3.0: Kaworu Lives in the SDAT Player

[pwhodges]

The same holds for the new continuity, unless Nerv just left the LCL in the plug for fourteen years.

Don't see why they shouldn't, especially as they left the plug in place; but it's irrelevant. We have after all seen Shinji core diving to rescue Rei at the end of Ha, and he and Rei were clearly together (intertwined, even) after that. And if Rei is stated to be in Unit-01 (meaning the core), it's pretty clear as a consequence that Shinji was there too until Wille extracted him, or more likely Rei/Yui/Unit-01 threw him out (remember, Wille didn't expect to get him back, so the agency for his return may well have come from elsewhere).

Why throw him out? They know he still has a life to live or a destiny to fulfill.

[TheAdmiral]

He was clearly in Unit 01's core, as that's where he emerged at the end of the episode. The same holds for the new continuity, unless Nerv just left the LCL in the plug for fourteen years. Seems unlikely to me.

-You're right, he does seem to emerge from the core, I was watching it just now. Very interesting symbolism right there. It was also a 32 day process, with one additional day to close that chapter, so 33 days. I wonder where they got that notion from?

Not quite. He said Kyoko was hiding, so it's less her relinquishing control than him taking advantage of the fact that she's checked out for the time being. But regardless I don't think you can meaningfully compare what he did there to anything we're talking about re: the new movies.

-Whether it's the original series or NTE, they have one thing in common: they're both storylines with powerful allegorical symbolism, everything seems to have been constructed around that. The technical details are of secondary consideration. Figure out the allegory and things will start to make more sense ;)

[Tabby-chan]

[quote="TheAdmiral#795183"]-You're right, he does seem to emerge from the core, I was watching it just now. Very interesting symbolism right there. It was also on the 33rd day that he emerged, I wonder where they got that notion from?

It's interesting to hear all these points when I leave the post alone for a few hours. I'm actually really quite amazed.

I think Bagheera pretty much outruled Kaworu living in the SDAT player, when he mentioned that

SDAT Players don’t have cores, and it really stretches my imagination to think that Rei or Kaworu would place their soul inside the spindle, the magnetic head, or the audio jack of a listening device.

.

But you guys leave me wondering, then, why Shinji could hear Rei's voice while holding the player right before Unit-Mark.09 breaks in (literally) to Wille. We can't just pretend it was some sort of telepathy or that he was remembering something. It has to be there for a reason. And why right then, when he picks it up? Why not at any other point before then? We don't have any similar instance in the film where he "hears" someone's voice without it actually happening. I'm compelled to believe that Rei exists in the player at the beginning of the film. But in any case, unless Kaworu could force Rei out of it, he couldn't exist in it after fixing it...unless Rei's soul somehow left the player when it broke, which is absurd to me.

Hmm. A soul existing in the player? I believe it, though hardly. But Kaworu existing in it? Not so much. I find this harder and harder to buy.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, LCL is a liquid that provides oxygen to the lungs. We have to assume that it's still a liquid, however, and just because people can breathe in it doesn't make it air. How does the player still work despite this? Granted, I'm too young to have been there for the bulk of player tapes and whatnot, so maybe those getting wet isn't a big deal, but I'm still confused there. How does the thing even still work?

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

^ I would think that if Rei was in the SDAT Player, then we would be hearing her voice more often than just the scene where we did since Shinji carried that thing around him wherever he went in Eva Q. My personal pet theory is that the voice we heard was Rei II, and that Shinji can hear her (perhaps telepathically) when he’s in closer proximity to Unit 01. This would also explain why he couldn’t hear it when he was taken away from Unit 01 and Wille by Rei Q.

But then, Rei Q’s sudden appearance right next to Shinji after he heard the voice would be more difficult to explain under those circumstances if it wasn’t Rei Q’s voice Shinji heard instead of Rei II’s voice. (Rei Q asks where Shinji is, Shinji answers, and then she just shows up. Simple as that.) But if it was Rei Q’s voice, then that omits the possibility of Shinji hearing Rei II's voice from either the SDAT Player or Unit 01.

