Postby 1731298478 » Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:28 pm
Here are the first two parts of the Tsurumaki interview. The usual disclaimers apply.
I got a bit confused about the grammar of one statement, and the context of another. I left them in Japanese; I will return to them, though.
Other parts that I was uncertain of have footnotes with the Japanese.
Corrections/suggestions are strongly appreciated!
------
"A major turning point following the 'Prelude' premiere"
"『序』の公開直後に大きいな転換点へ"
--- To begin with, I'd like to speak with you for the program to be distributed before the premiere. According to Chief Director Anno's intention, it was decided that we would "publish an interview with Makki entitled 'the man who destroyed Eva.'" [1] Before we begin, I'd first like to confirm that you were made aware of that intention.
[1] "Destroy" [破壊] is a play upon "Break" [破].
Tsurumaki: This seems suspicious (laughs). As far as making me into "the criminal resposible for destroying [Eva]" is concerned, I'll resist with all my might.
--- Only, if we look at "Break" as a destroyed Eva, surely everyone would want to know the details of how and why this happened. むしろひとりの視点の方が混乱しなくて良いかも・・・・・・というのが私の意見でもあるので、どうかよろしくお願いします。
Tsurumaki: As far as [the title] "Break" is concerned, Anno-san probably discovered a new reason for it part of the way through. As usual. Although, I think it would have been better if Anno-san had taken the lead in destroying [Eva] himself. [It would surely have been difficult for him to destroy it. I think he well understood that, and had no choice [but to do as he did]. ???3] However, it was not myself alone who destroyed Eva. Even Masayuki-san, or Sadamoto-san, who writes the manga, would have been fine [for the interview].
[???3] きっと自分では壊しづらかったんでしょうね。それはものすごくよく分かるし、仕方がないとも思う。
--- This successful "destruction" was unexpectedly the core [of the film]. So [the conception of] a "jo - ha - kyuu" [序破急] structure where you would begin destroying Eva in the second part was not present from the beginning?
Tsurumaki: In the initial stages we thought more in terms of a recap or summary film; we didn't think that we would "break" [anything]. We decided upon the subtitles "jo - ha - kyuu" themselves relatively early on. They only had the meaning "1, 2, 3" - at the time I didn't think that "ha" ["Break"] had any special significance. The development of the story of "Break" was already underway before we started work on "Prelude." [?4]
[?4] 『破』のプロット開発は『序』の現場に入る前に、すでに進んでました。
--- I have the impression that the development of "Prelude" and "Break" began at the same time.
Tsurumaki: Right. We decided, with relatively few objections, that we would bring "Prelude" to a climax with episode six of the TV series, and immediately after that we began developing the story of "Break." However, work on "Prelude" became increasingly hectic, so we decided to just focus on making "Prelude" first. We returned to "Break" once we had just about finished "Prelude".
--- For my part, I was reading through the script for "Break" around the time "Prelude" was completed (the latter part of August 2007). Also, (Shinji) Higuchi-san was supposed to have drawn the storyboards for "Break" that summer. At this point, the contents [of the film] are probably quite different [than they were, at that point].
Tsurumaki: It would turn out that more than just the plot would be developed further. In any case, after the premiere of "Prelude," Anno-san proposed that we include more of the new character, Mari, and it was decided that we would revisit the script. My impression was that "Prelude" was recieved more favorably than expected; furthermore, the preview for the next film was very well recieved. So, I think Anno-san probably thought, "I want to give the viewers more service." Probably, [his] specific means [of doing that] was to place Mari more prominently [in the film].
--- Considering Anno's "spirit of service," that would naturally be the case, right? So, that would lead to [Anno] increasing the number of Mari's appearances?
Tsurumaki: The truth is, at the earliest stage of planning, Mari was such a character that, in the extreme case, if she hadn't spoken at all, it would have been okay. For example, Misato just reading the materials on her, [and saying] "It seems that Unit-05 was in Hong Kong and had a battle with an angel. The pilot was this person" - would have been fine, I think......
--- In that case, she would become an amazingly weak character.
Tsurumaki: Yeah. The appearance of a new character and Eva Unit-05 was requested by executive producer (Toshimichi) Ootsuki-san. I think the motive was a commercial one - to strengthen the appeal of the film. 庵野さんには負担をかけたくないから、貞本さんのキャラ表があって本編中に正規のキャラクターとして登場するのであれば、それでいい。そんなニュアンスだったんですね。
--- Surely, the new films themselves become a burden to the extent they represent a story that preexists the new character; you had to "create carefully," right?
Tsurumaki: [Yes,] because at first we intended [simply] to summarize the original series. For example, the current structure in which the new character is actively involved before the main titles was put in place at that stage in the film's plot [development]. In addition, [she] would appear only once more, watching the battle just before the climax. That was the extent to which she appeared.
--- So, she was hardly related to the characters of the original story.
Tsurumaki: It's Anno-san's usual method. He allows possibilities to remain without making up his mind. By no means have things been decided. Because, if he was bound to a decision, he wouldn't be able to do anything but that. He was still undecided about how to handle her, and at that time he probably thought that introducing her but leaving her without definite relations [to anything] would be safe for the moment.
--- I see. In a different set of circumstances, [???5] I would also have thought, "As expected, the storyline of Eva is quite fixed, and new interventions are not possible."
[???5] 別の事情として、
Tsurumaki: Naturally. Therfore, daring to have her appear at the core of the story, even more, bringing her close to the centre of the drama - in short, we intended to make her a character who would change the story. That was the major shift following the premiere of "Prelude."
"What occured with the increase of Mari's scenes" [?]
マリの登場シーン増加で発生したこと
--- The result being that [the story] would become increasingly different from the script that you had prepared?
Tsurumaki: We were almost starting everything over again. We had hardly thought about what would be changed, and how it would be changed, in order to incorporate Mari. It was from that point, I think, that we really began.
--- So, the question of how to destroy Eva ends up really being the question of how to connect Mari [to the existing story].
Tsurumaki: Right. However, while we had resolved to change [the story], Anno-san had for one reason or another not thought at all about the elements of Mari's character. As a result, I was continually requesting explanations in regard to them. When I requested an explanation of Mari's character before we began doing the storyboards for the pre-title sequence, Anno-san gave me a rather abstract, "thematic" explanation.
--- "Thematic?"
Tsurumaki: It was, "By introducing Mari, we will destroy the world of Eva." Concerning this idea of Mari as a character who represents the subtitle "Break," the explanation that we would directly project her "thematic" character traits onto the story was not sufficient, so I just smiled and nodded. However, we were about to draw the storyboards without something essential - Mari's concrete character was undetermined. The resulting stress would continue for a long time [after that].
--- The establishment of her character - in other words, her personality?
Tsurumaki: Is she a girl with a calm demeanor, or a girl with an intense personality, or a "dojikko" (clumsy girl)? Even that much wasn't clear. I felt like it changed each time the script was revised. Even if the theme of her character was "the destruction of Eva's story," there were numerous concrete ways you could conceive of doing that. In the extreme case, she could "steal" Shinji and destroy all his relationships up to that point, or act as a "nonsense" character who would destroy the "serious" worldview [of Eva]. As there was no trace of a [fixed] methodology according to which she would destroy [Eva], the arguments concerning her continued endlessly.
--- Which parts did the arguments center upon?
Tsurumaki: Certainly Mari's appearances had increased. Furthermore, if there were scenes where Mari appeared by herself, that was still fine. Even in the early stages of the plot['s development], we didn't really feel that such scenes were a problem. The difficulty lay in her relationships with other characters. Especially, if we intended to portray a relationship between Shinji and Mari, it would entail strange things happening. At one point she would have Rei Ayanami's role in relation to Shinji, at another point Asuka's, at another point Misato's. There was a sense that her character was changing depending upon the circumstances of each scene. In the first place, if it's Rei's role, Rei herself can do it, and if it's Asuka's role, Asuka herself can do it. To the extent that this newly arrived character, Mari, is just partially substituting for roles that other people have carried out up until now, the story itself is really unchanged. My impression was, if that's going to be the case, Mari is probably not needed.
Because a new character is introduced, naturally, it's already become a different story, but if we step back and look at it, almost nothing has changed. That's useless. As a result, on one occasion Anno-san handed off this problem to (Youji) Enokido-san. Basically, he told [Enokido] that he wanted to create a plot in which Mari's character was more developed. It's not a brief story; I remember thinking that it was quite a serious situation. For my part, because I thought the fact that Anno-san was writing the scripts himself was an important characteristic of the new films, it [seemed] all the more [serious]. Partially because of that, Enokido-san's position, it seemed, was that he would absolutely not submit plots or scripts, but [only] ideas. What came out of this was an extremely eccentric, interesting, Enokido-like idea. In short, [Enokido] proactively made use of the fact that Mari could not simply act as a substitute.
--- In specific terms, how did [Enokido] intend [Mari] to act?
Tsurumaki: To put it simply, it was an idea where Mari completely usurped Asuka's role. For example, Asuka is unable to pilot Unit-02, because Mari is constantly getting to things before Asuka. Mari even thrusts herself into the middle of the relationship between Shinji and Asuka; [Asuka is] completely thwarted. Even though Asuka makes a great effort to fulfil the role she played at the time of the TV series, because Mari is always there it becomes impossible for her to do it; something like that.
--- That's interesting.
Tsurumaki: The reaction of Asuka fans to it would probably be terrifying (laughs). Because, in Enokido's idea, Asuka, thwarted by Mari, is never able to pilot Unit-02. There were voices on the staff pointing out the size of the risk [involved], but Anno-san somehow understood [the idea], saying, "Well, I'm going to take that idea and put it in the script." However...... [this idea] immediately went back to the drawing board (laughs). [6] For example, when Asuka tries to pilot Unit-02 at the time of the battle with the eighth angel, she is told by Ritsuko, "Mari, the pilot who arrived on short notice from Europe, can pilot Unit-02, so you are on standby." Asuka is mortified. That was Enokido's idea, but in Anno-san's script, he changed it so that the two of them would be piloting Unit-02 together (laughs).
[6] これがすぐにまたもとに戻っていくんですよ (笑)。
--- "Ninin-Baori" (laughs)? [7]
[7] This is where someone sits behinds you, usually concealed, and acts as your arms. Here is a clear example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSnKvNh1HfM !!
Tsurumaki: It's excusable to just focus on the good things, but [Anno] was trying so hard to please everybody that the story was becoming confusing. Probably Anno-san thought that the story would not change unless he could deeply connect Mari to it, and for this reason he tried to place all the responsibility for changing the story upon Mari. Nevertheless, contrary to his intentions, even though he had tried to introduce Mari, he was not able to change the story.
--- It's as though some mysterious, compelling force was operating.
Tsurumaki: But, I somehow understand that everyone experiences this. We don't change [so easily], even though we swear, "starting tomorrow, I will change!" (laughs) Being unable [to change] despite knowing [you should]; that's something common to everyone. I think, in due time, Anno-san will reveal the real reason [for its existence] himself, but when Masayuki-san first did the storyboards for the battle with the eighth angel, the scene where the two pilot together was storyboarded, based upon the plot [at that time].
--- How [did Anno] get them both onto [the Eva]?
Tsurumaki: It's as though Asuka secretly got on ahead of time (laughs). It wasn't just there, [though]. Things like that continued to happen almost entirely throughout. So, we were truly in difficulty. [Anno] said there would be changes in "Break," and in practice more than 90% [of the film] was [comprised of] new scenes, but, even though we had taken the trouble to produce this new material, the story had not changed. Of course the situations, the characters, and the dialogue had changed. However, if we examine the significance of what was done there, we will get something like, "Eh? This happened in episode xx," or "This scene [could go] in episode xx."
--- Hmm...... It's as though you repainted [Eva], but the sense or significance of the TV series rose to the surface from the foundation.
Tsurumaki: So, it was coming to seem like a summary version made with some slightly new material. A while ago, I had been told that the "Evangelion" TV series was quite rigidly fixed; it was, I think, certainly like that. [?8] It seemed like, if you change things in one place, things go badly not only there but elsewhere as well; a host of derivative problems arise. If you try to fix it, it's an enormous task to make the story consistent everywhere. [?9]
[?8] さっき言われた「TVシリーズの『エヴァンゲリオン』がかなり強固だった」という感じは、そういう意味では確かにあったと思うんですよ。
[9] それを修正しようとすると、あちこちで膨大な処理というか、つじつま合わせをしなきゃいけない。
--- Even if it goes well, won't the "spirit" of the original series still end up dwelling there?
Tsurumaki: Yes. This sort of thing continued, and for a while we were truly in difficulties. I think that was the main reason the script couldn't be fixed, and that as a result [we] spent so much time doing storyboards.
--- Even though they were deliberated to the point of staging a retreat for the script, there were some things that just couldn't be "boiled down," right? [10]
[10] 脚本のため、合宿をされるほど検討をされても、煮詰めきれないものがあったということでしょうか。
Tsurumaki: Well, I think the Atami Retreat, which Enokido-san participated in, was extremely worthwhile. An audacious idea for the last scene, which was almost all right [as presented], emerged there. That was the development, which remains now, whereby Shinji rescues Rei. As far as the film's climax goes, the work to be done after that hardly concerned us. The difficulty was arranging for Mari's involvement, [which was necessary] in order to bring the story to that point. The most simple solution was - just as in the early stages of the story - to keep Mari's appearances to a minimum, to leave her with no relationship with Shinji or Asuka, and for [the story] to follow a course similar to the TV series. In the end, this [approach] would go the most smoothly. [11]
[11] 結局、一番すんなり行くんですよ。
--- A course leading up to episode 19 of the television series. [?12]
[?12] 第拾九話相当の流れということですね。
Tsurumaki: Yes. Strictly speaking, the part corresponding to episode 19 incorporates parts [of the series] from up to episode 23. Rei self-destructs in the TV series; [here] Shinji rescues her, and she is not made to self-destruct. Keeping things the same besides that was the safest way to do it. However, Mari had appeared [in the story], so she somehow had to act; we had to leave a path open for Mari. That was the most stressful [part].
CORE wrote:The thing about Q+Final speculation is that unlike 1.0-2.0 the only speculation can be based of what was not done or what you think their intentions where.. one of which is endless possibilities.. and one of which even if you base there intentions off there word of mouth change over time... unlike 1.0-2.0 which for the most part where to the name a rebuild. Q+Final is going to build of what exactly.? rebuilding a dream like experience is hard.. and even harder to speculate on.
--while the red GNR's expression seems to be spaced out, maybe even aroused. (Which wouldn't surprise me since GNR is weird like that.)
