Stuff that you would like to see in Evangelion 3.0+1.0

[Zoop]

Haven't read all this, so maybe this has been suggested before, but I thought of something the other day, I thought I would share.

Because I would like to see something from the timeskip, the missing eva's and angels, how to cover that fast in the movie (because obviously, if we get to see this, there would be little time for it).

When Shinji fought the third angel in NGE, we don't get see straight away what happened. Shinji seems to have blacked out, but apparantly he won. Misato praising him for it. Only later in the bath when Shinji "remembers" you get to see what happened.

In NTE, they skipped this, you get to see the entire battle in one go. Certainly helps for pacing (since its just a movie), but the buildup in NGE was better, imo. Anyway, what if if this was a deliberate choice so it could be mirrored later?
Like it mirrors his "blackout" when he got speared by Kaworu when he awoke Eva01.

- Last thing he remembered before getting his ass kicked by Sachiel, was pain and suffering.
- Last thing he remembered against Zeruel, was hope and accomplishment in saving Rei.

When he got out, people have things to say about his actions.
- In NGE it was praise, mainly by Misato
- In NTE it was mostly fear and disgust, and a cold shoulder from Misato.

- In NGE he saved the day
- In NTE he (apparantly) fucked the world beyond recognition

Both instances involved reactivating after running out of power.

I'm imagining this, after Rei, Asuka en Shinji's stroll through the red wastelands, they finally get to rest. Shinji is getting in a bath. Asuka could even make the same remark like Misato did, about washing the bad memories away. And thats when we briefly get to see what happened, why the spear was removed, how Eva01 got active again, and the whole mess with the other eva's and angels. Could be shown from Shinji's perspective so we can see the Eva's without explaining who's piloting them.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

Pen Pen will fuck.

Pen pen already fucks.

Also, I would like to see Shin Eva ignite discussions/arguments/downright shouting matches over an ambiguous ended. It wouldn’t be an Eva ending without that.

[Keratos23]

I would like to see Shin Eva ignite discussions/arguments/downright shouting matches over an ambiguous ended. It wouldn’t be an Eva ending without that.

Even though i would love it if it had and ambiguous ending, judging from what the animator "Se Jun Kim" said: "It really feels like it's the end".

Which could mean that by the end, everything is wrapped up and there is no confusion... As weird as that would be for Eva.

Tbh what he said could mean a lot of stuff, but that's what i got when i read it.

[pwhodges]

The end of EoE feels like an end, even though you know there's more to be wrapped up by the characters.

[chee]

It's been damn near 13 years, as long as it's an ending to this glorious mess I'll be happy.

[Velorex]

It's been damn near 13 years, as long as it's an ending to this glorious mess I'll be happy.

amen to that brother.

[kuribo-04]

Our characters enter the eye of the storm during Final Impact. What awaits them there?

[Reichu]

......Eva-13? Unless you're talking about the Gates or something.

[kuribo-04]

That hole that seems to be a portal to another world. Kaworu called it the Door of Guf, and we glimpse that weird geometrical shape behind it in Q.

[Shun]

Our characters enter the eye of the storm during Final Impact. What awaits them there?

Maybe it's a link to other realities, or a place where reality can be manipulated. The NTE message depends on this place. IMHO, Anno has defined in his mind what is this place since at least Evangelion - You can (not) advance. We'll see, I hope it will be something fascinating and above all significant.

[Reichu]

That hole that seems to be a portal to another world. Kaworu called it the Door of Guf, and we glimpse that weird geometrical shape behind it in Q.

The official Dansubs call them the Gates of Guf, and I've seen "eye of the storm" used to refer to something else during these impacts, so I just wasn't sure what you meant.

@Shun: I admittedly haven't thought about the "black hole" angle as much as I should have, but for now I imagine that "Guf Space" will have strong similarities to its equivalent in NGE. In NGE, there was a sort of Spiritual World (the Sea of LCL) existing in parallel with the physical one, based on a combination of Kabbalistic concepts and sci-fi string theory. In NTE, some sci-fi version of concepts from physics appear to be in play (as you've noted in your analysis), and the return of the phrase "Gates of Guf" implies the existence of a "Chamber" beyond them, much as the Gates led to the Chamber in NGE. Ritsuko's reference to "heaven and earth" could be referring to (A) the spiritual world beyond the Gates and (B) the physical world the characters are currently in.

One idea I've been starting to develop is that the dual nature of the Adams, as complete physical bodies on the one hand and as beings of "energy condensate" on the other, may have something to do with them originating from the other side of the Gates. Energy condensate is their true form, whereas the way they normally appear is their "fallen" form. The fact that Adams seem to possess a unique ability to open the Gates of Guf is very suspicious, and some have wondered if the object beyond the Gates isn't some kind of White Moon equivalent...

