Evangelion 2.0 CRC: Enokido Interview

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Postby Fazmotron » Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:54 am

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:Thanks again so much for doing this by the way, 1731298478. :kaos_bow: These are excellent and interesting resources for us to have!


Yes, top notch good chap.
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Postby NAveryW » Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:09 am

The part that I find the most interesting is that Anno disliked some of Enokido's changes but didn't protest. What a Yamato nadeshiko.
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Postby Rawinder » Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:24 pm

View Original PostSeele00TextOnly wrote:Why... why did they have to cut so much? Why couldn't it just be over 120 minutes?


Because believe it or not, the industry is not run by hardcore Eva fans who'd like nothing more than to sit in a movie theater for 4 hours. There are practical, financial considerations to be made when making a movie.

The longer a movie is --> the fewer showtimes it has in the theater --> the less money it makes at the box office --> the less money the next film gets.

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Postby Seele00TextOnly » Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:37 pm

If I may, I wasn't talking about an extra 2 hours of material. The interview made it clear we're talking about roughly 20-30 minutes, easily doable for most audiences. And again, they kept plenty of scenes they could have rewritten or trimmed as exampled by Essel and Luc's comments.

Now, I know that the theatrical movie business is in decline, and there is more pressure than ever to keep things at or under 2 hours in order to maximize how many showings (and thus, tickets) that the theater can do in a day. But again I refer to the Haruhi example; it can be and is still done.

Getting back on topic moreso perhaps, this goes back to them not planning the movies appropriately. There should have been a coherent vision that accounted for these things, that had a clear plan of what to do with the new character before the new character is committed to, and etc. They could have very easily written Shamshel out of 1.0 and moved Asuka and Kaji's arrival into that movie, perhaps with even something like Clockiel. Then if they really needed to keep Asuka out of the Ramiel fight, I'm sure they could have somehow. Or written her into it, have two Eva's have to hold up the shield or something. Honestly, this isn't that hard.

(/me again runs away for homework)

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Postby NAveryW » Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:56 pm

Anno's never done stories by coming up with the whole plotline first. If you've read the Toshio Okada interview, he said Anno always makes his stories up sequentially as he goes along, and I'm not sure why anyone would expect any different of him this time around. That's "how he does things".
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Postby Rawinder » Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:29 pm

View Original PostSeele00TextOnly wrote:Getting back on topic moreso perhaps, this goes back to them not planning the movies appropriately. There should have been a coherent vision that accounted for these things, that had a clear plan of what to do with the new character before the new character is committed to, and etc.


It's impractical and, frankly, a waste of time to plot out four feature-length stories before even the first one goes into production. There are just way too many variables involved to even consider, not the least of which is the fact that a lot of writers end up thinking of something better (or at least different) down the road. I mean, hell, isn't that what happened with the original series? The scenario written out for the show before production started was pretty much thrown out, and the series became something else entirely.

I can understand the frustration, from a fan's point-of-view, of writers and filmmakers not having everything--or at least, a majority of the storytelling--mapped out ahead of time. But from a writer's point-of-view, that kind of task is not just (needlessly) difficult, but ridiculous.

Anno's "grand vision" for Rebuild was to take the original series, streamline it, introduce new material to keep it fresh, but do it all in the spirit of the show. Both movies have fulfilled that.

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Postby Lucretius » Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:19 pm

View Original PostRawinder wrote:I can understand the frustration, from a fan's point-of-view, of writers and filmmakers not having everything--or at least, a majority of the storytelling--mapped out ahead of time. But from a writer's point-of-view, that kind of task is not just (needlessly) difficult, but ridiculous.

It's not like the TV show had a proposal with episode summaries. That would've been ridiculous.

Anno's "grand vision" for Rebuild was to take the original series, streamline it, introduce new material to keep it fresh, but do it all in the spirit of the show. Both movies have fulfilled that.

[citation needed]

He shuddered a bit, remembering the somewhat creepy level of detail Kaji had gone into, while rubbing a watermelon in a disturbingly sexual way.

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Postby Ornette » Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:27 pm

View Original PostLucretius wrote:It's not like the TV show had a proposal with episode summaries. That would've been ridiculous.

The proposal had short summaries for all 26 episodes.

