Transformers: We Deserve Better Than Michael Bay

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Re: Transformers: We Deserve Better Than Michael Bay

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Postby Sachi » Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:52 pm

Nostalgic Critic did a similar non-review, where he basically says we can expect to see the same shit we've seen in the other movies, so he's not going to spend money supporting it. Also because Michael Bay says the movie might be shit, but everybody is going to see it anyways. Ouch. Not something you want to hear from a filmmaker. Screw you, Michael Bay.
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Re: Transformers: We Deserve Better Than Michael Bay

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Postby Chuckman » Mon Jul 03, 2017 6:56 pm

You see it as a cash grab, I see it as dadaism.

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Re: Transformers: We Deserve Better Than Michael Bay

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Postby silvermoonlight » Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:08 am

View Original PostSachi wrote:Also because Michael Bay says the movie might be shit, but everybody is going to see it anyways. Ouch. Not something you want to hear from a filmmaker. Screw you, Michael Bay.


That is terrible, it like saying to some one well here's a half baked cake sorry couldn't be bothered to put in all the filling or the chocolate coating it proberbly won't taste that great but its a cake right and you'll eat it because of that fact? When in reality movie goers deserve a full cake that tastes great because of how much money went in to making it which was $217–260 million....
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Re: Transformers: We Deserve Better Than Michael Bay

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:26 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:You see it as a cash grab, I see it as dadaism.

Paramount means it as a cash grab, but I think Micheal Bay might actually mean it as dadaism. He actively dislikes Transformers, calls them "Toy Movies" while questioning why anyone actually wants any of these things, and desperately has been wanting to do something since day one of film one. He keeps saying "This is my last one," but the studio keeps pressuring him to return. This time I think Bay hopes to have discouraged that from happening again.

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Re: Transformers: We Deserve Better Than Michael Bay

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Postby Chuckman » Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:33 pm

I legit think that Michael Bay hated making the first movie but the following films progressively become more and more about sympathizing with millenials. I haven't seen the newest one but the movies have pretty clear themes:

1: Toys are dumb, why would adult men care about toys when there are hot girls and cars?

2. Starts to sympathize with millenials, a commentary on regression to childhood, ends with an examination of the power of fictional ideals

3. Commentary on how Gen X and baby boomers talk down to and insult millenials and the difficulty of getting a life started as a young person

4. Corporations drain the human condition of worthwhile existence and turn everything into soulless meaningless constructs with no artistry

The 3-4 films have socialist/communist themes of uprising and villainize capital, hence a big company that merchandises the shit out of everything being allied with/facilitating the Decepticons in the two films.

Bay started out going "pfft, toys" and at the end he's making movies about how the entertainment/toy conglomerates standardize and commodify our sense of childhood wonder and awe and sell it back to us as cheap plastic shit and hollow brand labels. He doesn't make these too artsy because there's only so much he can get away with within the framework of these films but I mean shit, a bit part of 4 is the idea of a company "inventing" a way to end the concept of invention with a super-material that becomes whatever they want it to be, and they lose control of it.

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Re: Transformers: We Deserve Better Than Michael Bay

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:09 pm

Nonsense but nice nonsense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq-v1TTUyhM

Michael Bay is a commercial director. It's in his blood. He sells products first. It's why these movies feature blatant product placement for cars, Budweiser, Beat & Chinese milk.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBJ1b6I40Y0

As for the whole millennial thing that holds zero sway. Especially since a friend who saw the film told me he's killed off all the millennials from the first three. Shia LaBeouf's character is apparently dead during the timeline of Transformers 5. Canon.

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Re: Transformers: We Deserve Better Than Michael Bay

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Postby Ray » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:33 pm

I think Transformers is the only franchise that has retconned the last movie into Mostly obsolescence with every sequel.

Say what you will about Shia Lebouf as a political activist as a human being, I thought Sam was an okay character in The First movie, and his character deserved a better send off then " killed off screen".

I mean the Fast and the Furious movies are pretty dumb but even they were smart enough to not write Paul Walker out of the movie the way Michael Bay did for Shias character.
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Re: Transformers: We Deserve Better Than Michael Bay

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Postby Chuckman » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:57 pm

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:Nonsense but nice nonsense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq-v1TTUyhM

Michael Bay is a commercial director. It's in his blood. He sells products first. It's why these movies feature blatant product placement for cars, Budweiser, Beat & Chinese milk.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBJ1b6I40Y0

As for the whole millennial thing that holds zero sway. Especially since a friend who saw the film told me he's killed off all the millennials from the first three. Shia LaBeouf's character is apparently dead during the timeline of Transformers 5. Canon.


Thanks for countering the analysis with "pfft no".