[Shun]

@Shun: I admittedly haven't thought about the "black hole" angle as much as I should have, but for now I imagine that "Guf Space" will have strong similarities to its equivalent in NGE. In NGE, there was a sort of Spiritual World (the Sea of LCL) existing in parallel with the physical one, based on a combination of Kabbalistic concepts and sci-fi string theory. In NTE, some sci-fi version of concepts from physics appear to be in play (as you've noted in your analysis), and the return of the phrase "Gates of Guf" implies the existence of a "Chamber" beyond them, much as the Gates led to the Chamber in NGE. Ritsuko's reference to "heaven and earth" could be referring to (A) the spiritual world beyond the Gates and (B) the physical world the characters are currently in.

Absolutely yes, I agree.
In NGE there are Guf Chamber (the red dimension) and LCL Sea (the orange dimension), therefore also in NTE there could be some sci-fi metaphysical dimensions.

As for the Moons I don't know ... we know that the "giant core" in 3.0 is the Black Moon, and it looks like a biological spaceship with gills, while the object in the Guf should be a sphere that grows when the Impact get to climax.
I thought about the black hole because of GunBuster and DieBuster, and since Anno mentioned Nadia and Karekano he could also mention Gun and Die.

One idea I've been starting to develop is that the dual nature of the Adams, as complete physical bodies on the one hand and as beings of "energy condensate" on the other, may have something to do with them originating from the other side of the Gates. Energy condensate is their true form, whereas the way they normally appear is their "fallen" form. The fact that Adams seem to possess a unique ability to open the Gates of Guf is very suspicious, and some have wondered if the object beyond the Gates isn't some kind of White Moon equivalent...

I like your idea of ​​two bodies (physical and spiritual)!

There are a few things about my hypothesis of World of Harmony that I thought but I didn't write: --> EDIT: I added these things in the AVANT1 article.

1) Rainbow and Seven Heavens
Why does the vortex have the colors of the rainbow? My guess is that Anno thought of the Seven Heavens present in various mythologies and religions, and consequently he made the connection with the seven colors of the rainbow.

2) Awakening
From wikipedia:

The English term enlightenment is the western translation of the abstract noun bodhi, (/ˈboʊdi/; Sanskrit: बोधि; Pali: bodhi), the knowledge or wisdom, or awakened intellect, of a Buddha.[1] The verbal root budh- means "to awaken" and its literal meaning is closer to "awakening."

So, maybe the Evangelion awakening is inspired by Buddhism.

3) Cycle and harmony
In 2.0 Gendo says that "chaos is a sensation of human, while the world is harmony and order". The Four Noble Truths of Buddhism say that suffering is caused by human's ignorance of the true nature of reality. The true nature of reality is harmony. --> Moksha (Hinduism) Nirvana (Buddhism)

Moksha from wikipedia:

Moksha (/ˈmoʊkʃə/; Sanskrit: मोक्ष, mokṣa), also called vimoksha, vimukti and mukti, is a term in Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism for various forms of emancipation, enlightenment, liberation, and release. In its soteriological and eschatological senses, it refers to freedom from saṃsāra, the cycle of death and rebirth. In its epistemological and psychological senses, moksha is freedom from ignorance: self-realization, self-actualization and self-knowledge.

Nirvana from wikipedia:

Nirvana is the ultimate spiritual goal in Buddhism and marks the soteriological release from rebirths in saṃsāra.Nirvana is part of the Third Truth on "cessation of dukkha" in the Four Noble Truths, and the summum bonum destination of the Noble Eightfold Path.

Samsara from wikipedia:

Saṃsāra (Devanagari: संसार) means "wandering", as well as "world" wherein the term connotes "cyclic change". Saṃsāra is a fundamental concept in all Indian religions, is linked to the karma theory, and refers to the belief that all living beings cyclically go through births and rebirths. The term is related to phrases such as "the cycle of successive existence", "transmigration", "karmic cycle", "the wheel of life", and "cyclicality of all life, matter, existence".

So, maybe the Evangelion cycle is inspired by Samsara, and the HIP is inspired by Nirvana/Moksha. I wrote about it here: click

4) Lotus flower and Tree of Life
In January 2018 I had written an article dedicated to the mysterious illustration of Mahiro Maeda (click). The 6-armed Eva might be a reference to some 6-armed deity of Hinduism or Buddhism, and she is holding a dharmachackra and a lotus flower in his hand. The lotus flower is the symbol of the purity of Moksha and Nirvana.
In the Seventh Heaven of Islam there is the Sidrat al-Muntaha, the Lotus Tree which represents the limit of creation, above this there is God. Perhaps the union of the Adams (Eva13 + Mark06 + Eva01 + Lost Number Nebuchadnezzar) will open the Gates of Guf and this complete Adam will enter in the sphere where he will find the Lotus Tree.
Anno is fascinated by the symbol of the tree. He visited the Osaka Expo in 1970 with his parents, and was very impressed by this event. Osaka's Tower of Sun seems to have inspired Evangelion, for example the face of the Angels resembles the golden mask of the tower, and inside the tower there is the Tree of Life, and in both Nadia and Evangelion there is a tree: the World Tree at the South Pole in Nadia, and the Tree of Life in The End of Evangelion. So I wouldn't be surprised if there was a tree in NTE.
I had written in 2015 a series of articles dedicated to NGE, in particular in this article I also speak about the Osaka Expo.