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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:43 pm

I didn't have time to read these amazing translations, thanks a lot 1731298478.
I'd need some time to elaborate things out, right now I've mixing feelings.
I probably would have liked the movie to be longer (like everyone else) and include some of these concepts but if their idea was to cut things out there weren't other ways to do it, I already stated in the past, in NGE (and even more in the "old" theatrical feature, EoE) the other characters are all at different degrees "secondary characters" (that'd include both Rei and Asuka to a certain extent), I'm not that sad about it (but hopefully things will play out differently in 3.0 and the finale at least in the regard of the total length).
Personally I would have liked to see the rivalry between Mari/Asuka and Shikinami/Asuka but it could have worked out only with an extended duration. You can say that Mari would have ended up being little more than a Soryu's clone but it's not true, her desire to live with others, her attitude towards Shinji, many things were different, she'd only superficially look like Soryu and on the other hand Shikinami would have developed more decently (the only thing that I've to criticise about the final 2.22 is her development, it seems somehow missing of some points even though they ended up using that bed scene as a linking between the first arrogant Asuka and the "enlightened one" as proposed by Enokido).
Yet right now things could end up developing in a even more original way and maybe at least some of these concepts will be reused...
Anyway I love Enokido now, I had no idea that he was the one who proposed Rei's (temporary? I hope that they'll change their mind) saving.
I'll have to decide when I'm going to watch Utena now...

Indeed but it's also true that they were used only as basic guidelines, most events played out differently (could we consider NGE nothing more than a guidelines for NME? Am I blaspheme?).
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Postby 1731298478 » Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:02 pm

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:Thanks again so much for doing this by the way, 1731298478. :kaos_bow: These are excellent and interesting resources for us to have!


npnp ^__^ It's fun and interesting to do them, even if they're very strange.... Only, I didn't use my Japanese for a while, so there are dumb mistakes, and I'll revise all the translations later. Hopefully I can give people a sense of what's being said, and improve and get faster over time.

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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:32 pm

View Original PostLucretius wrote:A lonely female character who shows interest in Shinji? NGE has too many of those already. Even the pre-battle lecture followed by a smooch is nothing new--Misato does it in EoE.

Too many? Two of them? It's not enough at all for Shinji's personal harem.
Jokes apart: Evangelion's characters are largely inspired by Nadia but probably most of you guys didn't watch it before Evangelion (my countrymen and probably the French could be an exception, Nadia was pretty popular in the 90s here; it was one of my favourite anime as a child but of course I didn't analyse it seriously until I watched Evangelion so I probably fall in the same category of those who didn't watch it until after Evangelion) and you don't seem to give it that much importance; it's not necessarily a bad things that a character borrows elements from another one if at least it ends up being improved in some other aspect, most anime characters tends to fall in some category, there are rarely "completely original" characters (IF there's a similar thing).
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Postby Azathoth » Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:40 pm

View Original PostHyper Shinchan wrote:it's not necessarily a bad things that a character borrows elements from another one if at least it ends up being improved in some other aspect, most anime characters tends to fall in some category, there are rarely "completely original" characters (IF there's a similar thing).


Yes, but when you put these unoriginal characters in the same universe as the ones they're based on, it feels a little bizarre. Mari arriving in Rebuild feels like they had Simon and Naota turn up or something, and the weird part is that this appears to be completely intentional. I seriously don't understand why a character who you can non-negatively describe as "doesn't fit in at all with the tone of her setting and supporting cast" was ever invented.
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Postby LiLi » Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:58 pm

Personally, I rather like Mari the way she is portrayed in the movie. Granted, she lacked development and so on, but I am referring to her personality-quirks-behavior-overall style.

This said, I am RELIEVED they did not use that proto!Mari who went about melon patches kissing Shinji to give him a reason to fight-oh. Personally, my inner reaction upon reading that was along the lines of :headdesk:

I would like to see Mari interact with the rest of the cast, at least Reiquarium and Asuka. Since they're going to bomb us with yuri!fanservice anyway... :tongue: (Not that I'm complaining).


I like me some Shikinami in my Rebuild (and I was never the biggest Asuka fan, mind you). But I could never shake the feeling her character and relationship development felt forced/sudden.

I sort of understand that they opted to focus on Shinji. And I don't dislike REShinji. But somehow, the reasoning just doesn't work too well for me overall if it ends up meaning the rest of the cast (even important members, and I'm not just referring to Asuka) don't get developed properly and seem to just be a "function" of the main character, their onscreen life having to somehow be about HIM because "we have no time". It just feels... too forced.

So yeah, no smooching in melon patches for me, thank you...

This said, I enjoy Rebuild.
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Postby NAveryW » Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:29 am

Life will be much more fun once you discover sarcasm!
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Postby NAveryW » Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:34 pm

Oh, yes, I forgot to ask:
View Original Post1731298478 wrote:if we insert a scene with Hikari's sisters in pyjamas or changing clothes, we can hope for a "'Gundam's African Front'-like Economic Result."
What's the "Gundam's African Front" thing this part refers to and how does it relate to the proposed fanservice scene?
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Postby Kendrix » Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:37 pm

THANKS A LOT FOR THE TRANSLATIONS!
YOU GUYS ARE MY HEROES!
Keep translating more, expecially Anno's Interview and the Voice Actor's Interviews (At least Sakamoto did one, didn't she?)

...So the final scene WAS meant as a heroic thing! Hehe, I was right!
I didn't dare to believe that this was an ep 23 substitute, tough. But it was. It freakin' was. It just shows how freakin' unconditional Rei's love is. She. meant. to. sacrifice. herself. "Even if Ikari-kun won't pilot anymore".
The Jerk LEFT her (as lampshaded by Misato) and she still went to die for his sake. Yes, she did the same thing in the Series, but the situation in which she does it makes it much more amazing. I'm shocked by how the entire meaning of that scene was changed by a little sentence. "Even if Ikari-kun won't pilot anymore". That and the SDAT Player. That's all it took.
They were going for an Orpheus/Izanagi-ish thing, but with a way more pleasant Ending to shock us all. He was meant to be dragging her out of hell. Hell. This movie never ceases to amaze me.
"Even If Ikari-kun won't pilot anymore." It just hit me like a fucking brick that this is the new "I want to become one with Ikari-kun".

About the Mari thing.
What Anno did was utilizing the ressources of his personel. I feel reminded of that documentary where he's shown harnessing the potential of young children in an excellent way (right after claiming that he's "not good with kids". This. Guy. Is. Amazing.)
Mari was supposed to introduce something the other character's didn't have, she should be "completely new" and "destroy old EVA", - but whatever character Anno would come up with, she'd still be 'tainted' by his signature and feel unneded because most of the contend of his head is already represented. It was a great ideo to leave the "raw drafts" to his collegues and THEN do the "fine tuning" himself.
Which he did, I mean, just look at Tatoo!Seriuous/adult-like/cloning Kajis speech but with more fanservice/Misato ripoffing/taking Asukas place as Reis rival/MarySueIshAnimalCollector!Proto Mari.
Ridiculous.
Of course they would thing a lot and try different things out. The Eva cast was already that finely composed so it was hard to squeeze in a new character. But they did that finely. Mind you, I'd probably hated Proto!Mari had they used her, but most here should know that I soo love Finished!Mari. I think making her a mysterious, idependent rogue element was the magic touch.
Her living at Nerv, (with Hikari for gods sake!) much like the Nerv Trio would make either her or the nerv children obsolete. I germany, we tend to say "weniger ist mehr" (less is more). Giving her excatly as much appearences as she had in the final draft, no more, no less (and not including her in the "Daily life" of the children at first) did the magic.
There's so many characters that are kept "mysterious".
But Mari is different. Despite so few appearances, her presence is clearly there, her personality radiates from her. We know EXACTLY what kind of person she is even if we know so little about her exact goals.