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Re: Transformers: We Deserve Better Than Michael Bay

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:30 am

No prob, Bob.

Maybe it's just me but I just have difficulty telling when/if you're genuine in your defense of the Transformers films as more than just bad blockbusters you enjoy. And liking bad blockbusters is perfectly cool. I know I enjoy my fair share. But, if there is genuine belief in what you're saying that the Transfomers movies are "more than meets the eye" then I mean no offense. It's just that last post read to me as pure snark. A satire of examining film beyond the surface details. If it's all genuine then that's interesting. I don't see it in the films - though I quit 2 movies ago - but that's interesting nonetheless.

Still, you might be on to a few things about the films being deeper than people give them credit for. But, I would feel if anything one of the few/only interesting things about the Transformers movies is that they might be the first anti-human blockbusters. The toys are so front & center the humans are an after though. Everyone in the films - male, female, young, old, white, black, gay, straight - exists on nothing beyond the surface level. FiveThirtyEight had some poor soul watch all 5 movies & count up the screentime of the lead character. In the most recent film which has a ball-busting runtime of149 Mark Wahlberg is only present for about 25 of them. The rest is made up of military hardware, product placement, cars, explosions & Transformers.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/michael-bays-transformers-are-rendering-leading-men-obsolete/

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Re: Transformers: We Deserve Better Than Michael Bay

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Postby TheCarkolum » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:23 am

Michael Bay is... is... god, there are no words to describe the amount of BS Michael Bay bears in his mind. The fact that there are 5 (?????) Transformers movies is almost baffling to me. And don't worry, there will be 2 more and a spin-off as well (about the stupid little robot, yeah, Earth is hell indeed). That is not Michael Bay's fault of course, the guy is just on the train. We, the audience are the ones we are driving it. The guy will be doing the same disgusting garbage over and over and over and doesn't matter because the audience doesn't care. I am a film critic since 2009 and this "saga" is some of the worst things cinema has to offer nowadays.

Talking about the Last Knight, well it may be the worst of all, or not. I'm not sure, because watching this movie for 2 hours and a half is pure torture anyway. Horrible script, nothing makes sense, nothing matters and everything drags out soo bad... This movie doesn't even deserve to be talked about.
Last edited by TheCarkolum on Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Transformers: We Deserve Better Than Michael Bay

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Postby Sachi » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:27 am

View Original PostTheCarkolum wrote:This movie doesn't even deserve to be talked about.

Yet, you paid money to see it?
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Re: Transformers: We Deserve Better Than Michael Bay

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Postby TheCarkolum » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:14 am

Well, I was being discrete, but if you ask: no. I didn't and I wouldn't pay a cent.
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Re: Transformers: We Deserve Better Than Michael Bay

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Postby Ray » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:14 am

I TRIED to warn you!
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Re: Transformers: We Deserve Better Than Michael Bay

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Postby silvermoonlight » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:28 am

View Original PostTheCarkolum wrote: The guy will be doing the same disgusting garbage over and over and over and doesn't matter because the audience doesn't care. I am a film critic since 2009 and this "saga" is some of the worst things cinema has to offer nowadays.


Yeah but keep in mind this film flopped it only just made its money back because of China, had China audiences not had any involvement this would have been up there with Waterworld also there are only so many times you can anger an audience before they say no sorry enough is enough and that showing now with web critics refusing to even review it. So I think the studio might wake up this time and ask themselves now do I really want to take the risk of giving this man $250 million when there's a real chance this could bomb again and there is a very real possibility that China audiences might go well hang on there's nothing new compared to the last movie I saw and its not very good.
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Re: Transformers: We Deserve Better Than Michael Bay

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Postby Chuckman » Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:32 pm

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:No prob, Bob.

Maybe it's just me but I just have difficulty telling when/if you're genuine in your defense of the Transformers films as more than just bad blockbusters you enjoy. And liking bad blockbusters is perfectly cool. I know I enjoy my fair share. But, if there is genuine belief in what you're saying that the Transfomers movies are "more than meets the eye" then I mean no offense. It's just that last post read to me as pure snark. A satire of examining film beyond the surface details. If it's all genuine then that's interesting. I don't see it in the films - though I quit 2 movies ago - but that's interesting nonetheless.

Still, you might be on to a few things about the films being deeper than people give them credit for. But, I would feel if anything one of the few/only interesting things about the Transformers movies is that they might be the first anti-human blockbusters. The toys are so front & center the humans are an after though. Everyone in the films - male, female, young, old, white, black, gay, straight - exists on nothing beyond the surface level. FiveThirtyEight had some poor soul watch all 5 movies & count up the screentime of the lead character. In the most recent film which has a ball-busting runtime of149 Mark Wahlberg is only present for about 25 of them. The rest is made up of military hardware, product placement, cars, explosions & Transformers.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/michael-bays-transformers-are-rendering-leading-men-obsolete/


My analysis (although this is actually a guy named Terry van Feleday's analysis) is for fun but is not a joke.

