Gendo in 3.0 and beyond
Moderators: Rebuild/OT Moderators, Board Staff
Forum rules
By visiting this forum, you agree to read the rules for discussion.
By visiting this forum, you agree to read the rules for discussion.
- driftking18594
- Nerv Scientist
- Age: 29
- Posts: 1660
- Joined: Sep 26, 2011
- Location: WILLE Irish Outpost
- Gender: Male
[SPOILERS] Gendo in 3.0 and beyond
One of the many things which strikes me as odd about Q is what has happened to Gendo's Scenario. After 2.0, I thought that the last thing Gendo would want for his scenario would be a broken Shinji - there would be a chance he would decide "everybody should just die" during the next Impact.
FanFiction.net profile
"Behold the great Ikari Master Plan™."
Terminally down bad for Asuka x Mari since 2013.
I just Shinji'd in my pants.
ONIAgent150 - "All hail driftking. May his horndoggery never end."
Chuckman - "You could ski on those boobs. Boob skis, man."
Catamari - "I'm shipping Shinji with his left hand."
A man can dream...
Rei IV - "I declare driftking18594 to be the poster child of LAM or Asuka x Mari fanboyery (yes, I totally made the word up)."
Avatar: Sometimes Asuka likes to be on top
"Behold the great Ikari Master Plan™."
Terminally down bad for Asuka x Mari since 2013.
I just Shinji'd in my pants.
ONIAgent150 - "All hail driftking. May his horndoggery never end."
Chuckman - "You could ski on those boobs. Boob skis, man."
Catamari - "I'm shipping Shinji with his left hand."
A man can dream...
Rei IV - "I declare driftking18594 to be the poster child of LAM or Asuka x Mari fanboyery (yes, I totally made the word up)."
Avatar: Sometimes Asuka likes to be on top
- Reichu
- Admin Emeritus
- Posts: 24046
- Joined: Aug 21, 2004
- Location: Sailing for the white shores
- Gender: Female
- Contact:
I can't say precisely what's going on, but apparently everything's going according to plan... (Is it ever not? ) He assures Fuyutsuki that "Seele's scenario is being rewritten by us", and tells Lilith's dismembered head, "The time for enacting our final plans is coming. Wait just a little longer, Yui."
Lots of Gendo and Gendo-relevant lines still pending translation at the moment.
Lots of Gendo and Gendo-relevant lines still pending translation at the moment.
さらば、全てのEvaGeeks。
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
Departure Message | The Arqa Apocrypha: An Evangelion Analysis Blog
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
Departure Message | The Arqa Apocrypha: An Evangelion Analysis Blog
Well after going though the translation thread I think I've figured out part of Gendo's plan. He's trying to get Shinji as fixated on Rei as he is on Yui. Gendo needs Shinji to do things a certain way in order to get his Reunion with Yui. And now it looks like Rei is stuck in Unit-01 as well. So if Gendo can get Shinji so he's willing to do whatever it'd take to get reunited with Rei, then Gendo can use it to get to Yui. Unfourtunatly this means that when Shinji rejects Gendo's plan, Rei will probably be lost.
I'm not sure what I feel about Eva anymore, but I'm pretty sure I don't actually enjoy the series anymore.
- Seele00TextOnly
- Phospholipid Bilayer
- Posts: 1806
- Joined: Sep 23, 2007
- Gender: Female
All through the series there are hints that Gendo isn't all bad, or at least uncaring about Shinji. Honestly if Rei's dinner party had gone down, it would have been a very major thing for Shinji and Gendo. Awkward I'm sure, but it could have been a start.
Someone said that Gendo is may not have wanted to get close to Shinji because he knows he'll be losing him again soon. And that's a possibility. Also, lets face it, Gendo sereously betrays Shinji again. By the time Gendo's plans for Shinji are done in 3.0, Shinji has lost Kawrou, and had to fight nearly everyone else he ever cared about. Gendo said you have to make sacrifices for your dreams, and he's sacrified not only any chance of ever reconcililing with his son, but possibly any chance of his son finding happiness.
And it may not be Shinji. I wonder if Gendo didn't find losing Rei 2 more painful than he anticipated. He may have delebriatly avoided forming any sort of relationship with Rei 9 so as to avoid that pain again.
Someone said that Gendo is may not have wanted to get close to Shinji because he knows he'll be losing him again soon. And that's a possibility. Also, lets face it, Gendo sereously betrays Shinji again. By the time Gendo's plans for Shinji are done in 3.0, Shinji has lost Kawrou, and had to fight nearly everyone else he ever cared about. Gendo said you have to make sacrifices for your dreams, and he's sacrified not only any chance of ever reconcililing with his son, but possibly any chance of his son finding happiness.