It would have neer occured to me, but comparing Mari to a Miko is just so perfect. She's still a human ´with weird quirks and weirdly collored outfits, but "in touch with the gods" as in that she has all this knowdlege... In a way, she's almost as wise as, let's say, Kaworu, but she talks in much simpler ways (not being "unwordly")
Well. She is a Miko until she enters the entryplug. The early drafts had her as a warrior, adult like/serious person (talk of "severe Situation", Rivalry with Asuka), but I kinda love the "restrainlessness" of the final Mari. The way she fights, how she just walks up to Shinji to sniff at him, the whole smell fixation...
Still. Mari as a Miko(and that whole paragraph) strikes me as surprisingly fitting... I think I love her even more now that I know what horrible Prototypes the final draft of Mari saved us from and now that I know the ideas behind her.
I still think that she is, to an extent, "Willpower" (She was going to coax Shinji into action from the beginning), but she's also "the earthling in contact with the gods", the simple girl acting on her own in a big net of conspiracies, the girl talking to her Evas (=>Gods).

Mari Illustrious Makinami. The bestial Priestess of Evangelion, a worthy addition to the "confusing (sexueally) powerful female" and the "unearthly fragile girl". In between (Pink Plugsuit!) and yet completely and radically different from both of them (green plugsuit)
Honestly, I really miss Mari when I rewatch NGE nowadays. It's just not the same without her.
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Postby Xard » Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:02 am

1731298478, I hereby declare you to be by far the most awesome new member who has joined the forum during year 2010. Never ever leave us ;____;

Lovely, lovely interview and drafts. Enokido is mad bastard and I love him for it. Are you going to translate Anno's interview? I sure hope so as that would be the most interesting one, without doubt :)

Reactions in this thread have been downright hilarious, I must say :hahaha:

Anno has never ever planned out in large scale far ahead: that is NOT his creation method, it doesn't come naturally from him. In this respect he is incredibly similar to Hayao Miyazaki (propably not coincidental as Miyazaki is Anno's "sensei"). Ghibli starts animation process by the time he has only finished about 3/4 of storyboards, and of course these storyboards are further modified down the road. This is pretty crazy and financially dangerous method of writing but evidently it has worked for decades.

Anno fretted over how he was going to end Nadia for ages. NGE and EoE being written on the spot goes without saying. Love&Pop's bonus material features a lot of footage that was never used: the crew even travelled to Okinawa and shot "holiday" scenes for days. And none of this material ended up being used!

When the day came to shoot Shiki Jitsu's climax Anno turned up on scene saying "I have no script" and explaining development of the scene in abstract sense, leaving actors's improvise many minutes long continuous take. This wasn't out of sloppiness or lazyness either, he wanted the raw improvised feel. And it worked damn well too.

This is how he has always worked. I don't see why you guys get all panicked over the fact Rebuild is being conceived in the same way. Remember that back in 2006 they tried to brainstorm outline for all 4 films and and the ending beforehand. Needless to say they failed. :lol:

And these things are called drafts because they are drafts, full of crazy shit, halfway coherent plot threads etc. (do I need to remind you guys about werewolf Asuka?) . As GP said you'd have hard time finding major Hollywood production based on existing property without similarly crazy drafts in perhaps even larger quantities. Aragorn vs Sauron duel comes to my mind immeaditly

Well, at the very least these interviews finally buried once and for all the retarded "Asuka being Eva-03's pilot was last minute tweest" myth going around.

I also have no idea why this kind of brainstorming also suddenly means lack of overall vision.

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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:54 am

Good points, Xard; I don't know much about studio Ghibli (and even less about Hollywood) but I was pretty sure that this was the method Anno always used (with success) in the past.
So let’s make a wish.
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Postby Kendrix » Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:01 pm

View Original PostHyper Shinchan wrote:Good points, Xard; I don't know much about studio Ghibli (and even less about Hollywood) but I was pretty sure that this was the method Anno always used (with success) in the past.


Yeah. Expecially the Mari things. They created her from scratch. Of couse they tried out different things before deciding what would be best.
Anno is also utilizing his staff's potential to the fullest by leaving them some free room/using their ideas.
If the first drafts are much wose than the finished product, It means that they have improved/had bether ideas in the meantime. Whatever was left out was left out for a reason.

Oh, and more translations plz. XD You're my heroes!
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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:05 pm

EDIT:
View Original PostNAveryW wrote:Oh, yes, I forgot to ask:What's the "Gundam's African Front" thing this part refers to and how does it relate to the proposed fanservice scene?

My post has been moved rather than deleted, sorry for my mistake.
http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=403586#403586
Last edited by Hyper Shinchan on Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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From the book “All About Nagisa Kaworu: A Child of Evangelion”.


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