5) Transcend all worlds
The branches of the tree could represent all the possibilities or realities (Physical World, Spiritual World, all dimensions and all possibilities) while the trunk of the tree could represent the unification of all the possibilities or realities in one. I though something like a fractal. Heaven and Earth come together in one, Ritsuko says, and so would happen to all possibilities / realities. --> Rebuild the World of Harmony and order --> End of suffering.

You are (not) alone = You are alone / You are not alone
You can (not) advance = You can advance / You can not advance
You can (not) redo = You can redo / You can not redo
In each title there are two possibilities. They seem like the choices we have to make in life, whenever we choose one path, we lose the others. Each path is a possibility, a single reality.
What happens by unifying all the possibilities in a unicum? You no longer need to choose, so you no longer suffer from mistakes and lost paths.

In the 2017 poster it says (click):
続 、 After that,
そ し て 終 。and THE END.
非, NOT,
そ し て 反 。and ANTI.

By combining the sentences symmetrically you can get 反終 ANTI-THE END. In the "Book of Changes" (ancient Chinese text) there is the Primordial Antifinal (原始反終). From this higher dimension one can observe the development and the change of all things from beginning to end, the nature of life and death, the cyclicity of existence, the end that gives rise to a new beginning.
In the real world there is change, and it is cause of suffering, while in the World of Harmony there is no change, therefore there is calm. The Eva curse is the absence of change, and in 3.0 Kaworu says that Shinji doesn't search the change. The original sin is the choice. The punishment is the pain of change and the death. The purification is the return to harmony without choice, change, pain and death. In the World of Harmony there is no choice because all possibilities are transcended, and therefore there is no suffering of choice. Kiyoko Suizenji's song, "Path of sincerity", can be a clue to abandon the unified path in the World of Harmony in favor of a sincere path in real life, a choice that will have to be made by Shinji.

It seems to me an interesting idea, it fascinates me, but I don't know what Anno wants to do. Maybe the movie show us Anno and Moyoco walking in the park for two hours.

[ltwalter]

The answer to all of life's problems. The reason to why we are here on this Earth and what this all ultimately means. The solution to all sexism, racism, hatred and violence we commit towards one another. The answer on how to get ahead in this life, make adequate finances and find a loving partner....


If Final can't answer any of those then I'll settle for another good movie.

Kaworu actually has already given the answer about everything: the reason of living is seek to be happy, and that can only be achieved by trying the same again and again, until you feel you like it...

[Blockio]

The problem with that being that Kaworu is self-righteously imposing his idea of happiness on all of humanity

[kuribo-04]

∆ Wasn't he just trying to reverse the read Earth in 3.0 (even if he was to innocemt to grasp what was going om at first)? I think most humans would agree with that.

[Arcadia's legacy]

Shinji certainly wanted to. It's unclear if Kawrou wanted the same, he wanted something else and Shinji's misinterpreting him, or if Kaworu's manipulating Shinji the whole time

[ErgoProxy]

Ehh, I'm not quite sure even Kaworu himself knows what does he want.

As far as my opinion can go, he simply has no ego, so his id and superego are ying-yanging all the show long, until his deliberate harakiri. I can see his superego working as he takes the choker from Shinji, effectively atoning himself; at the same time I can watch his id taking control over his facial expression, as he pleasures himself with Shinji's despair. Kill me if I know how does he want to use the Spears. He apparently firmly believes he can rebuild himself together with the world. But is this faith reasonable at all, even in the Evaverse?

I'd really like to see in Final some clues from the Japanese on how to handle such personality, because all the Western thought is able to produce is: "he subconsciously wants to get caught and punished".

[kuribo-04]

I think Kaworu is really straightforward, and can't quite grasp when people (more than I'd expect) read other stuff into his personality or objectives.

[Reichu]

Hard disagree. This is a character who e.g. launches into a complete non sequitur of a rant when asked the simple question "What should I do?" Straightforward people do not do that. Kaworu demands investigation and interpretation.

[Blockio]

The only way I can see him being "straightforward and innocent" is if angels are working on blue-and-orange morality and that rant was just him trying to communicate that to a lower plain of thought

That being said, I'd argue that the chances for that are very low indeed, and the much more reasonable assumption for the time being is that he was planning something that he couldn't possibly tell Shinji because otherwise he would have never gone along with it


That whole rant oozes the same kind of energy as the master plan of a big number of Char clones (for those unfamiliar - usually blone pretty boy, used to have a high social standing (usually through noble birth, although some have worked their way up) until something brought them down and now they're plotting their revenge that ranges from a limited group of people (most of the time some family of royals responsible for their downfall) to literally all of humanity.)