Asuka says no to pot

This is the place to start: Feel free to introduce yourself, have general conversations and casual discussions about all things Evangelion, including chit-chatty topics like "Sachiel is adorable" or "Which Eva kicks the most ass?"

Moderator: Board Staff

amitakartok
Nerv Scientist
Nerv Scientist
User avatar
Age: 33
Posts: 1690
Joined: Jan 05, 2011
Location: The Ass End of Nowhere (TM)
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby amitakartok » Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:04 pm

View Original PostGob Hobblin wrote:stuff


The less said about the downsides of modern democracy, the better.


Returning to topic: a few months ago, I did think of a what-if scenario about Asuka pranking the others by feeding them drugs. Not to mention that there's really no way to tell how Rei's physiology would react to these chemicals. For example, what if shrooms act as very powerful antidepressants to her?

NemZ
Token Misanthrope
Token Misanthrope
User avatar
Posts: 15804
Joined: Jun 28, 2008
Location: St. Louis
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby NemZ » Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:12 pm

Well I was going to reply, but oh well.
Rest In Peace ~ 1978 - 2017
"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
"The internet: It's like a training camp for never amounting to anything." - Oglaf
"I think internet message boards and the like are dangerous." - Anno

Gob Hobblin
First Ancestor
First Ancestor
User avatar
Age: 40
Posts: 4233
Joined: Jan 12, 2013
Location: Behind the Door of Kukundu
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Gob Hobblin » Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:26 pm

NemZ, could you PM your response?

Amitakartok: That would be an awesome fanfic. Did you write any of it down? Now I'm thinking of all of Rei's different reactions to different drugs.

riffraff11235
Seed of Life
Seed of Life
User avatar
Age: 31
Posts: 3975
Joined: Jul 19, 2012
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby riffraff11235 » Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:32 pm

View Original PostDream wrote:Well, if you suddenly found yourself taking a on a new responsibility/burden because of something you don't really care about and that doesn't benefit you at all, that you don't even want it to be here, for the sake of people you might not even like, it's hardly a surprise that some people get pissed off.

I am honestly surprised that you get it just now, even if you're just talking about that particular case.

I did understand this back then. What I didn't realize is that Nemz's reaction to the spoiler policy stemmed from this general worldview, not just from the way this particular situation was being handled. This post just made his motives a bit clearer.
だから みんな 死んでしまえば いいのに... では, あなたは何故, ココにいるの? ...ココにいても, いいの?
"Cogito ergo sum." - Rene Descartes
"Men do not quit playing because they grow old; they grow old because they quit playing." - Oliver Wendell Holmes
Avatar: Asuka is superior. That is all.
PSN - riffraff-11235 Feel free to add me. PM me on EGF if you do.
Steam - rifffraff11235

League of Legends - riffraff11235
Osu! - riffraff11235

nervshatter
Banned
User avatar
Age: 34
Posts: 938
Joined: Jan 22, 2013
Location: South of Heaven.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby nervshatter » Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:35 pm

pfft if anything the characters from NGE could use some weed especially Shinji.
*sigh* just kill me already.

dfer131
Embryo
User avatar
Age: 26
Posts: 16
Joined: Sep 03, 2012

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby dfer131 » Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:39 pm

View Original Postnervshatter wrote:pfft if anything the characters from NGE could use some weed especially Shinji.


Would make an epic fanfic. Shinji on weed, Asuka on weed, Rei on weed, Angels and MP evas on weed... someone write this, NOW.
"Are any of us only Saints or Sinners?"

Jomei
Lilith
User avatar
Posts: 144
Joined: Jul 21, 2005
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Jomei » Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:56 pm

I love a lot of things about Japan, but their predominantly hypocritical, misinformed attitudes about drugs are not among them. Salary men stumbling home drunk, puking in train stations nightly? Daijoubu da yoooo, ki ni shinaide. Smoking a little weed? Dame! Zettai.

And I think it's lame to appropriate someone else's character to give greater credence to one's personal views, but whatever. If we're doing that, I say kick off the "Drop acid with Rei Ayanami" campaign. You, too, can compose existential poetry off the top of your head while you trip out inside a giant robot!
Last edited by Jomei on Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Clover
Leliel
Leliel
User avatar
Posts: 747
Joined: Oct 08, 2013

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Clover » Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:01 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if Asuka was already abusing prescriptions.

NemZ
Token Misanthrope
Token Misanthrope
User avatar
Posts: 15804
Joined: Jun 28, 2008
Location: St. Louis
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby NemZ » Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:36 pm

Rei + LSD would not be a good idea. She'd either be almost completely unaffected by the experience, just "these hallucinations are pointless" or she'd go on a journey into the very dark corners of her existence, maybe never to return as the Rei we know.

Give her a snort of blow though... the human body wasn't built for that much pokapoka.
Rest In Peace ~ 1978 - 2017
"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
"The internet: It's like a training camp for never amounting to anything." - Oglaf
"I think internet message boards and the like are dangerous." - Anno

Bagheera
Asuka's Bulldog
Asuka's Bulldog
User avatar
Posts: 18679
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:40 am

View Original PostNemZ wrote:No, it's just the principle that offends me. By what authority should any level of government be able to limit my choices about my own health and safety, or anything else that doesn't negatively affect the freedoms of others?


