Who will die in Final.

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Postby LightDragonman » Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:02 pm

I'm not quite sure who'll live or not. Rei's the one I'm most interested in as always, and I feel her chances are 50/50. Heck, both versions could make it out, merge into one who survives or dies, or have one die and the other live. Maybe, like I mentioned in another thread, it'll be a situation like in The Island, where Rei Q tricks Shinji into killing Rei II, or vice-versa.

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOxspReyzOI[/url]

As for Asuka, that's a bit trickier. Her entire role seems to be mirroring the one that Misato played in EOE (her dragging Shinji through the wasteland mirrors Misato dragging him through NERV). They may go for a fake out, where it looks like she'll die in the fight against the MP-Evas, only to have back-up appear and either save her via a Heroic Sacrifice, or get her out of there. Kind of like this:

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJolsRAAsPE[/url]
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Postby ThanatosII » Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:06 pm

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:Sakura has recovered, and there is absolutely no evidence presented either way on Touji's survival (or any of the school children for that matter). To my mind, the fact that Sakura survived is a pointer to Touji also surviving, as they would likely still have been together as a family at the crucial time.


Been awhile since I saw Q, but what you said makes sense. Touji being alive or dead is just as ambiguous as Kaji basically it seems then.
To throw this into the mix, perhaps Wille took in Sakura at a crucial time rather than Touji. Not stating it's my personal interpretation, just stating another possibility since you made me think of it after giving your reasoning.
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Postby pwhodges » Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:26 pm

^ (I sent you a PM, too)
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Postby xyz346 » Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:57 pm

Rei...the reason I don't think Rei Q will die is because she's too much of an undeveloped character by the end of Q. Her identity crisis was a big subplot in the film, and it would be such a waste for her to die. Rei II, on the other hand, probably won't come back.

Asuka's an interesting case...the reason I didn't give her as high as a chance as Shinji and Rei to live is because Asuka has developed much over the last 14 years. The only real place left for her to develop is her relationship with Shinji. Assuming they reconcile, it's unlikely that she would change that much. What's more, Asuka's role in the story has pretty much been subordinate to Shinji and Rei - but given the pattern of the last few movies, there's a good chance that would change.
...

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Postby Sicarius VI » Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:28 pm

Now call me crazy, but I could see Shinji dying..... a happy death. What I mean by this is that he is in Unit-01 when he is about to die when is mother finally makes contact with him. His mother(and Rei-2 if she isn't resolved earlier in final) basically gives him like assurance that he doesn't need to stay in this world or some stuff like that, frankly assurance that he can die peacefully having achieved his purpose(which I know makes Yui sound like using him as a tool, but I don't mean it in that context).

SPOILER: Show
I am drawing this idea from the Sadamanga ending where when Shinji is in Instrumentality and Yui says along the lines of you will be the protector of this world, and in that flashback sequences I believe they are at a park.


Note: This is also in the context that in final Shinji doesn't reconcile with everyone enough to want to keep living, this would be Shinji getting in Eva-01 and just someway ending it with his father(he has a right if not more of a right then everyone else in Wille).

And as for Yui, well when Shinji is ever near death Yui saves him by overpowering Unit-01, and in EOE Instrumentality Shinji gets assurance from his mother. I believe I can say if Shinji dies Yui will be there with a guiding hand.

As for other characters well I'm sure Gendo will die, Fuyu too those both are pretty given(less Fuyu tho).

As for Wille.... I don't know, they almost killed off Asuka and killing her off in final would be tad bit stupid and redundant IMO.Also Asuka seems like she's too tough to get killed in the new 2028/2029 world of Eva. Misato, Ritsuko, well as of 3.0 I'd get some satisfaction if they died by Shinji somehow but I completely doubt this would actually happen. Without Shinji doing it I don't see them dying. Sakura would be the one I don't want to die, and Rei well I don't even know how to approach this. I'll just say ReiQ won't die and Rei-2 could possibly be revived I don't want to see them die, they really don't deserve it. And lastly Mari, no not at all, I think she is too smart to get herself killed, partially because she loves to say little plot details here and there.
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Postby Reichu » Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:28 pm

Threads like this are why Anno creates endings where we don't actually know who's alive and dead, or what "alive" and "dead" really mean, for that matter.

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Postby Ray » Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:32 pm

As long as the ending is Iron clad, and not at all Nebulous or convoluted or esoteric, I'll be happy.

Back on Topic. My Money is on Misato dying saving Shinji in one last act of genuine love for him, like her father did for her. Right before the Fireball consumes her she comments on the irony of the situation.

"Heh, I guess its true, we all become our fathers Someday."

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Postby Rei IV » Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:58 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:Threads like this are why Anno creates endings where we don't actually know who's alive and dead, or what "alive" and "dead" really mean, for that matter.

Good point, given nobody's really "dead" in EOE and they can come back.....if they have the will

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Postby KingXanaduu » Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:13 pm

I think my opinion on the matter of the Eva pilots and Wille is perfectly reflected by the words of a famous Physician:

SPOILER: Show
Image


'Cept Gendo. He can rot.
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Golbz:.............
Golbez: Your loss can strengthen you.

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Postby Ray » Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:29 pm

I wish I could share your optimism. Pretty sure someone will die in Final, who it is and how many is up to Anno.

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:12 am

If we're arguing over whether or not somebody will die, then my answer is yes. A thousand times yes.

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Postby pwhodges » Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:35 am

View Original PostRei IV wrote:Good point, given nobody's really "dead" in EOE and they can come back.....if they have the will

Meh, people die in conflicts with big destructive things being waved around. But it's easy to make them the non-entities and keep your interesting characters around to be, well, interesting.

No, what I am waiting to see, given that Anno is clearly determined for this to be majorly different from NGE (which it already has been since the tenth angel), is what he is going to do entirely differently from his previous depictions of instrumentality to get across his entirely different, but yet presumably comparable, point.
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Postby ElMariachi » Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:06 am

^
Agreed, Instrumentality in NTE seems to be a very different Beast than in NGE, so first we need to know what exactly Gendo's version will do before knowing if everyone will "die": if it's similar than SEELE's version as explained by Kaworu (all souls sacrificed to give birth to a new race) then it certainly won't happen, if it's similar than in NGE (merging of everyone's soul to create a collective Happy Fun Land) then it might happen, although that would risk feeling like re-hash of EoTV/EoE.


View Original PostSicarius VI wrote:Now call me crazy, but I could see Shinji dying..... a happy death. What I mean by this is that he is in Unit-01 when he is about to die when is mother finally makes contact with him. His mother(and Rei-2 if she isn't resolved earlier in final) basically gives him like assurance that he doesn't need to stay in this world or some stuff like that, frankly assurance that he can die peacefully having achieved his purpose(which I know makes Yui sound like using him as a tool, but I don't mean it in that context).

Which would go completely against the morale of the franchise as a whole: "Life is too difficult? Well don't worry: pick death!"

One of Yui's most iconic lines (if not THE most iconic) is when she said that as long as someone has the will to live, everywhere can be paradise (ie you can build your own happiness), so I really don't see her do a 180° and advocate giving up on life.
And even less have it revealed that she planned since the beginning to send her son to die in achieving his intended purpose!

Even if he doesn't reconcile with everyone, he can start over somewhere else and meet new people that doesn't share the burden of the past with him. Sad sure, but better than just giving up and dying.
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Postby LightDragonman » Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:12 am

^ See, I always had a major problem with that message, believe it or not. Yes, it definitely applies to things like suicide and the like. However, I also feel that it is too broad of a statement.

Countless times, people have chosen to lay down their lives for the sake of another. All those brave Allied forces in WWII, our police and firefighters, and heck, just people who choose to sacrifice their life to save another. Not to mention that sometimes, the most humane thing one can do to someone who is suffering terribly via a disease or mutilation is to simply put them out of their misery. Harsh yes, but it is to keep them from being in agonizing pain.

This message is basically (at least as far as I can tell), saying that giving up one's life for another or simply putting them out of their misery via mercy kill is completely wrong. You should only focus on staying alive, as that is the only way you can create your own happiness.

Maybe I'm interpreting this wrong, but I can't help but feel that this message is heavily flawed and even dangerous and insulting to those who have sacrificed themselves for someone.
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Postby pwhodges » Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:59 am

There's a big, big difference between laying down your life for someone else, and doing it to end one's own unhappiness.
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
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Postby ElMariachi » Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:01 am

^
There's two major problems here: first, Shinji isn't ill or mutilated, so there isn't any suffering to end. Second, and more importantly, soldiers, firefighters, police officers... risk their lives sure, but they choose to do so (well, except conscripts) with full knowledge of what they were getting into, and accepted in all honesty, and I think that it's the same for WILLE: everyone is here from their own free will and signed for this shit.

But following Sicarius VI's scenario, Shinji's situation is very different: even if he chose to sacrifice himself for everyone else, it wouldn't really be his decisions in all honesty, but circumstances that were established since long before to make him end in this position where he'll have to sacrifice himself.
Basically, Shinji was pinballed from one "purpose" to another by other people, since almost the moment he was born, culminating into him sacrificing himself to "atone" for a sin consequential of him being pinballed.
In the end that would mean that Shinji never was free to take a single decision for himself in his whole life, everything he did was set up by one mastermind or another, in the end he was a tool that did other people's bidding from his birth to his death, and frankly that sucks.
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Postby LightDragonman » Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:32 pm

Keeping that in mind, what if he ultimately chooses to die to save everyone, and it isn't determined by someone else's will or a really wacky Gambit Roulette?

[s:2pjt7pbe]Seriously, Gendo's scheme in the last film is so needlessly complicated and the like that I still call bullcrap on it even after analysis.[/s:2pjt7pbe]
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Postby Chuckman » Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:50 pm

Everyone will die, and Shinji will finally find out where his watch is.
the prophecy is true

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Sat Sep 13, 2014 12:06 am

^
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Postby Jäeger » Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:57 am

The three pilots will survive, despite I'm not sure about Rei Q. Killing Asuka would be estupid and redundant after 2.0 and no, she has not inherited Misato's in EoE role because her relationship with Shinji has nothing to do with the one Misato had as comander and surrogate mother. Killing Rei Q qould be a waste, because we only have seen her first steps as an individual being.

Gendo and Fuyutski are dead. A lot
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