4th Film Info (READ OP) + Speculation

[Jurrasic]

we got it that the guys who had to live through the Time Skip are much more knowledgeable than Shinji who was "sleeping" all this time, and that it helps to convey his feeling of confusion to the viewers, but now it's time to actually know what's happening.

This, more then anything else, is what I REALLY hope we get in Final.

This universe has changed so radically from not only the original series, but 1.0 and 2.0 as well. Even veteran Eva fans are mostly as lost as the general audience (which was likely one of Anno's goals, in hindsight) and while not every mystery needs to be laid out on the table, a proper understanding of just what the HELL went on between the end of 2.0 and the start of 3.0 is essential.

Leaving us to flounder with obscure bits like the odd crushed JSSDF assault craft (hinting an EoE-style assault by the military happened) or a Lilith we last saw shaking on her cross now dead, eviscerated and decapitated with Eva 6 in her neck, spearing her through his own core is great for fuelling internet forum debates and generating cool fan-wanked theories, but we don't really know at all what the hell went on and that is frustrating, and will likely remain so until Final finally shows.

[wiser3754]

No, I'm sure that this time it will be different : since Bardiel's fight in 2.0, Shinji chained only failures upon falures, I think it's time to break the chain of failures, if not his character will stay stuck as a failure himself!

That last line I said, I was being a troll, I should've added a disclaimer.

(Speculation time)

More to the point, Kaji being alive (don't know about this being likely) having knowledge of the events 14 years ago (he knew EVA01 was going to be awoken, albeit it was pre-mature) and the events leading up to EVA01's capture and coming aboard the WUNDER (after Asuka, Shinji, ReiQ are picked up) would sure be Shinji's saving grace and putting audience's mind at ease as to WTF happened.

His saving grace being that Kaji in 2.0 seems to have a liking to Shinji, telling him things about himself, Misato, second impact, Shinji's favour to him to protect Misato because he can't and enjoying helping things grow (hence, a reason why he's a high ranking official, rebuild the world). Essentially, he's a friend which might get him to open up about what he learned while at NEO-NERV instead of being scared of WILLE and keeping quiet.
But honestly, I really think Shinji needs to tell Misato and WILLE this information, yeah it'll be painful, but as Kaji said to him once, "Everyone has their pain".

Although, if he is alive, I get the feeling that he and Misato are worlds apart. My speculation for this, is that Kaji knows Shinji is (somewhat) innocent for the events of third impact, but Misato refuses to see this and Kaji subsequently can't stand the thought of being near her for this (he is a truth seeker).

"For the "Lilin" term, maybe it's a term Asuka use to design everyone in general, in contrast with her who's now a "freak" thanks to her glowy eye and the curse of Eva, in Rebuild she seems to love to give nicknames to everyone."

I kind of like that idea, she still has angel contamination and in a way, she's become somewhat ostracised from the crew on the WUNDER. Sounds like she's in a similar position like Shinji (just not in scope) and treated with suspicion.


Before I go, the words in the FINAL preview "He comes upon a place that teaches him hope" just keeps flowing through my mind and screams "HE'S GOING SOMEWHERE ELSE BESIDES THE WUNDER!!" and I can't shake the thought off, that's why I keep thinking he won't be aboard the WUNDER (at least, not for long).

Just how does the WUNDER and it's fleet get food, water, medical supplies, it's motley crew and not to mention where the thing was built just leads me to believe that there is a bastion of hope somewhere out there.

Again, feel free to add, destroy or face palm this post.

[pwhodges]

Before I go, the words in the FINAL preview "He comes upon a place that teaches him hope" just keeps flowing through my mind and screams "HE'S GOING SOMEWHERE ELSE BESIDES THE WUNDER!!" and I can't shake the thought off, that's why I keep thinking he won't be aboard the WUNDER (at least, not for long).

Just how does the WUNDER and it's fleet get food, water, medical supplies, it's motley crew and not to mention where the thing was built just leads me to believe that there is a bastion of hope somewhere out there.

The fact that Wunder can't pick them up is to me a clear plot device to make a way for Shinji, in spite of being with Asuka, to get diverted to some other place, and very possibly never enter Wunder again. It is hard to think of anything (non-fatal to unprotected humans like our little group) that Wunder couldn't be effectively screened against, so it's that way simply to ensure that our protagonists are isolated for the next stage of their adventure.

