SPLIT: Asuka in Q/3.0.

[Bagheera]

Asuka hating, and wanting to hate, Shinji? Sounds like things might just be going the same way as last time after all.

Is there really any evidence Asuka might go this route, though? If anything she seems less inclined to hate Shinji this time around than in NGE, and the dummy system is by definition not Shinji's fault. So why would she hate him?

I could see a whole heapin' pile of hate for Gendo, of course; not only did he give the order, but he forced Shinji to carry it out. But I think Shinji's pretty solidly in the clear with her.

[Lucretius]

So why would she hate him?

Don't make me come over there.

[Chrad]

Is there really any evidence Asuka might go this route, though? If anything she seems less inclined to hate Shinji this time around than in NGE, and the dummy system is by definition not Shinji's fault. So why would she hate him?

The assumption is that she wouldn't be acting entirely rationally, with Bardiel having drawn the ugliest parts of her to the surface. Getting past this repulsion towards others would then be her main struggle, just like the Asuka of old.

[Bagheera]

The assumption is that she wouldn't be acting entirely rationally, with Bardiel having drawn the ugliest parts of her to the surface. Getting past this repulsion towards others would then be her main struggle, just like the Asuka of old.

I guess I'm not clear on why Bardiel would have any influence on her at all. I've only seen 2.22 a couple of times, but I don't remember anything indicating the pilot had actually been corrupted. What did I miss?

[Sachi]

Is there really any evidence Asuka might go this route, though? If anything she seems less inclined to hate Shinji this time around than in NGE, and the dummy system is by definition not Shinji's fault. So why would she hate him?

Asuka is naturally inclined to blame Shinji. It's not as if she was completely aware of his situation with Gendo and the Dummy Plug. The magic of characters such as these is that misunderstandings can happen, leading to conflicts between characters. Because Shinji didn't do anything to save her, she'll feel she has all the right to blame him for what happened.

Also, Asuka's a teenage girl; do you expect rationality?

I guess I'm not clear on why Bardiel would have any influence on her at all. I've only seen 2.22 a couple of times, but I don't remember anything indicating the pilot had actually been corrupted. What did I miss?

Ritsuko or Maya, whichever one, says something about making sure there wasn't any mental contamination made by the Angel, or something like that. I'm not quite sure what the exact line is.

[Seele00TextOnly]

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[Lucretius]

And about Shinji getting super powers to save Rei that he never demonstrated to save her? Well, I suppose if she even considered the possibility, she would write it off as "well of course, he loves her and I'm just... me...".

That sounds far too understanding for any version of Asuka. Or any person in her place, really. She honestly would have plenty of reason to be outraged, especially if she thought that.

[Sachi]

That sounds far too understanding for any version of Asuka. Or any person in her place, really. She honestly would have plenty of reason to be outraged, especially if she thought that.

This. What movie did you watch, Seele? Yeah, Asuka would feel a hint of worthlessness on the inside, but on the outside she'd be in uber-bitch mode. It would also leave her character in a completely static state if she acted the way you described.

[Seele00TextOnly]

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[Sachi]

I guess we're waiting for 3.0 then.

[Synapsid]

I wouldn't call the harvesting souls a maternal sacrifice so much as Shinji attaining the power of a god and using it for his own selfish ends...which is just the same as what the climax of 2.0 shows.

But Rei played a key role in both of the events and was the active in EoE, Shinji just gave the consent, he was neither a god nor in control then. 2.0 was at least on a superficial level, reversed.

By the way you came up with a much nicer explanation for the R/S role/plot device than I would have used.

Incidentally, what do you think of the idea of Kaworu as a mother figure?

Well, he was a mother in a past life, and goes through the trouble to mention it and yes, I think you could see some of his actions towards Shinji as being maternal. Although he simultaneously serves as a masculine presence around Shinji, in Anno’s words an “Idealized masculine counterpart to Shinji”. That seems somewhat contradictory and ambiguous, but when you look at his character, or any of the protagonists and their roles, contradictory and ambiguous define them. Kaworu’s less than seamless angel/human dualism right back to the “boy with cat” idea fits this too; I wonder if Asuka won’t be playing that part in some form now... In a much diffrent way that is.

contamination made by the Angel, or something like that. I'm not quite sure what the exact line is.

That, and the fact that she’s in a containment chamber rather than an ICU, which kind of indicates that it isn’t physical injuries they’re worried with. I’d say that it’s pretty significant that she’s surrounded by miniature suppressor obelisks, which have only shown up around quarantined Shogoki in the trailer, and angel samples, oh and her room and wire arrangement looks quite a bit like Tuniel’s. Add that to the concepts detailing Bardiel combining with her(face) and yes, I’d think that it’s reasonable to assume that Asuka was contaminated.
Given the apparent lack of injuries shown in containment and preview it’s probably not hard to imagine that what is under the patch ties into the idea of Bardiel bonding to her face.

[Nonoriri]

I guess we're waiting for 3.0 then.

The Rebuild subforum in a nutshell.

Also the "contamination" in the TV series was also mental but without physical danger, in Rebuild they stress mental contamination with the same dialogue (kinda) but she was obviously in physical danger.

[Chrad]

...ridicule him for being "a coward..."well of course, he loves her and I'm just... me..."...ever conflicted true nature...How would she really feel though? Awful, horrible, wrong, and wronged...her anger, pain, and rage will probably be unleashed upon herself...substantial period of hiding behind her tough, no nonsense facade.

