Are we sure this is supposed to come from Shinji's mouth? Aren't those lines in text that flash on the screen? Before coming here, I took them to be a directors commentary, you know like a "Thank you for playing" kind of thing, that they were Anno's parting words, but everyone here says they're from Shinji. I'm curious why that's the conclusion?
Parting "Text" at end of EoTV
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Parting "Text" at end of EoTV
Making a new thread to prevent the risk of derailing the other one:
Are we sure this is supposed to come from Shinji's mouth? Aren't those lines in text that flash on the screen? Before coming here, I took them to be a directors commentary, you know like a "Thank you for playing" kind of thing, that they were Anno's parting words, but everyone here says they're from Shinji. I'm curious why that's the conclusion?
Are we sure this is supposed to come from Shinji's mouth? Aren't those lines in text that flash on the screen? Before coming here, I took them to be a directors commentary, you know like a "Thank you for playing" kind of thing, that they were Anno's parting words, but everyone here says they're from Shinji. I'm curious why that's the conclusion?
- TehDonutKing
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Alternatively, Gendou's Instrumentality was meant to be temporary. After Shinji learns to like himself, he returns to physical form, and finds his friends and parents congratulating him. Shinji realised that what Gendou did was for the best, so he thanks him. That was what I came up with about five minutes after watching EoTV the first time, and I haven't found any evidence that suggests otherwise.
/hj
I said and did some dumb and hurtful things in my time here when i was younger. If i ever hurt you, i'm sorry. If you see any of this while reading old threads, i'm learning and trying to improve. Donut redemption arc in progress.
I said and did some dumb and hurtful things in my time here when i was younger. If i ever hurt you, i'm sorry. If you see any of this while reading old threads, i'm learning and trying to improve. Donut redemption arc in progress.
How bizarre. I always thought it was obvious that this was Anno speaking, not Shinji. I never knew anyone thought of it any other way.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
- TehDonutKing
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I thought it was obvious that it was both of them. To each vis own, I guess.
/hj
I said and did some dumb and hurtful things in my time here when i was younger. If i ever hurt you, i'm sorry. If you see any of this while reading old threads, i'm learning and trying to improve. Donut redemption arc in progress.
I said and did some dumb and hurtful things in my time here when i was younger. If i ever hurt you, i'm sorry. If you see any of this while reading old threads, i'm learning and trying to improve. Donut redemption arc in progress.
Why does his mother have to be dead to say goodbye to her? Shinji's mother isn't dead either, you know.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
TehDonutKing wrote:Alternatively, Gendou's Instrumentality was meant to be temporary. After Shinji learns to like himself, he returns to physical form, and finds his friends and parents congratulating him. Shinji realised that what Gendou did was for the best, so he thanks him. That was what I came up with about five minutes after watching EoTV the first time, and I haven't found any evidence that suggests otherwise.
That makes sense... but the corollary is kind of strange: all of Gendo and SEELE's (and Yui's, if you buy that speculation about her agenda) plots turned out for the best? If 3I didn't happen, Shinji would still be self-hating, the people killed in EoE would stay dead, the ones who'd prefer to stay tanged would retain their identities, etc, etc.
If his mother wasn't departing/departed in some sense, what reason would he have for saying goodbye?
Not even going to go into it.
"Why should things be easy to understand?"
-Thomas Pynchon, whose works I've never actually read
-Thomas Pynchon, whose works I've never actually read
Admittedly, I don't know much about Anno's depression pre Eva, but could it be him saying something like "Goodbye mother, I'm finally moving on"? True, the unattributed part does throw a cog, but it's not uncommon for a director to put messages at the end of their works, sometimes after credits, sometimes before. Also, why the "And to all the children of the world", why does Shinji say that?
I realize the first parts a stretch, but if he was very close with his mother it fits I think, more so then Shinji randomly congratulating the children of the world.
Well, I find it hard to believe this takes place in the physical world.
SPOILER: Show
Where is he standing if that's the case? It's clearly not supposed to be flat earth ground, as the curves are much too noticeable for that angle/picture. Perhaps on a summit of a hill, but it looks to be somewhat high up. Possibly he's standing on the black moon, but I think the black moon is to big for, again, the curves to be that noticeable.
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CJD wrote:Where is he standing if that's the case? It's clearly not supposed to be flat earth ground, as the curves are much too noticeable for that angle/picture. Perhaps on a summit of a hill, but it looks to be somewhat high up. Possibly he's standing on the black moon, but I think the black moon is to big for, again, the curves to be that noticeable.
Shinji has just made his decision to end Instrumentality. Individuality has been restored, and they are congratulating him on his correct decision. No one has reembodied yet, not even Shinji, thus they are still in a surreal landscape.
Rejoice, glory is ours. Our young men have not died in vain. Their graves need no flowers. The tapes have recorded their names.
I am all there is.
Negative! Primative! Limited! I let you live.
But I gave you life.
What else could you do?
To do what was right.
I'm perfect, are you?
I am all there is.
Negative! Primative! Limited! I let you live.
But I gave you life.
What else could you do?
To do what was right.
I'm perfect, are you?
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Perhaps it needs to be mentioned that the ENTIRETY of EoTV takes place in surreal landscapes. The big blue ball at the end is no more direct evidence of the characters' physical states than all the WTFness prior to the "Instrumentality begins" caption in #25.
さらば、全てのEvaGeeks。
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
Departure Message | The Arqa Apocrypha: An Evangelion Analysis Blog
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
Departure Message | The Arqa Apocrypha: An Evangelion Analysis Blog
Who cares? I don't consider that any more relevant than an author's dedication or afterward in a book. I don't ask why the author's thanking a parent or some random person, so why should I inquire here?
Past that, it could be a reference to growing up and leaving the home. It's not an inappropriate sentiment for such an occasion. It's not an appropriate sentiment in Shinji's case, since his mom is right there with him at the end of EoTV. He has no more reason to say goodbye to her than anyone else.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
- TehDonutKing
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@Korgan and CJD
All of EoTV is screwy, even the parts before Instrumentality begins. Just because the final scene doesn't appear to be part of reality doesn't mean it isn't.
Also, no one who died in EoE died in EoTV. They're completely different endings.
All of EoTV is screwy, even the parts before Instrumentality begins. Just because the final scene doesn't appear to be part of reality doesn't mean it isn't.
Also, no one who died in EoE died in EoTV. They're completely different endings.
/hj
I said and did some dumb and hurtful things in my time here when i was younger. If i ever hurt you, i'm sorry. If you see any of this while reading old threads, i'm learning and trying to improve. Donut redemption arc in progress.
I said and did some dumb and hurtful things in my time here when i was younger. If i ever hurt you, i'm sorry. If you see any of this while reading old threads, i'm learning and trying to improve. Donut redemption arc in progress.
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Episode 25 begs to differ :
10m 38s in
10m 43s in
This however I agree with. EoTV is Gendo Wins, humanity moves on past Instrumentality, and Shinji is just one of the latecomers to emerge from the talking cure into a comfortable consensual scene inside the communal noosphere.
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Doesn't that have more to do with the fact that you're a fan of high concept transhumanism than it does with anything actually in the show?
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
Odd question when transhumanism is all over the place in the show.
Rest In Peace ~ 1978 - 2017
"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
"The internet: It's like a training camp for never amounting to anything." - Oglaf
"I think internet message boards and the like are dangerous." - Anno
"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
"The internet: It's like a training camp for never amounting to anything." - Oglaf
"I think internet message boards and the like are dangerous." - Anno
- BornIn1142
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"Who cares?" It seems to be that rationalizing this text is vital to understanding it and its context in the ending. I get that you have it all figured out and don't see the need to explain the conclusions that are so obvious to you, but "How does that explanation make sense?" seems like a crucial bit to me.
"I'm afraid you can't create tragedy out of abnormal psychology." - Andrew Sarris.
Usually not as a good end, though. If we're going to suggest that this is Gendo's good end we should do it within the framework of the show and not in the context of a hard liftoff idea that probably doesn't apply.
AFAICT all we know for sure is that Gendo wanted to be with Yui; the rest seems to be pretty baseless. I'd really like to see a translation of Gendo's end from NGE2, as it might tie up a lot of loose ends (I don't think Reichu's gotten to that one yet, though I could be wrong).
BornIn1142 wrote:"Who cares?" It seems to be that rationalizing this text is vital to understanding it and its context in the ending. I get that you have it all figured out and don't see the need to explain the conclusions that are so obvious to you, but "How does that explanation make sense?" seems like a crucial bit to me.
If you're serious about that you might want to read the whole post before complaining. I addressed the above directly in the part you cut out.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
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