Confused about Carddass' angelic numbering

[Merkaba]

So I was looking for some Eva merch on eBay, and I came across a Carddass card set. While viewing the product images, I noticed one of the card's labels Adam as the Second Angel.

I've always thought Adam was the First, and I even confirmed it on the Wiki here. But why would Carddass, who I assume had an official license for Eva, say that Adam was the Second?

Here's the link:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEON-GENESIS-EVANGELION-BOTH-SIDE-PRINTED-CARDS-from-JAPAN-/180957749250?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a21ec2002#ht_3276wt_1069

Notice, however, that the card identifies the other Angels by their names, whereas that card is blank.

Now that I've been trying to piece this post together, I'm wondering - was Lilith really the Second Angel, or is that just an assumption we've always made? Was the nameless Giant of Light a separate entity from, but commonly confused for, Adam, and the true Second Angel?

[Reichu]

We can say with good confidence that it's a weird mistake. If there was ever any doubt from the show's numerous hints that Adam = Giant of Light, EoE spelled it out (cf. Misato's expository speech to Shinji). Furthermore, higher-ranking supplementary sources make it quite explicit that the Giant of Light is Adam is the First Angel, and that Lilith is the Second Angel. The error on the cards is especially strange since they're showcasing NGE2 content (the F-Type Equipment), and NGE2 contradicts what the cards say in very clear terms.

[Merkaba]

Reichu, I've noticed that quite often, you're able to translate Japanese (apologies if the language has a different name) to English. Is there any way you can do so for the entire card?

I'm also curious why they left the name of the angel off the card. Thoughts?

[Reichu]

Absolutely no thoughts on why the name was left off. The whole thing makes it look like the folks responsible for that card set missed some very critical memos. Thinking that the absentee Second Angel = Giant of Light =/= Adam is the sort of hypothesis one might come up with while partway through the show. Carddass letting this get through was just plain shabby work.

As for what it actually says, I can't give you anything precise because the text is so blurry and I'm not THAT good, but it's something like, "Allegedly discovered in Antarctica and caused Second Impact. (kanji) "Giant of Light", but/however, (????), afterward the (????) Eva Series were created (?in its spittin' image?)".

[JoeD80]

Well in that set card 28 is 1st angel Adam and card 45 is Lilith with no Angel numbering.

[Merkaba]

It happened again...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Evangelion-Neon-Genesis-2nd-Angel-Giant-of-Light-Kubrick-Medicom-GAINAX-Box-set-/120984691389?pt=US_Action_Figures&hash=item1c2b3fe2bd

This time, it's a Kubrick toy saying that the "Giant of Light" is the Second Angel. Why would two companies, both officially licensed mid-to-late-90s merchandisers, claim that the Second Angel isn't Lilith, and is instead the Giant of Light?

[Tribblepoo]

Jesus, people (especially merchandisers) are still making this mistake with a show that is damn near 20 years old?

Research, people. Fucking research.

[Merkaba]

Is there anything that explicitly says that Lilith is the Second Angel? The Dead Sea Scrolls are what seem to give the numbering of the Angels, and I'm wondering why, if Lilith arrived first (First Impact), she would be the Second, interrupting the flow of Adam and her decedents that come in a specific order.

[Ornette]

Is there anything that explicitly says that Lilith is the Second Angel?

Not within the show I don't think, though I think the first explicit instance was in one of the cards. Not that it wasn't pretty obvious who the 2nd was.

[Merkaba]

Not within the show I don't think, though I think the first explicit instance was in one of the cards.

Recall what the first post of this thread was, though. It was a card that said "The Giant of Light" was the Second Angel. What makes one card more reliable than the other?

Not that it wasn't pretty obvious who the 2nd was.

It's actually not that obvious. Adam is an Angel who had Angel children. Lilith is a/n (?) that had Lilim children. Why would both be Angels if they had separate types of offspring?[/quote]

[Hyper Shinchan]

It's actually not that obvious. Adam is an Angel who had Angel children. Lilith is a/n (?) that had Lilim children. Why would both be Angels if they had separate types of offspring?

Because of what Misato said in Air:

SPOILER: Show

[Merkaba]

I thought there was debate as to whether that was literal or not. Why would we be the 18th Angels if we were around before the other Angels woke up (and their numbering comes from the order of their arrivals/attacks)?

[Hyper Shinchan]

Well, maybe Angels were created before First Impact, although Tabris would still contradict the enumeration even if it were the case. It's easier that it was just Seele's decision to either skip Lilim altogether or place them as 18th Angel if we take Misato's words literally, like I'm prone to do.

[ShIiNjI]

Is there anything that explicitly says that Lilith is the Second Angel? The Dead Sea Scrolls are what seem to give the numbering of the Angels, and I'm wondering why, if Lilith arrived first (First Impact), she would be the Second, interrupting the flow of Adam and her decedents that come in a specific order.

I think that they use the terms "1st", "2nd", "3rd", etc. to identify the Angels depending on the order they meet them, hence Adam is the first and Lilith the second (and, as example, that is why Sachiel isn't the Third Angel in Rebuild). The Scrolls probably just says that 15 of Adam's offspring will come and raise the hell up before 3I.

I thought there was debate as to whether that was literal or not. Why would we be the 18th Angels if we were around before the other Angels woke up (and their numbering comes from the order of their arrivals/attacks)?

On the premise that I completely agree with the idea that "Angel" actually may refers to all beings whose origin is ultimately traceable to the First Ancestral Race [took from the Wiki]. After Misato found the truth about 2I and everything else, being aware that Angels and humans have lots in common, she probably just picks up the first number available... In the same way I could say that cats are the 19th Angel :/