Honestly many parts of Eva Q might have as many interpretations as there are people interpreting it until Eva Shin gives us at least a little more to gather around and think about. But as far as theories go, the voice from the SDAT Player theory is the least likely in my mind.

Also, pretty much any electronic device that doesn’t have a screen display or any computer circuitry is more likely to dry out and be just as playable as it was before, just so long as it wasn’t running a live electrical current while it was wet, or if the AA/AAA batteries weren’t destroyed in the process as well.

[Tabby-chan]

^ I would think that if Rei was in the SDAT Player, then we would be hearing her voice more often than just the scene where we did since Shinji carried that thing around him wherever he went in Eva Q. My personal pet theory is that the voice we heard was Rei II, and that Shinji can hear her (perhaps telepathically) when he’s in closer proximity to Unit 01. This would also explain why he couldn’t hear it when he was taken away from Unit 01 and Wille by Rei Q.

But then, Rei Q’s sudden appearance right next to Shinji after he heard the voice would be more difficult to explain under those circumstances if it wasn’t Rei Q’s voice Shinji heard instead of Rei II’s voice. (Rei Q asks where Shinji is, Shinji answers, and then she just shows up. Simple as that.) But if it was Rei Q’s voice, then that omits the possibility of Shinji hearing Rei II's voice from either the SDAT Player or Unit 01.

Honestly many parts of Eva Q might have as many interpretations as there are people interpreting it until Eva Shin gives us at least a little more to gather around and think about. But as far as theories go, the voice from the SDAT Player theory is the least likely in my mind.

Also, pretty much any electronic device that doesn’t have a screen display or any computer circuitry is more likely to dry out and be just as playable as it was before, just so long as it wasn’t running a live electrical current while it was wet, or if the AA/AAA batteries weren’t destroyed in the process as well.

Hmm, interesting. I'd love to see a map of the Wunder, just for reference. Evidently, the medical room is right by the righthand side (someone please tell me starboard from the other one) of the AAA Wunder near the wing, which is considerably further from Unit-01 than the main Bridge. Why Shinji would be able to hear Rei from there but not the Bridge is lost on me.

I'm also curious about the scene when Rei Q sees Rei II. It's a brief shot, and the only one of its kind, but if you don't remember, it's right after Kaworu reveals the truth to Shinji and right before Fuyutsuki elaborates further. If Rei II is in Unit-01, why does Rei Q see her? I'm led again to believe that Rei II exists, to some degree, in the player, which is much closer to Rei Q than Unit-01 for any part of the film except the final battle.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

^ I personally think that has more to do with Shinji seeing Rei II mysteriously appear in the beginning of Eva Jo (1.0). Shinji mysteriously sees Rei II before he’s even met her at the beginning of the first film, and Rei Q mysteriously sees the same girl (that she’s also never met before) in the middle of the third film. If there is one unifying explanation for both of those scenes, it most likely has nothing to do with the SDAT Player since Rei II never had the opportunity to come into contact with it in the first film.

[TheAdmiral]

I'm pretty sure that when Shinji heard Rei III calling for him, it was inside his head (telepathy) and nothing to do with his tape-deck.

I will put forth a hypothesis for the tape player, to be taken with a grain of salt: in esoteric teachings, it's understood that the departed can (and occasionally) do form attachments to physical objects, particularly if there are strong emotions related to said object (a murder weapon, a cherished family heirloom, etc.) I don't think that Rei (Lilith's) essence is literally recorded on the DAT, but perhaps her soul left an energetic imprint upon the object, if only as an anchor or a beacon or a trigger of some sort.

[Tabby-chan]

^ I personally think that has more to do with Shinji seeing Rei II mysteriously appear in the beginning of Eva Jo (1.0). Shinji mysteriously sees Rei II before he’s even met her at the beginning of the first film, and Rei Q mysteriously sees the same girl (that she’s also never met before) in the middle of the third film. If there is one unifying explanation for both of those scenes, it most likely has nothing to do with the SDAT Player since Rei II never had the opportunity to come into contact with it in the first film.

I'm inclined to believe you, except that Rei II does come into contact with it in the second film. Why Shinji sees Rei in 1.0 is completely beyond me, though I don't think there's any viable explanation. However, I wonder if the reason has to be the same.

We know that, in Rebuild, just because one thing happens for one reason doesn't mean it can't happen for another reason. We know that an Angel coming into contact with Lilith will set off an Impact--in NGE, Fuyutsuki even warns of Unit-00 getting too close to Lilith for this reason. Yet, we see Impacts happening in 3.0 for other reasons. Unit-01, for example, is Lilith-based, and coming into contact with the Angel's Core seems to set off Third Impact. But in 3.0, Fourth Impact begins for wildly different reasons. Then again, I'm not up-to-date on the difference between HIP and Impacts.

My point here being that things can happen for more than one reason. Why did Shinji see Rei in the opening of 1.0? I don't know. But does that mean that the same reason must apply for all similar instances? I don't want to think so.

I will put forth a hypothesis for the tape player, to be taken with a grain of salt: in esoteric teachings, it's understood that the departed can (and occasionally) do form attachments to physical objects, particularly if there are strong emotions related to said object (a murder weapon, a cherished family heirloom, etc.) I don't think that Rei (Lilith's) essence is literally recorded on the DAT, but perhaps her soul left an energetic imprint upon the object, if only as an anchor or a beacon or a trigger of some sort.

This thread in a nutshell. How Anno uses this is up in the air, but I believe it.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

I'm pretty sure that when Shinji heard Rei III calling for him, it was inside his head (telepathy) and nothing to do with his tape-deck.

One of the reasons why I entertain the idea that it's Rei II's voice instead of Rei III/Q's voice is because the heavy reverb in Rei's audio mixing in that scene is the same as when Rei II was speaking to Shinji from inside the Angel's core at the end of Eva Ha. This leads me to suspect that whenever Rei chats with someone who isn't in the same core she's in, her voice becomes very reverberated.

[chee]

Anno, I swear to god that if this turns out to be true I will find you.

[Gendo'sPapa]

Do you have a particular set of skills?

[Tabby-chan]

One of the reasons why I entertain the idea that it's Rei II's voice instead of Rei III/Q's voice is because the heavy reverb in Rei's audio mixing in that scene is the same as when Rei II was speaking to Shinji from inside the Angel's core at the end of Eva Ha. This leads me to suspect that whenever Rei chats with someone who isn't in the same core she's in, her voice becomes very reverberated.

Interesting. I'm a musician myself and never thought of that. I also notice that, while in Zeruel's Core, Rei II's voice sounds much more up-front, while Shinji's is more realistic. It sounds different. The reverb is prominent indeed.

[unitM]

I don't think Kaworu's soul is in the SDAT player, though I do find it suspicious that Kaworu's actually got it to function again. With all sorts of unexplained futuristic technology in Q, it seems strange that a relatively-ordinary character requests help in repairing an old music box from an extraterrestrial and it somehow fits together and is repaired under ordinary human circumstances. Kaworu isn't an engineer by any human standards. Sure, he shows a preoccupation with Shinji's(and humanity's) psychology, but that doesn't mean that Kaworu knows what a battery is, or where to find one underneath all of NERV's clutter of equipments in Q. It's unlikely Kaworu approached Gendo about the situation and I find it funny to think that one of the SEELE monoliths branched out a core-glowing hand to open up the SDAT and replace it's batteries.

I think it's a lot safer to say that Kaworu's soul was left behind in 13. I don't find very much information to suggest that Kaworu is in the SDAT player at all.

[AuraTwilight]

Kaworu consistently shows a weird telekinetic control over technology in pretty much every continuity, it could be as simple as that.