Where the place is, and how it teaches him hope, though, is another question altogether, and one for which we have no sliver of a clue that I can see. Maybe they come to a place (whether or not it is involved in supplying Wille or Nerv or whatever) with ordinary people trying to live ordinary lives, who show Shinji that simply getting on with making the best of things without complaint is a virtue in itself. 1.11 included scenes of ordinary life that the series hadn't, and so parallel scenes of people coping in the post-impact world could be fitting.

[wiser3754]

The fact that Wunder can't pick them up is to me a clear plot device to make a way for Shinji, in spite of being with Asuka, to get diverted to some other place, and very possibly never enter Wunder again. It is hard to think of anything (non-fatal to unprotected humans like our little group) that Wunder couldn't be effectively screened against, so it's that way simply to ensure that our protagonists are isolated for the next stage of their adventure.

Where the place is, and how it teaches him hope, though, is another question altogether, and one for which we have no sliver of a clue that I can see. Maybe they come to a place (whether or not it is involved in supplying Wille or Nerv or whatever) with ordinary people trying to live ordinary lives, who show Shinji that simply getting on with making the best of things without complaint is a virtue in itself. 1.11 included scenes of ordinary life that the series hadn't, and so parallel scenes of people coping in the post-impact world could be fitting.

One thing that bothers me though is that the WUNDER was able to pick up both UNIT-02 and UNIT-08, so why the WUNDER can't pick up the trio outside of the L barrier is baffling.

As for where they go besides WUNDER spouts another problem, Shinji is the world's most hated person and his face will be recognised, unless the curse of EVA is not common knowledge and people just assume he's a striking resemblance (to the world, he's 28 years old).

But I do like the idea of people living in a post-apocalyptic (post EoE) world, fans have always wondered what it would be like and if that's true, here is your chance to see it. But yeah, as for the place that teaches him hope, I also don't have a clue.

My view for FINAL's theme is that is will centre on other character's view on Shinji, before third impact and now, with flashbacks and truth told through conversation (yeah right).

[ElMariachi]

That last line I said, I was being a troll, I should've added a disclaimer.

Bleh.


Kaji as a paternal figure that will help Shinji climb out of the black hole of despair he fell into is an excellent idea, I would really love to see it happen since Shinji didn't had any father figure yet in Rebuild, unlike in NGE.
As for any fall out between him and Misato, I don't think it would be because she fully blames Shinji for N3I and not him, that would be too simple for Anno, instead I think that Misato feel that she have some responsibility on what happened 14 years ago because she pushed Shinji to act only following his wishes, like she did when she was a Colonel at NERV, and is in a sort of perpetual repentance for that, while Kaji tries to make her forgive herself, to don't live in the past and try to move forward... that could have caused a rupture between them, and Shinji coming back from limbo can be the trigger of a confrontation between Kaji and Misato, and maybe a reconciliation(and yest, the pun was completely intended! )

Why I think Asuka could see herself as a freak not really human anymore and mark her difference by calling the others "Lilin" is because it would nicely explain why she seems to be the one who's the more pissed against Shinji, especially when he escaped the Wunder with Rei Q, she then calls him "a brat", why? Well I have the theory that when Asuka woke up from her coma, whatever happening with her eye made her receive the same treatment than Shinji : suspicion, fear, wariness, maybe outright hatred from some people, if she stayed in a coma during some time then many important things happened without her knowing it, she probably got a lot of experiments on her body and quarantine cells as her living location for some time, maybe people feared that since she has some angelic mumbo jumbo going within her, she can lost control at any and try to exterminate them all, and she had to bear all of it and get back their trust little by little, but never could make things back to how they were before the Bardiel incident, because her eyepatch is a constant reminder that there is something not human with her... and the curse of Eva trapping her in a 14 years old body surely didn't helped!
And then comes back Shinji, who ends in a similar situation : no one knows if he's fully human, "out of temporal water", because of the fact he was inside EVA-01 when everything had gone to hell everyone suspects him to be the one who launched 3I on their face, maybe he's cursed too...
And unlike her who worked long and hard to gain a semblance of trust and life from the others, Shinji get the hell out at first opportunity instead of staying and trying to understand what's happening and what's at stake... admit that this is a good reason to get pissed off!
Of course, it was all neo-NERV's ploy to pick up the sooner possible using "Rei" as a bait, and later manipulated him to break him so he will get along with Kaworu's plan with the spears no matter what happens, but she can't possibly know that.(at least not what happened during his stay at neo-NERV)

I hope their trip in the desert will be the occasion to let them tell to one each other what happened and how they feel, and it won't be Rei Q who will interrupt them!