And it may not be Shinji. I wonder if Gendo didn't find losing Rei 2 more painful than he anticipated. He may have delebriatly avoided forming any sort of relationship with Rei 9 so as to avoid that pain again.
I'm not sure what I feel about Eva anymore, but I'm pretty sure I don't actually enjoy the series anymore.
- Kendrix
- Defender of Puppy Boy
- Age: 30
- Posts: 6697
- Joined: Jul 27, 2010
- Location: Germany
- Gender: Female
- Contact:
^This.
Even in the original series, look at the scene where he and Fuyutsuki discuss Rei's death.
Fuyutsuki offers something of an Eulogy. "She was this and this and stuff" ...Gendo keeps staring at the tube where he's presumably uploading the memories into the next clone.
He doesn't want to think about any loss taking place, he's telling himself that he can bring her back.
But he must've noticed. ReiII would never annoy random older women. Or wear red.
I mean, he couldn't bring her back.
Yeah, he made another lillith-enchanced humanoid, a perfectly functioning Third-Impact-trigger, but... it wasn't that girl who was loyal to him and thought of him as a father.
It really wasn't the gradual shift it's often portrayed/percieved as, sure, what she shared with Shinji was truer/more unconditional and she had her incecurities, but by ep 22, she'd still die for him (and this isn't blind obedience, this is proper loyalty. She doesn't want him insulted. Thinking of him makes her happy. She talks of trust. and she saw that last flash of his before her death...
And what's most telling, that last apparition of her picking up his glasses and holding them close to her heart, indicating that she never recanted her opinion.)
There's also Shinji's lapshading that Gendo isn't present in the hospital - of course, that could be hinting that he knows she doesn't need to be visited or that he saw her/spoke to her before... But him not being there may have begun to form her opinion of him as someone who's just using her and nothing more.
In episode 24, we see what looks like their usual teamwork, them silently standing together in EVA 01's cage, the implication that he sent her ... but in the same episode, we saw her question why she's alive and "for who".
So, it may have been a different sort of silence than usual (the "harmonic understanding" seen, for example, when they smile at each other in the episode 15 tube scene), and Gendo didn't notice. Or didn't want to notice.
He seems to keep that complete trust he has in her, (openly complaining to her, "put dummy plugs in all the EVas so I can controll them... but Unit Zero doesn't need one", etc...), protectively puts himself between her and Ritsuko's gun, and never even expects her betrayal.
But did he fail to notice that she wasn't the same (thus underlining Shinji's unique status), did he not care, or did he not want to see? Is it in-between? Yeah....
But it's also possible that he wasn't in the hospital in episode 23... because he didn't want to deal with that situation.
So, now imagine this happens over and over again, all these half-rotting heads Fuyutsuki showed Shinji...
We know that Gendo can't deal with loss. When he feels he can't do something, he gives up on it, he retreats. "Okay, everyone hates me, I accept that, I won't try and change that". Or his dealing with Shinji. He felt helopless to raise him, so he entirely retreated from the whole affair, only visiting Shinji on and off. Then something goes wrong at that "three years earlier" incident, and he breaks off all contact.
So if he saw those clones die over and over again, each of them less like the one he first knew, he would just stop caring after the upteenth Rei.
He would know that she'll die soon and not even bother bonding.
It's also the monkeysphere effect, there have been DOZENS in Rebuild, look at their rotten heads, how many clones could he know before they'd melt into one sea of "clone" and become a statistic?
The "retreating reaction" may also be the deal with Shinji, he flees the room suspiciously fast.
As he sees it, he probably sacrificed his beloved children to the project, killed them with his own hands(Q gives the blood splattering him during the zeruel battle a whole new spin), and Shinji being actually there, living, breathing, bawling interferes with that mindset, creates the illusion of a chance. So Gendo avoids him.
His logic probably is "It doesn't matter what happens to them because once I've triggered instrumentality, we'll all be back together and this pesky AT-Field won't keep me from explaining in a way that Shinji understands. Heck, Yui can do the explaining for me, she's actually good at that! I can fix it. I need to fix it because I already sacrificed so much"
Or, as he puts it in episode 24 "We cannot make the clock go backwards or stop it. We can only move forward".
A comparision with what drove Shinji to pull the spears is not too far off, mechanics wise, though Gendo knows a lot more about what he's actually doing and what it all costs.
He IS plotting to destroy the world, Shinji was trying to save it and horrified at the destruction.
This parallel is probably more meant to make Gendo less pitch black than it is to make Shinji look more like an asshole.
Even in the original series, look at the scene where he and Fuyutsuki discuss Rei's death.