I find a way to enjoy almost any movie.

Almost.

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Re: Transformers: We Deserve Better Than Michael Bay

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Postby TheCarkolum » Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:42 pm

View Original Postsilvermoonlight wrote:Yeah but keep in mind this film flopped it only just made its money back because of China

Yeah, the thing is, I don't live in the USA. I don't care if it's China or whatever the culprit, but the crime is done (wow, what an overdramatic sentence).

With that being said, the hopeful thing is it "flopped", indeed. Idk if 110M$ in the USA can be considered little business. The fact that such amount of money was collected (even when the budget is much much more) because this movie is sad, man. Hey, at least is decreasing... How many shitty Transformers movies will have to be done so the rabble can learn once and for all? No really, how many? It's beyond my comprehension...

View Original PostSachi wrote:Nostalgic Critic did a similar non-review, where he basically says we can expect to see the same shit we've seen in the other movies


That video should be viral. It's so revealing than hurts...
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Re: Transformers: We Deserve Better Than Michael Bay

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Postby silvermoonlight » Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:01 am

View Original PostTheCarkolum wrote:Yeah, the thing is, I don't live in the USA. I don't care if it's China or whatever the culprit, but the crime is done (wow, what an overdramatic sentence).

With that being said, the hopeful thing is it "flopped", indeed. Idk if 110M$ in the USA can be considered little business. The fact that such amount of money was collected (even when the budget is much much more) because this movie is sad, man. Hey, at least is decreasing... How many shitty Transformers movies will have to be done so the rabble can learn once and for all? No really, how many? It's beyond my comprehension...


Yeah I don't get that ether like I remember in one of the reviews for the earlier movies a critic said the movie was like watching an infinite drum kit falling down an infinite set of stairs like to me that was the red flag moment when the studio should have gone hang on I think there's an serious issue here but they didn't they turned a blind eye and carried on pumping them out.

I personally think Transformers is a literal symbolism of modern Hollywood's pure greed and arrogance as its a pure money churner nothing else it doesn't care who it offends and Bay assumes that it will sell because its for fanboys. What Bay and the rest of Hollywood fails to realize is that sociality is changing and evolving as it becoming aware of social issues due to social media so the same old racist, sexist bullshit just won't cut it any more. I can honestly say if they make another one of these I will be utterly shocked but I wouldn't put it past them...maybe that's what it gonna take for Hollywood to finally wake up in that it has to see a mayor studio crash burn and fold in on itself.
Last edited by silvermoonlight on Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Transformers: We Deserve Better Than Michael Bay

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Postby Chuckman » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:23 pm

Image

The Socialist Democratic Federated Republic of Carbombya is a kingdom located in the Sahara Desert region of the continent of Africa on the planet Earth. It has a coastline, with foreign ships that venture too close to it often being fired upon. This intensely xenophobic state is ruled by Abdul Fakkadi, and apparently derives most of its wealth from particularly fine oil. The people are often heard swearing on the lives of their mother's camels and so forth. This is of course hilarious offensively stereotypical. [Source]

Bay knows exactly how stupid this all is.

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Re: Transformers: We Deserve Better Than Michael Bay

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Postby Ray » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:31 pm

Batman, and Captain America punched out incredibly racist caricatures of Japanese people during World War II. And the racist caricatures are nowhere to be found in movies with them.

I wonder if the Marvel Cinematic Universe were in this exact same position instead of Transformers. You'd be quoting lines from the Silver age comic books to justify the presence of something as offensive as some of the stuff in the Bay movies.
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Re: Transformers: We Deserve Better Than Michael Bay

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Postby Chuckman » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:51 pm

It's more nuanced than that, Ray.

I'm not justifying those elements of Bay's film's, per say. I don't see them as necessary or worthwhile on their own. I see it as part of the dadaist nature of these films that are actively hostile to themselves and the audience. They're full of critiques of society and part of that is taking these regressive elements that we dismiss as "of their time" and shoving them in our faces. The purpose behind it is a statement: "No, this is what Transformers is".

He's actively daring audiences not to see these movies, daring critics to hate them, and daring the studios to stop making them. That is art.

I don't know if it's because he's not over the top enough, or if it's because the films are so marketing driven, or people just can't see the emperor has no clothes, but the Transformers franchise is to Transformers what Verhoeven's Starship Troopers is to Heinlein's Starship Troopers.


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