a crappy director...I wouldn't compare Shatner to AWL if you paid me! She's a much better director, and I still say she did the best she could with what she was given.

[cat42]

...Shatner is a great actor...

... Not really.. Capt. Kirk and Denny Crane just happen to be perfect for him, but I haven't seen Shatner give much in the way of range...

EDIT===

And yes, Shatner us a better director AND actor than AWL (ok... well director at least)

[AuthenticM]

And through my jaded anger and sarcasm and pure unadulterated dub bashing is the sincere hope that everyone makes the honest and genuine attempt to sit down and watch Evangelion in its original Japanese.

I did that once. I've watched Evangelion 5 times now (series + movies). The first two were in English, the third in French (btw, french dub > english dub [mostly]), the fourth in Japanese and the last in French again.

I can assure everybody here that when Monkey says that the english dub is fucking terrible, that's because it is. Although the french dub is good (Gendo really sounds like a cold bastard here, unlike in English...), the Japanese dub totally eclipses the other three (the spanish dub is... weird). Next time I watch Eva, it'll probably be in Japanese. And since I hate having to read fucking subs, I intend on taking Japanese courses in the near future. That way, not only will I be able to actually understand Eva, but I'll be able to get myself an Asian chick! Two birds with one stone!