Finally, about that L-Barrier thing, on a narrative level it's clearly a plot device to let the pilot trio alone for some time(even if Rei Q isn't Rei II), in-universe I think that that "L-barrier" is simply a jamming field that prevent her to communicate with the Wunder, and them to locate her(since I think that the Entry Plug have a tracking signal to be picked up after ejecting), that's why they have to get out of the field to be able to establish communication and be rescued.

As for why the Wunder would pick up EVA-02 and 08, well 02 was probably plastered against the Wunder's hull, so retrieving it was difficult, and EVA-08 was in the rumble on top of the Black Moon, so maybe her signal could have been picked up, or maybe Mari made her EVA wave her arms so be seen by them, you knows.
But to find a crashed entry plug in such a wide area that has been brought even more to total ruins and rubble, while the Wunder was heavily damaged and near neo-NERV HQ, from where some Nemesis Series could be sent as reinforcements, that was impossible.

[wiser3754]

El Mariachi, I keep getting logged out, hence I haven't posted a response yet, even though I've tried twice.

Anyway, another quick question, and it's off topic, do you think Mari is trying to close the rift between Shinji and Asuka?

The scene just before Mari is about to launch Unit-08 to intercept Mark.09, where she asks Asuka "How was pups", Asuka's response is "He hasn't changed at all, he still has that lowly, stupid face!". TO which Mari, smiling sheepishly, remarks "You're sure you didn't go down there just to see his face?" to which Asuka strongly denies, I just feel that Mari is letting on more than what we're led to believe.

Also, again those words she says to Shinji before he's ejected:

"Stop being such a baby" - to which Asuka also believes and is frustrated by it.

"Help out Princess at least!" - Why would she ask him -executer of third and fourth impact- of all people to help Asuka and why was Asuka expecting this? Yes, it's probably just to get him to act selfless and help someone in need, but after Asuka's punch to his face after his return from EVA-01, their battle in terminal dogma, third and fourth impact, EVA-03 battle, why expect his help?

"You're a man aren't you?" - Asuka is 28, Shinji is still 14 and as Asuka puts it, "Even after all this time, you're still nothing more than a troublesome BRAT!", why do I feel that Mari says this not just for Shinji's sake but also for Asuka's?

Anyway, your thoughts and remember, add, destroy or face palm this post, every one can.

[AlphaGamma]

"Help out Princess at least!" - Why would she ask him -executer of third and fourth impact- of all people to help Asuka and why was Asuka expecting this? Yes, it's probably just to get him to act selfless and help someone in need, but after Asuka's punch to his face after his return from EVA-01, their battle in terminal dogma, third and fourth impact, EVA-03 battle, why expect his help?

"You're a man aren't you?" - Asuka is 28, Shinji is still 14 and as Asuka puts it, "Even after all this time, you're still nothing more than a troublesome BRAT!", why do I feel that Mari says this not just for Shinji's sake but also for Asuka's?

Anyway, your thoughts and remember, add, destroy or face palm this post, every one can.

We've been there before and it does seem weird that Mari would say something like that. Taking the context into consideration, we can safely assume that the line was meant more as a provocation than anything else. Certainly, Mari doesn't believe that Shinji is in any condition to really help Asuka then and there. I think the real question is: why would Mari be interested in Asuka and Shinji getting closer? Possibly, she believes that Asuka and Shinji may help each other out by talking about their condition. As Elmariachi pointed out, Asuka may have gone through similar experiences and i'm pretty sure Asuka herself isn't in a great psychological state... Considering that she's started to call other people Lilin, i think we can also assume that she's lonely and she doesn't really consider herself part of the group.

It's also possible that the line may be foreshadowing of future events in 4.0, in which Shinji will have to help Asuka doing something plot-relevant, that we have no way of knowing atm.

Also, Asuka wasn't really expecting Shinji to help her; she's simply pointing out a fact in an attempt to "guilt-trip" him, making him react and understand how selfishly he's acting. What ticks her off is seeing Shinji in a fetal position. Now, we don't really know this for sure, but Asuka herself may have wished to give up during the 14 years spent fighting (ofc she could never afford to...). It isn't surprising that seeing him in that state would piss her off.

[ElMariachi]

@ wiser3754 : well Mari seems to like to push them toward one each other that's for sure!
Now, as many things that can be interpreted in different ways :
- Mari seems to absolutely love trolling Asuka(when she waited before supporting her during operation US, by calling her "Princess"...), so since Asuka used her time-off to go visit Shinji, Mari used that to troll her further, besides Asua as always been very easy to tick off, even more after the time skip!
- or maybe Mari as a plan to bring them closer : Mari could have learned more about Asuka and hos she see and feels toward Shinji from the past 14 years together(even if Asuka probably never talking frankly about it, she could have let slipped some tidbits here and there, and with time Mari got the whole picture), and from her last encounter with Shinji himself 14 years ago, she knows that even though he tends to run away from his problems, once he's in the right mindset the boy fight like a beast with a lot of courage(and it indeed take a lot of courage to fight Zeruel on close quarter!).
You can put you ship-goggle and think that she's trying to play matchmakers because she have the hunch that they are made for one each other(and if Shinji is cursed too, that makes him the only boy Asuka could date!), or even without ship-goggles, maybe Mari think that both would benefit from the other experience : Asuka would shake Shinji out of his immature and selfish bubble and make him get a hold of himself, and Shinji could help Asuka feel less alone in the world, if the theory that she's ostracized from the rest of mankind and got similar experiences of being feared and treated as a dangerous test subject are true.
From the Tsurumaki Interview in the 2.0 CRC, Mari is described as someone at the same time "wise" and "a little crazy", and her behavior certainly support this : she's very detached, take everything as a game, but can become completely serious and focused once the situation get really serious.

As for why she asked Shinji to help Asuka, Mari knows that Shinji isn't an enemy and wants to help : remember that in Lilith's chamber when Shinji talked to Asuka and said that he wanted to retrieve the spears to save the world and not finish 3I job, he was using his EVA's loud-speakers(same for Asuka, they logically don't have each other's frequency to communicate via the intercom) so Mari too heard that Shinji had good intentions and is "just" being manipulated in finishing 3I.
Besides Shinji's behavior wasn't aggressive at all : his "offensive use" of the RS Hoppers consisted to push back Asuka with their ATF, and the most violent thing he did was a slap to get her out of atop him, that's really tame compared to Asuka's berserked frenzy!

And for the "14 years" of age gap between them, if Mari's objective is just to have them mend their friendship and benefit from their respective experiences, then the gap isn't important. And even if she want to play matchmaker, we don't know how much Asuka matured with 14 years trapped in an early teenager body with her personal experiences reduces to "fight and survive", and if Shinji has the curse of Eva too, then it would be even more easy : in a little more than five years he will be an adult, and then even if he's twenty and she's in her early thirties, they both have a 14 years old body, so who cares!

But something that would be interesting to see is if Asuka really considers herself an adult : sure she calls Shinji a "brat" but she never take a point on saying that she's an adult. But if she did, that would be a very interesting inversion of her character in NGE : in NGE she was a kid(13 years old at the beginning, 14 near the end) that wanted to be treated as an adult, which only served to support the fact she's still a child, and now in 3.0 she's technically an adult(of the same age than Misato before even!), but trapped in a child body. Or better yet : maybe she don't want to be considered an adult, maybe she wants to continue with her childhood to experiment all these new things that Misato talked about during their telephonic conversation in 2.0, but the post-N3I, her true age and probably the rest of WILLE's personnel forces her to act like an adult, which effectively robbed her of any chance of a childhood... while not letting her enjoy adulthood either since she's trapped in a child's body!

But anyway, I'm sure that Asuka's and Shinji's interactions and relationship will be pivotal in Final, every other film focused in Shinji's interaction with another character : Misato in 1.0, Rei in 2.0 and Kaworu in 3.0, now it's time to explore Shinji's relationship with the last of NGE's characters that marked him the most : Asuka.



On a side note, I would like to speculate about Rei Q in Final : in the same Tsurumaki Interview in the 2.0 CRC, he said that one of the early plans for Rei in 2.0 was to really die and be brought back in 3.0 as Rei III and seize the opportunity to really explore the theme of one's own identity when you're a clone. But finally it didn't happened like that, and I think that's because even then people would suspect that this is still "our" Rei : the series, EoE and later the CI outright confirmed that Rei I, II and III souls are the same(Lilith's) and that her memories are uploaded, so the differences in every character come from her state of mind(a childish for Rei I, since she was a child, "normal" for Rei II and nihilistic and pissed off for Rei III because she's sick of being resurrected)
And that's why adding Rei Q was a genius idea from Anno : as it has been repeated time and time again in 3.0 : this Rei is not Rei II, nor Rei III, the later soul is inside EVA-01, so Rei Q is truly another entity only having the same kind of body than the previous Reis, and with it Anno can really explore the theme of what make someone's identity, they even got as far as make her official name "Tentative name : Rei Ayanami"! That means a lot no?
And Rei Q already started with her questioning about the fact that there was an "original" her, that she's "not Ayanami", when she saw the 12th Angel morph into a giant head with her face(complete with the killer question : "This is me? Who I am? What I am?"), and culminating at the end of the film were she lost the control of if Mark.09 and asked "What would Rei Ayanami do?" to which Asuka respond "I don't know, what do you want?!", and that a very important passage, because that's the first time Rei Q act from her own volition, but not as "Rei Ayanami", but as "herself", and unlike all the past Reis who were prone to sacrifice themselves, she choose to eject : she chosen to live! Why? Because she want answers about who she is, and she must live to reach these answers, that's also why she tag along Shinji and Asuka, because they are the one who make her questioning herself.

So something I could see in Final is Rei Q asserting her individuality by changing her name and her appearance : maybe she will let her hair grow, or cut her shorter(something similar happened in ANIMA), or dye them of another color... maybe she will keep the "Ayanami" surname as an acceptance that she have ties to Yui and the Ayanami series, but will still assert that she's not "Rei" Ayanami, but Yuna/Reiko/Alice Ayanami!
Besides, that would be the opportunity to sell more figurines at her effigy!

[wiser3754]

Also, Asuka wasn't really expecting Shinji to help her; she's simply pointing out a fact in an attempt to "guilt-trip" him, making him react and understand how selfishly he's acting. What ticks her off is seeing Shinji in a fetal position. Now, we don't really know this for sure, but Asuka herself may have wished to give up during the 14 years spent fighting (ofc she could never afford to...). It isn't surprising that seeing him in that state would piss her off.

What I find even more bizarre is that attempt to push guilt on him for not helping her is overshadowed by the fact that he started FOURTH IMPACT and makes no mention of it what so ever! Granted, that conversation is for another time but hell, it's weird she takes precedence of his behaviour in the plug than the events that just happened.
And yes, he didn't listen when he pulled out the spears which may tie into the "troublesome brat" act she's pointing out.

But what you said before about his behaviour in the plug being a reflection of herself at some point years back, I can believe that.

It's also possible that the line may be foreshadowing of future events in 4.0, in which Shinji will have to help Asuka doing something plot-relevant, that we have no way of knowing atm.

Honestly now that I think about it, I can see their trek through the desert not being a smooth one. Yes, they'll be words thrown about, but apart from that, I can see Asuka being injured to the point where she'll need Shinji's help if they're going to make it through.

Anyway, I going to close this chapter of the book of speculation and take it to another thread, just wanted some more clarity (I couldn't find the thread for this).

[riffraff11235]

So, any word on Eva-Extra 09 yet? I probably shouldn't be holding out hope for a July announcement of FINAL's release date, should I?

[Nuclear Lunchbox]

So, any word on Eva-Extra 09 yet? I probably shouldn't be holding out hope for a July announcement of FINAL's release date, should I?

With the release schedules from the past, it looks like that may be the soonest release date. It's sad, but it's soon.

[Stan]

With the release schedules from the past, it looks like that may be the soonest release date. It's sad, but it's soon.

I thought it would take a while longer too

[ElMariachi]

What's that "Eva-Extra 09"?

[wiser3754]

A quick question if anyone can answer, does Shinji's SDAT player have any inputs for recording to it?
I swear that there was a USB port on it.

There's a reason I'm asking, it's for a speculation post which I will post but only if the SDAT can record external sources via record inputs ala USB.

[Gendo'sPapa]

There might be. But I wouldn't put too much hope on it. I think it's just a very old SDAT. A relic that a boy foolishly holds on to.

Though when this four part series is over I think I'm gonna marathon the damn thing with a stop watch & keep a record of how long we actually spend looking at the damn thing. I'm betting at least 5 minutes of the entire franchise running time is going to be dedicated to close ups of that thing!

[iihieiii]

As for the debriefing, I was talking about the rescue team : Misato will probably want to debrief every members, and Asuka better pray that they are good liars, and willing to lie to Misato...

I didn't get it...why Misato want to debrief everyone and why they must lie???

I kind of like that idea, she still has angel contamination and in a way, she's become somewhat ostracised from the crew on the WUNDER. Sounds like she's in a similar position like Shinji (just not in scope) and treated with suspicion.

Wow...this actually make a lot sense ;P

Before I go, the words in the FINAL preview "He comes upon a place that teaches him hope" just keeps flowing through my mind and screams "HE'S GOING SOMEWHERE ELSE BESIDES THE WUNDER!!" and I can't shake the thought off, that's why I keep thinking he won't be aboard the WUNDER (at least, not for long).

Just how does the WUNDER and it's fleet get food, water, medical supplies, it's motley crew and not to mention where the thing was built just leads me to believe that there is a bastion of hope somewhere out there.

Again, feel free to add, destroy or face palm this post.

Those supplies things heavily suggest a "city" or a place undergoing somewhere, i'ts also reforced by the Asuka "Lillin call theory" or/and this final preview phrase "He comes upon a place that teaches him hope"


Nice thoughts guys ! This is why i love this forum ;P

[ElMariachi]

I didn't get it...why Misato want to debrief everyone and why they must lie???

wiser3754 wrote a theory that in FINAL, Asuka, Shinji and ReiQ will be picked up by a rescue team arrive in a Lilin settlement, and then, seeing just how mentally destroyed Shinji is, Asuka will take pity on him and fake his death to let him settle in the city and get his sanity back in one piece, after that once she get back in the Wunder, Asuka will probably have to make a debriefing to Misato(as it's the standard protocol in the army after an operation), Asuka will then have to lie to her, say that the crash of Shinji's entry plug killed him, and if Misato wants a debriefing from the rescue team to confirm what Asuka said or have some supplemental informations, then the rescue team will heave to lie too, and I really doubted that said team would be willing to lie to the Commander of WILLE's flagship, especially for the sake of a boy who was in a neo-NERV plugsuit!

[iihieiii]

So, any word on Eva-Extra 09 yet? I probably shouldn't be holding out hope for a July announcement of FINAL's release date, should I?

Actually I did this a few days ago trying to "speculate" i release date: (btw facepalm anytime ;P)

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Release Dates
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Japan
1.11 [September, 2007].........21 months later.........2.22 [June, 2009].........41 months.........3.33 [November, 2012]


USA VERSION
1.11 [November, 2009].........16 months.........2.22 [March, 2011].........**36 months.........**3.33 [March, 2014]
23 months from JAP 1.11 DATE

**Speculation Lauch

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4.0 Movie Possible Dates based on the last JAP movie 3.33 [November, 2012]
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** Sep/Oct 2013 ** ( 10/11 months) Considering the OVERTIME in 2.0 to 3.0

** August 2014 ** ( 21 months) Minimum time between movies

** June 2015 ** ( 31 months) Medium time between movies

** April 2016 ** ( 41 meses) Jez...2016 =/

[Giji Shinka]

When Khara posted that they needed 2D and 3D animators for 4.0 (I presume) how long it usually takes to finish the animation part? (We know that Anno puts a lot of detail onto his works so it might take a bit longer?)

[robersora]

^
I can't remember where it was posted, but some staff member gave a lecture at a Japanese university, in which he told that 3.33 was animated in 11/2 years. And he said, that it was done under high time-pressure. So considering that FINAL will be as long or even longer than 3.33 in running time, and full fledged work started around May, I'll predict a release in late 2014 or early 2015. But then again, FINAL was originally planned for 2013, so who knows, maybe they'll be faster.