And thus, the transformation of Shikinami into Soryu is complete.

But Rei played a key role in both of the events and was the active in EoE, Shinji just gave the consent, he was neither a god nor in control then. 2.0 was at least on a superficial level, reversed.

I wasn't saying that he was a god, just that he had god like powers at his disposal, with Rei/Lilith doing his bidding. But anyway, I'd argue it's Shinji as an active force being emphasized in that sequence, versus Rei making a maternal sacrifice at the end of the film.

Kaworu’s less than seamless angel/human dualism right back to the “boy with cat” idea fits this too; I wonder if Asuka won’t be playing that part in some form now... In a much diffrent way that is.

I hope not. I like Asuka being the grounded 'human' character, who deals with normal problems in recognizably human (albeit screwed up) ways. We'd have way too much angel/human dualism going on among Shinji's associates if Anno takes Asuka down this path. Then again, given the glowing eyes we've been seeing and the four 'Adams', maybe that's the whole point.

[Bagheera]

That sounds far too understanding for any version of Asuka. Or any person in her place, really. She honestly would have plenty of reason to be outraged, especially if she thought that.

Don't forget Shikinami already stood aside for Rei, to the point of replacing her as test pilot so that she could have her party with Shinji. That's pretty damn understanding.

Do we have any reason to believe this version of Asuka actually hates herself? AFAICT she's just competitive and a little lonely. I haven't seen evidence for anything at all beyond that.

[Sachi]

Don't forget Shikinami already stood aside for Rei, to the point of replacing her as test pilot so that she could have her party with Shinji. That's pretty damn understanding.

It seemed more to me that once Asuka realized Rei was putting on that party that Asuka didn't want any part of it, so she decided to pilot instead. Also so that Rei wouldn't have the glory if she decided to pilot. Wondergirl holding a party for her man AND testing the new Eva? Oh, hell no!

I have a feeling that Asuka really had to think about her identity once she realized that Rei would be winning Shinji over with the party, and by doing so she decided that she lives her life to pilot the Eva, not pander to irrational feelings for another human being. This reevaluation of herself lead to that conversation she had with Misato just before getting in Unit-03. That realization seems like a natural conclusion for somebody who feels like they just lost to another person.

[Bagheera]

It seemed more to me that once Asuka realized Rei was putting on that party that Asuka didn't want any part of it, so she decided to pilot instead. Also so that Rei wouldn't have the glory if she decided to pilot. Wondergirl holding a party for her man AND testing the new Eva? Oh, hell no!

Well, note that she couldn't do both. That was rather the point.

I have a feeling that Asuka really had to think about her identity once she realized that Rei would be winning Shinji over with the party, and by doing so she decided that she lives her life to pilot the Eva, not pander to irrational feelings for another human being. This reevaluation of herself lead to that conversation she had with Misato just before getting in Unit-03. That realization seems like a natural conclusion for somebody who feels like they just lost to another person.

What I find most interesting about it all is that she gave up on him without much of a fight -- she could have fought Rei tooth and claw for Shinji's affections, but evidently didn't care to (it might also have struck her as being somewhat catty, given the way the timing of it all worked out). So, either she's very understanding, not particularly interested, focused on piloting, or some combination of the three.

None of which strikes me as a very good recipe for hatred. It just underscores the fact that this is a very different Asuka from the one we all know and love. It's no wonder she was renamed, because she really does appear to be a completely different character.

[Sachi]

What I find most interesting about it all is that she gave up on him without much of a fight -- she could have fought Rei tooth and claw for Shinji's affections, but evidently didn't care to (it might also have struck her as being somewhat catty, given the way the timing of it all worked out). So, either she's very understanding, not particularly interested, focused on piloting, or some combination of the three.

Or she's like any teenage girl with a crush and, despite acting like she doesn't care, she's truly hurt.

[Defectron]

What I find most interesting about it all is that she gave up on him without much of a fight -- she could have fought Rei tooth and claw for Shinji's affections, but evidently didn't care to (it might also have struck her as being somewhat catty, given the way the timing of it all worked out). So, either she's very understanding, not particularly interested, focused on piloting, or some combination of the three.

Another thing is that Asukas pride makes it difficult to aknowledge that she's interested in him in the first place, aknowledging being interested in someone who seems to be more inclined to go with her competition is probably even more so for her.

[Bagheera]

Another thing is that Asukas pride makes it difficult to aknowledge that she's interested in him in the first place, aknowledging being interested in someone who seems to be more inclined to go with her competition is probably even more so for her.

I dunno. It seemed like she had that all pretty much sorted out, at least to me. It was the bit with that bandages that really sealed it, coupled with her conversation with Rei. I can't decide which is more mind-boggling -- the fact that she's keen on dolls or the fact that she's apparently shown compassion for Rei.

But then, new character &c, so not so mind-boggling. Just...really unexpected.

[SaltyJoe]

I would like to introduce the idea of Asuka not caring at all what Shinji did or didn't do during the Eva-03 incident because the trials and concerns that arise in her own life following said event vastly overshadow any bitterness that she might feel toward Shinji.

I know this goes against the notion of a Shinji centric narrative where any character's relevance is dictated by his/her relationship to/with Shinji, but i can dream.

Also, i think the main reason Asuka quit Shinji is that she didn't feel "poka poka" around him, like Rei did. She wanted to, but look at the bed scene: when Shinji says "Oh, i hope my dady will tell me i'm a good boy", she looks as disappointed as if someone shot her dog. Shinji is just isn't "the one" for her.