Nukie wrote:In a nutshell, human flesh with Adam's soul.

Kaworu has the form of a human boy, but he is made of the same 'unearthly' substance as the other Angels (and Evas).

I think with Kaworu's kind-hearted and gentle personality, is just that; her personality.
Although it could have to do with the fact that she knew her true self (Adam) and accepted it, while Rei didn't really "awaken" as Lilith until after talking with Kaworu.


Though it does seem in EoE, when Shinji and Rei are in the LCL Sea, she seems...kinder than usual in a sense, prehaps because she truly awakened by then (returned to Lilith's body)?


....I did not know these images would be so big. ; Anyway to shrink them?

EDIT: screw it, I'll just resize them via photobucket. Thanks for the link though (school computers' don't let me resize these. >_>)

Sailor Star Dust wrote:....I did not know these images would be so big. ; Anyway to shrink them?

GIMP, it's free, it's open source (GPL-2) and it kicks ass.

Sailor Star Dust wrote:Anyway to shrink them?

If you have WinXP (perhaps 2k) then you can open jpegs in MSPaint.

File > Save Image As... from the web;

then open in Paint and

Image > Stretch/Skew... > Horizontal 50% Vertical 50 % > OK
File > Save As... and select JPEG

then re-upload. 50% is usually about right for screen-captures (recent HD formats aside)

A chain of questions:

1- The contact experiment (with the donor) was performed on the day of SI, correct?
2- If so, is the contact experiment the experiment that was going on at the time of SI? (The experiment with the genes and the Spear, etc.)
3- Again, if so, is it reasonable to assume that the "contact" experiment involved a setup similar* to the contact experiments between Yui=Eva01 and so on? (*i.e. Lots of connections and special gear such as a plug suit and headset like we see Yui wearing in that image)

4- Again and lastly, if so, then how could Dr. Katsuragi, when things went to hell right in the middle of the experiment, have had time to unhook himself and change out of any special suit/gear and into full standard issue protective gear (which from its tattered and melted condition he was wearing at the time of the accident) before trying to save Misato? Stated another way, given the urgency of the situation, why would he have bothered to take the time to change?

1) Yes.
2) It was going on when 2I started. The Spear came later if one follows the CI.
3) No idea. Would've been nice to see pictures of it, but no.
4) Well, it looks like some time-lapses are involved, the Platinum transcripts have scene deviders between the conversations, however there is nothing conclusive.

EDIT:
Reichu, finish that damned thread already!

1) According to the scientists' pre-SI conversation at the Antarctic base, yes.
2) Okay, according to the scientists' conversation and the CI, the Spear was "prepared" as a safety device for the contact experiment and then used in an attempt to reseal Adam when the contact experiment went awry. This means that the contact experiment (with the donor and the genes) was -the- experiment that was going on at the time of SI.
3) Given that it was a "contact" experiment (same designation as the later "contact" experiments), I am going to have to say that special equipment and facilities were involved, including some type of mental/psyche interface.
4) Hm, I think any potential time lapses here are a moot point. Once Adam was up and moving, things were in a state of complete panic and there would have been no reason or time to spare for Dr. Katsuragi to change into tattered and melted standard issue protective gear before trying to save his daughter. That's not how frantic/desperate people behave. Dr. Katsuragi was wearing that gear when the incident occurred, which IMO is the strongest evidence against him being the subject of the contact experiment.

Hmm...if a doner was needed, could it perhaps have been Yui a la Rei? Then could that also mean that *gasp* K-man and Shinji are sort of brothers? HA! Put that in your pipe and smoke it, fangirls! Somethin' more to squee over.

Anonymous_Evafan wrote:2) It was going on when 2I started. The Spear came later if one follows the CI.

There is no evidence of the Spear being involved with the CI itself, only in the panic after Adam starts glowing.

ORAMI!? wrote:Given that it was a "contact" experiment (same designation as the later "contact" experiments), I am going to have to say that special equipment and facilities were involved, including some type of mental/psyche interface.

I think you may be making certain a priori assumptions about this particular Contact Experiment. Same name, yes, but how much could it really have had in common with the second two CEs?

AEF wrote:Reichu, finish that damned thread already!

Is that a request? (In between school, work, etc., it might take a bit of doing.)

Reichu wrote:

Anonymous_Evafan wrote:2) It was going on when 2I started. The Spear came later if one follows the CI.

There is no evidence of the Spear being involved with the CI itself, only in the panic after Adam starts glowing.

Hehe I gotta stop being so vague as that's what I meant by the Spear came later. By the way I think the abbreviation you're looking for is CE.

AEF wrote:Reichu, finish that damned thread already!

Is that a request? (In between school, work, etc., it might take a bit of doing.)

Well yes since this is a recurring subject. You haven't touched that poor thread in 3 months, but it sounds like you've got your hands full so it's understandable, unlike Monkeys laziness in dealing with the bot problem.

Reichu wrote:There is no evidence of the Spear being involved with the CI itself, only in the panic after Adam starts glowing.

Pre-SI Antarctic base scene
Main conversation by Katsuragi Expedition scientists:

"What about the Spear of Longinus?"
"It's still where it was brought ashore after arriving from the Dead Sea last week."
"Isn't some processing necessary before taking the Spear underground? Will it be okay?"
"The contact experiment with the donor is scheduled for the 13th of next month. There's plenty of time for any adjustment."

This shows that the Spear was brought to Antarctica and processed/adjusted in some way in preparation for the contact experiment.
Furthermore, when things started to go bad, they tried to "pull back the Spear!" which suggests that the Spear was already somehow in play.

Reichu wrote:I think you may be making certain a priori assumptions about this particular Contact Experiment. Same name, yes, but how much could it really have had in common with the second two CEs?

Again, from the Katsuragi Expedition scientists' conversation:

"Today's experiment is the Field ego boundary signal, isn't it?"

This shows that they were investigating the same things that the later experiments and developments dealt with.
Given the identical naming, I think the reasonable inference in this case is that the contact experiments were at least similar if not the same.

So unless standard cold weather clothing was the official gear for the contact experiment with Adam,
the chances of Dr. Katsuragi being the test subject have IMO become extremely low.



as in infinitesimal or non-existant

ORAMI!? wrote:Furthermore, when things started to go bad, they tried to "pull back the Spear!" which suggests that the Spear was already somehow in play.

Things started to "go bad" at 00:23. The dialogue involving the Spear isn't heard until 00:33, ergo the Spear could have been invoked anywhere in those 10 minutes.

The CI says this much:

20. Second Impact

D. In-Depth Information

The other Seed of Life, Adam, was awakened by humankind. The Katsuragi
Investigation Team frantically attempted to reseal her using the Spear of
Longinus, but failed. Ultimately, through the phenomenon of the S2 Engine
apparently going into overdrive by artificial means (details are vague due to
the team's complete annihilation), it became that only an absolute catastrophe
-- the resetting of all life due to the disappearance of A.T. Fields, and the
construction of an ecosystem with an Adam base -- was prevented. This is called
the Second Impact. The incident blew Adam completely apart.

(Wow, so awkward. I need to clean up these translations bad. XD )

Again, from the Katsuragi Expedition scientists' conversation:

"Today's experiment is the Field ego boundary signal, isn't it?"

This shows that they were investigating the same things that the later experiments and developments dealt with.

It indicates that the Katsuragi Team had been investigating the workings of Adam's (as-yet unnamed) A.T. Field, but provides no specifics on the Adam CE.

As for the later CEs...

CI wrote:23. Dummy Plug

B. Generally Recognized Information

An entry plug developed for use with the Dummy System. Even if no pilot is
present, it can activate an Eva by making her think that a pilot is there.

C. Confidential Information

A copy of a personality is made in the Dummy Plug, but a soul cannot be copied.
Why can't it be done, or how would it be done? As far as the technology branches
of Seele and Nerv are concerned, it is a theme of research integral to seeking
out the Path to God, and study into how to deal with the problem has spanned
many years. Examples of failure include Yui and Asuka's mother. The Dummy Plug
is something that came about in the midst of that research.

And from this thread:

Shin-seiki wrote:I think this entry in the CI probably deserves more attention than it has hereto received, since this seems to be the most significant indication we're given regarding the actual point of the Contact Experiments. This seems to bring back the old "soul imprinting" theory we used to kick around on ANF a few years ago. I find it perplexing, tho, to contemplate how this may or may not relate to the CE performed on Adam at the time of 2I...

Reichu wrote:Quite; I don't see how it would, honestly. I doubt the Adam-Eva experiments have much in common at all aside from the basics: the "contact" between a Lilim and a "god". The first CE is the odd one out since the Lilim is called a "donor" rather than a "test subject", the "god" is a soulful Adam rather than a soulless Eva, and the circumstances in general are completely different.

Back to this post:

ORAMI!? wrote:So unless standard cold weather clothing was the official gear for the contact experiment with Adam,
the chances of Dr. Katsuragi being the test subject have IMO become extremely low.

"Don't count your Apostles till they've hatched."

as in infinitesimal or non-existant

Even 0.000000001% isn't zero.

On an aside, there were <36 minutes between Adam starting to glow and Adam actually moving.