Fuyutsuki offers something of an Eulogy. "She was this and this and stuff" ...Gendo keeps staring at the tube where he's presumably uploading the memories into the next clone.
He doesn't want to think about any loss taking place, he's telling himself that he can bring her back.
But he must've noticed. ReiII would never annoy random older women. Or wear red.
I mean, he couldn't bring her back.
Yeah, he made another lillith-enchanced humanoid, a perfectly functioning Third-Impact-trigger, but... it wasn't that girl who was loyal to him and thought of him as a father.
It really wasn't the gradual shift it's often portrayed/percieved as, sure, what she shared with Shinji was truer/more unconditional and she had her incecurities, but by ep 22, she'd still die for him (and this isn't blind obedience, this is proper loyalty. She doesn't want him insulted. Thinking of him makes her happy. She talks of trust. and she saw that last flash of his before her death...
And what's most telling, that last apparition of her picking up his glasses and holding them close to her heart, indicating that she never recanted her opinion.)
There's also Shinji's lapshading that Gendo isn't present in the hospital - of course, that could be hinting that he knows she doesn't need to be visited or that he saw her/spoke to her before... But him not being there may have begun to form her opinion of him as someone who's just using her and nothing more.
In episode 24, we see what looks like their usual teamwork, them silently standing together in EVA 01's cage, the implication that he sent her ... but in the same episode, we saw her question why she's alive and "for who".
So, it may have been a different sort of silence than usual (the "harmonic understanding" seen, for example, when they smile at each other in the episode 15 tube scene), and Gendo didn't notice. Or didn't want to notice.
He seems to keep that complete trust he has in her, (openly complaining to her, "put dummy plugs in all the EVas so I can controll them... but Unit Zero doesn't need one", etc...), protectively puts himself between her and Ritsuko's gun, and never even expects her betrayal.
But did he fail to notice that she wasn't the same (thus underlining Shinji's unique status), did he not care, or did he not want to see? Is it in-between? Yeah....
But it's also possible that he wasn't in the hospital in episode 23... because he didn't want to deal with that situation.
So, now imagine this happens over and over again, all these half-rotting heads Fuyutsuki showed Shinji...
We know that Gendo can't deal with loss. When he feels he can't do something, he gives up on it, he retreats. "Okay, everyone hates me, I accept that, I won't try and change that". Or his dealing with Shinji. He felt helopless to raise him, so he entirely retreated from the whole affair, only visiting Shinji on and off. Then something goes wrong at that "three years earlier" incident, and he breaks off all contact.
So if he saw those clones die over and over again, each of them less like the one he first knew, he would just stop caring after the upteenth Rei.
He would know that she'll die soon and not even bother bonding.
It's also the monkeysphere effect, there have been DOZENS in Rebuild, look at their rotten heads, how many clones could he know before they'd melt into one sea of "clone" and become a statistic?
The "retreating reaction" may also be the deal with Shinji, he flees the room suspiciously fast.
As he sees it, he probably sacrificed his beloved children to the project, killed them with his own hands(Q gives the blood splattering him during the zeruel battle a whole new spin), and Shinji being actually there, living, breathing, bawling interferes with that mindset, creates the illusion of a chance. So Gendo avoids him.
His logic probably is "It doesn't matter what happens to them because once I've triggered instrumentality, we'll all be back together and this pesky AT-Field won't keep me from explaining in a way that Shinji understands. Heck, Yui can do the explaining for me, she's actually good at that! I can fix it. I need to fix it because I already sacrificed so much"
Or, as he puts it in episode 24 "We cannot make the clock go backwards or stop it. We can only move forward".
A comparision with what drove Shinji to pull the spears is not too far off, mechanics wise, though Gendo knows a lot more about what he's actually doing and what it all costs.
He IS plotting to destroy the world, Shinji was trying to save it and horrified at the destruction.
This parallel is probably more meant to make Gendo less pitch black than it is to make Shinji look more like an asshole.
I wanted to try harvesting the rice
I wanted to hold Tsubame more
I wanted to stay together forever with the boy I like
I wanted to hold Tsubame more
I wanted to stay together forever with the boy I like
I wouldn't use what happened with Rei III from the original series here though. We know the soul is the same there. But in Rebuild it seems that they'd don't have that soul. And Rei III must have inherited something from Rei II if she left the choice to Shinji. Well that's how I interpeted it.
We can't take anything from the original series version of the impacts and Insturmentality and just assume they still apply. Although it is possible that Gendo is hoping for the magic understanding, I don't know if that's even part of his plans or not. We might not be seeing any tanging at all this time. Although Gendo hoping to use the easy way of getting Shinji to understand would be an intersting contrast to Shinji hoping he can get a Redo.