The authority that says they are expected to limit social harm. That whole spiel came about because people were tired of having people die because they weren't wearing their seat belts. They had to deal with losing friends and family members, losing productive members of society, hospital and funeral costs, etc. Like it or not you don't live in a vacuum; merely by existing you affect the lives of others, and if you have family or friends who care about you they want you to stick around. It's for their sake these laws exist, not yours.

The same goes for other "nanny state" laws; as a general rule we want people to live, and we want their quality of life to be good. So we pass laws to make that happen. Sometimes those laws aren't well thought out, sometimes they're ineffectual, but the intent is the same regardless. Does that impinge upon your rights and freedoms? Yep. But as I said it's not about you. It's certainly fair to argue that some of these laws aren't doing what they're supposed to do (certainly the case with drug laws), but if your argument is solely about personal freedom you're missing the point by a fair margin.

(one caveat: I'm not saying these values are intrinsically superior to the value of one's ability to make his/her own decisions on these matters, because that's a value judgement. What I think is most important will vary from what you do, and so on down the line. But if you buy into the basic axioms at work here the intent behind the laws is fundamentally sound. If you don't you might reach other, equally valid conclusions, but you'll also be at odds with the bulk of society.)

With all of that said: I'm not a fan of appropriating characters for this sort of thing. Hell, I'm not a fan of using them in advertising of any sort. No matter the intent behind the campaign I find the entire premise to be distasteful. The Schick campaign was pretty funny though.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

FriedlCore
Adam
User avatar
Age: 35
Posts: 66
Joined: Jun 01, 2012
Location: Germany
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby FriedlCore » Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:56 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:The authority that says they are expected to limit social harm. That whole spiel came about because people were tired of having people die because they weren't wearing their seat belts. They had to deal with losing friends and family members, losing productive members of society, hospital and funeral costs, etc. Like it or not you don't live in a vacuum; merely by existing you affect the lives of others, and if you have family or friends who care about you they want you to stick around. It's for their sake these laws exist, not yours.

The same goes for other "nanny state" laws; as a general rule we want people to live, and we want their quality of life to be good. So we pass laws to make that happen. Sometimes those laws aren't well thought out, sometimes they're ineffectual, but the intent is the same regardless. Does that impinge upon your rights and freedoms? Yep. But as I said it's not about you. It's certainly fair to argue that some of these laws aren't doing what they're supposed to do (certainly the case with drug laws), but if your argument is solely about personal freedom you're missing the point by a fair margin.

(one caveat: I'm not saying these values are intrinsically superior to the value of one's ability to make his/her own decisions on these matters, because that's a value judgement. What I think is most important will vary from what you do, and so on down the line. But if you buy into the basic axioms at work here the intent behind the laws is fundamentally sound. If you don't you might reach other, equally valid conclusions, but you'll also be at odds with the bulk of society.)

With all of that said: I'm not a fan of appropriating characters for this sort of thing. Hell, I'm not a fan of using them in advertising of any sort. No matter the intent behind the campaign I find the entire premise to be distasteful. The Schick campaign was pretty funny though.


All true, but why limitig this to illegal Drugs? It's allowed to advertise for alcohol, all you need to do is put a "drink responsibly" sign somewhere and everything is fine. Why is it okay to apply double standards there? That's right it's just lobbying to promote something dangerous and make it look harmless.

Bagheera
Asuka's Bulldog
Asuka's Bulldog
User avatar
Posts: 18679
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:26 am

View Original PostFriedlCore wrote:All true, but why limitig this to illegal Drugs? It's allowed to advertise for alcohol, all you need to do is put a "drink responsibly" sign somewhere and everything is fine. Why is it okay to apply double standards there? That's right it's just lobbying to promote something dangerous and make it look harmless.


It's okay because one is legal and one is not; fairly obvious distinction there. The question of whether or not the other should be illegal is a fair one, but it's also a separate issue.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

Dream
Evangelion
Evangelion
User avatar
Posts: 3284
Joined: Dec 08, 2011

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Dream » Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:47 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:The authority that says they are expected to limit social harm. That whole spiel came about because people were tired of having people die because they weren't wearing their seat belts. They had to deal with losing friends and family members, losing productive members of society, hospital and funeral costs, etc. Like it or not you don't live in a vacuum; merely by existing you affect the lives of others, and if you have family or friends who care about you they want you to stick around. It's for their sake these laws exist, not yours.


But why should we assume everyone has at least someone who gives a shit about them? And while the "loss to society" argument is pretty valid, i firmly believe that life belongs to that individual and that individual alone, so no one really has a right to tell them what to do with it. If it's their decision to waste it or renounce it... Well, it sucks, but it's their choice. Only exception of course would be in the case of this person having a mental illness or anything similar, or going at it because of a flawed reasoning.
"Every line is a joy" -Kaworu Nagisa.

"Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm." - Ralph Waldo Emerson.

Jomei
Lilith
User avatar
Posts: 144
Joined: Jul 21, 2005
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Jomei » Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:59 am

I have to agree with Dream. It's not the state's place to be the arbiter of what constitutes living a good life. They have to justify their use of power, or it is illegitimate. Such justifications are rare, but they do exist. For example, laws against drunk-driving have a clear justification, and virtually everyone agrees that state power is justly used in preventing that problem. The old rule of thumb that you can swing your arms as you please--until they would hit someone else--rings true.

But aren't we getting away from the topic?

Bagheera
Asuka's Bulldog
Asuka's Bulldog
User avatar
Posts: 18679
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:21 pm

View Original PostDream wrote:But why should we assume everyone has at least someone who gives a shit about them?


Because that's a lot more likely than the alternative.

And while the "loss to society" argument is pretty valid, i firmly believe that life belongs to that individual and that individual alone, so no one really has a right to tell them what to do with it.


The argument is less that we have such a right and more that other concerns trump it. Also, it's a numbers game -- if 9 out of ten people are idiots who will be hurt if we don't pass a law limiting a given behavior it's more important to address that than to worry about inconveniencing the one guy who can handle it.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

Dream
Evangelion
Evangelion
User avatar
Posts: 3284
Joined: Dec 08, 2011

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Dream » Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:30 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Because that's a lot more likely than the alternative.


I'm not entirely sure of how likely it is, but even then, for me it's important that this doesn't apply to all cases, so it shouldn't be held as an universal principle.

View Original PostBagheera wrote:The argument is less that we have such a right and more that other concerns trump it. Also, it's a numbers game -- if 9 out of ten people are idiots who will be hurt if we don't pass a law limiting a given behavior it's more important to address that than to worry about inconveniencing the one guy who can handle it.


Hmm, i admit i'm pretty uncertain on this one. On one hand, i don't think a right should be trumped by anything, even practical concerns. On the other hand, following such a principle could be seriously detrimental to quality of life. I don't know if i have much concern for idiots dying, however. "You deserve what you get" and all that.

But yeah, like Jomei said this is getting off-topic.
"Every line is a joy" -Kaworu Nagisa.

"Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm." - Ralph Waldo Emerson.

CJD
Banned
Age: 32
Posts: 4843
Joined: Jun 14, 2011
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby CJD » Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:33 pm

I, for one, appreciate Bag's relative neutrality on the matter.

Trajan
Test Subject
Test Subject
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 2838
Joined: Dec 19, 2010
Location: Tamriel
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Trajan » Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:42 pm

I simply find it hilarious that someone is using NGE characters of all things to make an anti-drug message when they're the kind of people who need it most.
Movin' Right Along
"Everything has its beauty but not everyone sees it." - Confucius
"All styles are good except the tiresome kind." - Voltaire

Dream
Evangelion
Evangelion
User avatar
Posts: 3284
Joined: Dec 08, 2011

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Dream » Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:44 pm

I don't know, i don't think i'd want to see how Shinji and/or Misato would react to mind-altering drugs. It would be something to remember at least in nightmares...
"Every line is a joy" -Kaworu Nagisa.

"Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm." - Ralph Waldo Emerson.

Bagheera
Asuka's Bulldog
Asuka's Bulldog
User avatar
Posts: 18679
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:53 pm

View Original PostDream wrote:I'm not entirely sure of how likely it is, but even then, for me it's important that this doesn't apply to all cases, so it shouldn't be held as an universal principle.


It doesn't have to be universal to be a valid basis for action -- see the numbers comment above. And, past that, it's something no one can know for certain anyway. You may think no one would give a shit if you died, but odds are that's not true. I mean if you're Charles Manson or someone like that maybe, but the average person would probably be surprised to learn just how many people would be affected by their death.

Hmm, i admit i'm pretty uncertain on this one. On one hand, i don't think a right should be trumped by anything, even practical concerns. On the other hand, following such a principle could be seriously detrimental to quality of life.


Pretty much. No right is absolute, no matter how fundamental. They all come with caveats.

I don't know if i have much concern for idiots dying, however. "You deserve what you get" and all that.


Three things:

First, even idiots get to live. No matter how much we might like to we don't get to whack 'em just because they're stupid.

Second, we all have our idiot moments. Think of the last time you did something really dumb, and imagine your reaction if people said "yeah, that's too dumb to live, see ya." That's a fairly daunting prospect for most of us.

Third, even idiots are loved. If the aim of these sorts of laws is to prevent collateral damage the question of what the idiot deserves is moot. Instead they're designed to protect the rest of us from their idiocy.

But yeah, like Jomei said this is getting off-topic.


Meh. The topic is about the use of Asuka in an anti-drug campaign, so talking about the legitimacy of that campaign and the reasoning behind it seems reasonable.

Edit: There's a good article on the complexity of the marijuana issue here. Good reading for anyone who says "Why are they doing this? It isn't a problem for me."
Last edited by Bagheera on Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.


Return to “Evangelion General and Chit-Chat”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests