Studio PIXAR Thread (iow: TDSA vs the sh33ple)

[MugwumpHasNoLiver]

Just so you all know, I don't think anything good can come of this thread, and I'm not sure why Xard keeps trying to engage in civil debate with TDSA, when it's obvious that neither of them are ever going to see eye to eye. However, I am fond of watching slow train wrecks. The screeching metal is like music to my ears, as is the sizzling of burnt flesh and the screams of the innocent slowly dying. On that note, I'd like to bring this bitch to its logical conclusion, by playing devil's advocate with all of you.

TDSA, please to tell what your criteria for a 'mature' work entails. Also, do elaborate on the cynical insight you've gained during your employment in a toy factory.

Xard, what does TDSA's obvious hypocrisy have anything to do with Pixar's position as a quality animation studio?

I myself am of the opinion that Pixar does produce quality work, but I wouldn't say they've made anything truly great. I'd say nothing they've made is a masterpiece, but they continually put out very good films.

[Twin Drive Sigma Aquarion]

Snow White, of course. You didn't know this? Really?

I had a feeling it might be, but I'm not an animation expert.

I guarantee you that Snow White has better animation than any anime you've ever seen.

How exactly?

On the other hand though, nowadays animated movies are usually thrown away as children movies because of Disney's movies (understandably).

Why Heavy Metal is an awesome movie and the best animated movie made in America, awe yeah.

[EvangelionFan]

And my response to your question is that most people are sheep, once some well-known and beloved people love it, the majority fall in line.

Right. So, to focus on the main aspect of my question...

...please tell us why you dislike Pixar based on the content within their films.

Personally, my favourite Pixar film is Toy Story - primarily because it deals in a simple and distinguishable cast of characters whose personalities, conflicts and understandings of each other make their story highly memorable. It's also backed by a reasonable soundtrack that builds upon the character and moral themes presented in the story, and I can recall no moments in any viewing where I felt the editing or cinematography clashed with the intention or development of the story, so I suppose in a filmic sense, it works fine.

Secondly I'd probably say a three-way tie between Toy Story 2, Wall-E and Up - I like Toy Story 2 as it builds upon the foundations of the first film and goes in exciting new directions with it; Wall-E is a space opera romance that fully satisfies the science fiction geek in me, and when I saw Up last year I couldn't believe that such a confronting set of themes could be communicated hand-in-hand with the vibrance of youth alongside an adventure epic.

Edit: To echo Mugmump, I also feel that Pixar continues to produce quality work and that while their films are good, it is only in sections or when seen under certain light that they appear to be great. For example; I felt the way I did about Up when I saw it because it I was having one of my bad days where I don't think the best of myself; and Up helped to bring me out of that and back into a constructive state of mind. Similarly, I've seen both Toy Story films numerous times, and while they are favourites; I feel they are slightly behind works such as My Neighbour Totoro and Castle in the Sky.

[toe mash]

How exactly?

In terms of how fluid it is, how everything is full motion animation, how detailed it is etc. Snow White might be the pinnacle.

Most anime have rather choppy animation, dude. Sometimes it's justifiable but nevertheless crap is crap.

[Dartz]

It was the first famous one.

The same reason Christopher Columbus is regarded as the man who discovered America. There're at least 2 western claimants to the title... including one Saint.

And that's not including the Indians.

[Twin Drive Sigma Aquarion]

the content within their films.

The content in their films are basically selling toys, geez, third time I've said this! If it helps I'll give you a source:

http://www.cracked.com/article_19012_5-hollywood-secrets-that-explain-why-so-many-movies-suck.html

Go to number 1.

TDSA, please to tell what your criteria for a 'mature' work entails. Also, do elaborate on the cynical insight you've gained during your employment in a toy factory.

To answer part one, don't be kid friendly. Problem solved. For part two, I can't explain it in text, it's something you need to see for yourself by actually working as a toy vendor for a few months. Do you have ANY idea how much money Disney makes off of by merchandising? Money, it's what the companies want and as long as you can sell it right you can profit off of it to anyone.

[Xard]

Just so you all know, I don't think anything good can come of this thread, and I'm not sure why Xard keeps trying to engage in civil debate with TDSA, when it's obvious that neither of them are ever going to see eye to eye. However, I am fond of watching slow train wrecks. The screeching metal is like music to my ears, as is the sizzling of burnt flesh and the screams of the innocent slowly dying.

it looks like our motivations are pretty much in-line, aren't they?

I hope CAP gets around delivering some sweet lecture on early Disney's importance to the medium sooner or later...

(also, Ghibli's stuff like Spirited Away etc. are better looking than Snow White. Just sayan'. That's not what this topic is about anyway so please no retarded death matches here)

TDSA, what makes title mature?


and you do realize most mecha anime (including all Gundam) largerly exist to sell toys, right?

[Twin Drive Sigma Aquarion]

and you do realize most mecha anime (including all Gundam) largerly exist to sell toys, right?

I can't buy any merchandise from an anime I've seen, mainly because I don't know how or it gets no US release, so that doesn't apply to me.

Seriously though, they're toy adds?

[MugwumpHasNoLiver]

To echo Mugmump, I also feel that Pixar continues to produce quality work and that while their films are good, it is only in sections or when seen under certain light that they appear to be great. For example; I felt the way I did about Up when I saw it because it I was having one of my bad days where I don't think the best of myself; and Up helped to bring me out of that and back into a constructive state of mind.

Up is actually the film I had in mind, probably because it was the last Pixar film I've seen. The first ten or twenty minutes, although a bit over-sentimental, are both breath-taking and heart-breaking. But that's when the film peaks for me. The rest of the film is a thoroughly entertaining, and very well crafted adventure yarn that has this powerful emotional significance playing out in the background, but isn't in itself anything extraordinary. My only qualms with Pixar is that, as good as they are they are at touching my heart, they never touch my mind. But then again, I don't think I've ever seen an intellectually engaging family film.

[esselfortium]

The content in their films are basically selling toys, geez, third time I've said this! If it helps I'll give you a source:

http://www.cracked.com/article_19012_5-hollywood-secrets-that-explain-why-so-many-movies-suck.html

Go to number 1.

That's not an answer. On what grounds are you ignoring any actual content of the films and claiming that they exist solely to sell merchandise? You haven't explained anything.

To answer part one, don't be kid friendly. Problem solved.

I'm pretty sure "Courage The Cowardly Dog" is more mature than "Hostel".

For part two, I can't explain it in text, it's something you need to see for yourself by actually working as a toy vendor for a few months. Do you have ANY idea how much money Disney makes off of by merchandising? Money, it's what the companies want and as long as you can sell it right you can profit off of it to anyone.

By this logic, you should hate the hell out of Evangelion and basically all other anime that exists

[Twin Drive Sigma Aquarion]

I'm pretty sure "Courage The Cowardly Dog" is more mature than "Hostel".

Realistic body parts being tortured less mature than something that can air on TV? Well I've never seen Hostel so I can't comment.

By this logic, you should hate the hell out of Evangelion and basically all other anime that exists

Why would that be?

[Xard]

Realistic body parts being tortured less mature than something that can air on TV? Well I've never seen Hostel so I can't comment.

...are you seriously so stupid that you think violence is automatically mature?

Why would that be?

oh god your troll-fu is through the roof here


I'm not actually all that huge Pixar fan and I despise Disney but at least I have something that resembles basic rationality when discussing these things. You're stuck in preteen phase of dissing everything "childish" that does not excite mature viewers such as yourself

[esselfortium]

Realistic body parts being tortured less mature than something that can air on TV

Thanks for proving my point so implicitly :)

Why would that be?

I'll give you three guesses.

[MugwumpHasNoLiver]

To answer part one, don't be kid friendly. Problem solved.

I see. Now, for a follow-up question. What is kid-friendly to you? Should a mature work deal with adult themes that wouldn't be comprehensible to children, such as death, employment, relationships, addiction, war, politics, etc? And, furthermore, not simplify these things, and treat them with the respect and complexity that they deserve? Or can a mature work be just as morally and intellectually simplistic as work targeted towards children, but feature things such as nudity, swearing and violence?

EDIT: Never mind, you answered it already.

For part two, I can't explain it in text, it's something you need to see for yourself by actually working as a toy vendor for a few months.

Don't be silly, this is a cop-out and you know it. Anything can be explained in text. If things couldn't be explained with words, we wouldn't have things like prose fiction, journalistic articles, screenplays, etc. Never underestimate the power of the written word. You've worked as a toy vendor, so you can show us with words. If you don't think your capable of doing that, then you should have never brought it up in the first place.

[GasmaskAvenger]

Twin Drive...


blood and guts cannot fill in the spots for competently written characters and a decent story


I, for one, would watch Monsters, Inc. again over something like "Cornered!"

[Twin Drive Sigma Aquarion]

...are you seriously so stupid that you think violence is automatically mature?

Depends on the violence itself. With that logic Family Guy is more mature than the Feast trilogy. We have this thing called the MPAA to distinguish that stuff.

oh god your troll-fu is through the roof here

How? I'm not trolling, I really want to know why.

I'll give you three guesses.

Well you did say all anime ever so that narrows it down quite a bit.

1. Advertisement
2. Critics and fans
3. Legacy

Now, for a follow-up question. What is kid-friendly to you?

Anything rated G.

blood and guts cannot fill in the spots for competently written characters and a decent story

There's this guy called Go Nagai, I suggest seeing some of his works 'cause that stuff can easily fill up stories easier than you think.

[GasmaskAvenger]

Anything rated G.

back in the 60s and 70s, there were some fairly hardcore G and PG rated movies

not like super NC-17/unrated schlockfests, but stuff that has more balls than modern day G and PG rated movies

[Defectron]

We have this thing called the MPAA to distinguish that stuff.

The MPAA is full of hacks, seriously from what I have heard the people running it have no criteria to be distinguishing anything.

Anything rated G.

See this sort of view is actually pretty detrimental to the movie industry. Because a lot of people who make movies think the same way as you. Biut things weren't always like this, it used to be that a G or PG rated movie could be geared to other audiences without pandering to expectations about who is the target audience simply based on ratings. A good example of this is the original invasion of the body snatchers. This is a G rated movie, but as a child this film scared me more then any of the R-rated movies I had ever seen as a kid. The reason why is that the story was brilliantly told. All the thrills and guts of other films couldn't come close to scaring me as much as that had when I was a child.

I feel that any pre conceived notion that limits what a movie should be, like the pre conceived demographics the public expects ratings to pander to can only hurt the industry.

There's this guy called Go Nagai, I suggest seeing some of his works 'cause that stuff can easily fill up stories easier than you think.

Depends what your looking for , while go nagais works do have their place, so do movies like invasion of the body snatchers

[Twin Drive Sigma Aquarion]

invasion of the body snatchers

I found that movie was horrible, mainly due to the lack of an ending.

[esselfortium]

I found that movie was horrible, mainly due to the lack of an ending.

This sure is a Pixar discussion thread