Just removing the smile during Unit-03's destruction alters things a lot. In the original it seems like at best he's happy the dummy plug works so well, and at worse is enjoying tourturing his son.
Of course another big thing is where is the soul of Rei 2.
We can't take anything from the original series version of the impacts and Insturmentality and just assume they still apply. Although it is possible that Gendo is hoping for the magic understanding, I don't know if that's even part of his plans or not. We might not be seeing any tanging at all this time. Although Gendo hoping to use the easy way of getting Shinji to understand would be an intersting contrast to Shinji hoping he can get a Redo.
Just removing the smile during Unit-03's destruction alters things a lot. In the original it seems like at best he's happy the dummy plug works so well, and at worse is enjoying tourturing his son.
Of course another big thing is where is the soul of Rei 2.
I'm not sure what I feel about Eva anymore, but I'm pretty sure I don't actually enjoy the series anymore.
Okay so the location of Rei 2's soul is known. Although the final fate is up in the air.
As has been said. Gendo is sacrificing everything for his dream. But he's not just sacrificing himself is he? He's sacrificing Rei, and he's sacrificing Shinji. I mean look what his plans have done to Shinji. Made Shinji. Shinji is never going to have a normal life. He'll be lucky to not be the most hated person ever, and he may well lose everything. Every singe person killed in 3rd impact? Sacrificed to Gendo and Seele's plans. "To what profit is it for a man if he gains the whole world, but loses his own soul in the process?" Well Gendo hasn't just put his own soul on the table. He's put Shinji's, and possibly Rei's on too. And here's the sad part. Good chance he won't suceed in his goals. That his last thoughts are again going to be asking for Shinji's forgiveness. But you know what? Gendo's feeling sorry last second won't fix a damn thing.
As has been said. Gendo is sacrificing everything for his dream. But he's not just sacrificing himself is he? He's sacrificing Rei, and he's sacrificing Shinji. I mean look what his plans have done to Shinji. Made Shinji. Shinji is never going to have a normal life. He'll be lucky to not be the most hated person ever, and he may well lose everything. Every singe person killed in 3rd impact? Sacrificed to Gendo and Seele's plans. "To what profit is it for a man if he gains the whole world, but loses his own soul in the process?" Well Gendo hasn't just put his own soul on the table. He's put Shinji's, and possibly Rei's on too. And here's the sad part. Good chance he won't suceed in his goals. That his last thoughts are again going to be asking for Shinji's forgiveness. But you know what? Gendo's feeling sorry last second won't fix a damn thing.
I'm not sure what I feel about Eva anymore, but I'm pretty sure I don't actually enjoy the series anymore.
- sum_exsanguis
- Adam
- Age: 35
- Posts: 78
- Joined: May 01, 2012
- Location: Baltimore
- Gender: Male
- driftking18594
- Nerv Scientist
- Age: 29
- Posts: 1660
- Joined: Sep 26, 2011
- Location: WILLE Irish Outpost
- Gender: Male
Well, some say that eyes are windows into one's soul. Perhaps Anno heard about that, but that would raise questions about Keel.
FanFiction.net profile
"Behold the great Ikari Master Plan™."
Terminally down bad for Asuka x Mari since 2013.
I just Shinji'd in my pants.
ONIAgent150 - "All hail driftking. May his horndoggery never end."
Chuckman - "You could ski on those boobs. Boob skis, man."
Catamari - "I'm shipping Shinji with his left hand."
A man can dream...
Rei IV - "I declare driftking18594 to be the poster child of LAM or Asuka x Mari fanboyery (yes, I totally made the word up)."
Avatar: Sometimes Asuka likes to be on top
"Behold the great Ikari Master Plan™."
Terminally down bad for Asuka x Mari since 2013.
I just Shinji'd in my pants.
ONIAgent150 - "All hail driftking. May his horndoggery never end."
Chuckman - "You could ski on those boobs. Boob skis, man."
Catamari - "I'm shipping Shinji with his left hand."
A man can dream...
Rei IV - "I declare driftking18594 to be the poster child of LAM or Asuka x Mari fanboyery (yes, I totally made the word up)."
Avatar: Sometimes Asuka likes to be on top
- sum_exsanguis
- Adam
- Age: 35
- Posts: 78
- Joined: May 01, 2012
- Location: Baltimore
- Gender: Male
- slothen
- First Ancestral Sloth
- Age: 37
- Posts: 2558
- Joined: Sep 12, 2006
- Location: Indianapolis
- Gender: Male
Re: [SPOILERS] Gendo in 3.0 and beyond
driftking18594 wrote:One of the many things which strikes me as odd about Q is what has happened to Gendo's Scenario. After 2.0, I thought that the last thing Gendo would want for his scenario would be a broken Shinji - there would be a chance he would decide "everybody should just die" during the next Impact.
darkwing wrote:Well after going though the translation thread I think I've figured out part of Gendo's plan. He's trying to get Shinji as fixated on Rei as he is on Yui.
This would be a departure from the original series. In the original series, Shinji gets in control of 3I by accident. This would imply that rebuild Gendo is grooming his son psychologically for his plan, rather than only using him to destroy angels and letting Shinji's sanity look after itself.
God, Apparently you all have been discussing Q since November. Catching up on the discussion is harrowing.
MAL Profile
MAL Profile
- pwhodges
- A Lilin in Wonderland
- Age: 77
- Posts: 11035
- Joined: Nov 18, 2012
- Location: Oxford, UK
- Contact:
Re: [SPOILERS] Gendo in 3.0 and beyond
As he pretty much says at the end of 2.0 (with respect to Shinji and Rei).
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: The end of the journey (details); Past avatars.
Before 3.0+1.0 there was Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: The end of the journey (details); Past avatars.
Before 3.0+1.0 there was Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)
- slothen
- First Ancestral Sloth
- Age: 37
- Posts: 2558
- Joined: Sep 12, 2006
- Location: Indianapolis
- Gender: Male
Re: [SPOILERS] Gendo in 3.0 and beyond
Oh right. Yeah.
At least its worth noting that this is a departure from the original series.
God, Apparently you all have been discussing Q since November. Catching up on the discussion is harrowing.
MAL Profile
MAL Profile
- Shinoyami65
- Seed of Life
- Age: 26
- Posts: 3926
- Joined: Jul 26, 2012
- Location: Vinculum Gate
- Gender: Male
I wonder what Gendo's plan really is... He must have a reason for waiting to kill Seele for so long... Considering that it was Nerv/Seele that launched Shinji into space in the first place, they must have a very good reason for wanting the timeskip to occur. Gendo also doesn't seem very sad that the world was devastated by Third and Fourth Impact, so evidently he's still stuck on "save Yui and bugger the world". His plan also doesn't seem to involve Fourth Impact, which was critical for Seele's plan (whatever that was...now we'll probably never know). He'll probably try and pull something with Final Impact. And fail too, probably.
E̱͡v͈̙e͔̰̳͙r̞͍y͏̱̲̭͎̪ṱ͙̣̗̱͠h̰̰i͙n̶̮̟̳͍͍̫͓g̩ ̠͈en̶̖̹̪d̸̙̦͙̜͕͍̞s̸̰.̳̙̺̟̻̀
I always thought I might be bad
Now I know that it's true
Because I think you're so good
And I'm nothing like you
I always thought I might be bad
Now I know that it's true
Because I think you're so good
And I'm nothing like you
- driftking18594
- Nerv Scientist
- Age: 29
- Posts: 1660
- Joined: Sep 26, 2011
- Location: WILLE Irish Outpost
- Gender: Male
Do you have any proof of this?
FanFiction.net profile
"Behold the great Ikari Master Plan™."
Terminally down bad for Asuka x Mari since 2013.
I just Shinji'd in my pants.
ONIAgent150 - "All hail driftking. May his horndoggery never end."
Chuckman - "You could ski on those boobs. Boob skis, man."
Catamari - "I'm shipping Shinji with his left hand."
A man can dream...
Rei IV - "I declare driftking18594 to be the poster child of LAM or Asuka x Mari fanboyery (yes, I totally made the word up)."
Avatar: Sometimes Asuka likes to be on top
"Behold the great Ikari Master Plan™."
Terminally down bad for Asuka x Mari since 2013.
I just Shinji'd in my pants.
ONIAgent150 - "All hail driftking. May his horndoggery never end."
Chuckman - "You could ski on those boobs. Boob skis, man."
Catamari - "I'm shipping Shinji with his left hand."
A man can dream...
Rei IV - "I declare driftking18594 to be the poster child of LAM or Asuka x Mari fanboyery (yes, I totally made the word up)."
Avatar: Sometimes Asuka likes to be on top
- Shinoyami65
- Seed of Life
- Age: 26
- Posts: 3926
- Joined: Jul 26, 2012
- Location: Vinculum Gate
- Gender: Male
- moonwolf2024
- Armisael
- Age: 39
- Posts: 917
- Joined: Dec 12, 2012
- Location: Deep Space, FL
- Gender: Female
Return to “Rebuild of Evangelion Discussion”
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests