AX MMV

[Hexon.Arq]

Yes, Anime Expo.

Who's going?

[The Eva Monkey]

Don't go to Anime Expo. Go to Otakon.

[Reichu]

If you went to an anime con, Hex, would you hide your body and face with a giant costume and disguise your voice with a synthesizer?

[The Eva Monkey]

He would only be present as a big black monolith that says "Hexon: Sound Only".

[Hexon.Arq]

I haven't got the funds to go to Baltimore. Maybe when I become competent in some way, I shall attend, but right now it's close to an impossibility. AX, meanwhile, is just a leap, crush, and a spray away.

So, no one, I take it?

[Cogboy]

He would only be present as a big black monolith that says "Hexon: Sound Only".

He?

[Hexon.Arq]

Well, since it seems I'll be the only person from this community who will be attending...

The day I selected (Saturday) also happened to be the day when various pawns will be allowed to bask in the glory of Matt Greenfield. (I farted.) Since I can't think of any way that I'd want to make use of this, does anyone... have any requests? Seriously, anything. You want me to give him your prayer request? Should I bring a pie to the con? What?

Monkey, you want me to ask him where the hell your book went?

[Soluzar]

Well, since it seems I'll be the only person from this community who will be attending...

The day I selected (Saturday) also happened to be the day when various pawns will be allowed to bask in the glory of Matt Greenfield. (I farted.) Since I can't think of any way that I'd want to make use of this, does anyone... have any requests? Seriously, anything. You want me to give him your prayer request? Should I bring a pie to the con? What?

I would like for you to give him a whole DVD-R full of fansub versions of the original Japanese release of Evangelion, and a letter that states, "It was this good before you even got your hands on it, so stop pretending you had anything to do with this show, jerkwad!"

Failing that, I'd like you to ask him what he thinks about the sybolism in Evangelion, and then to sit there and laugh hysterically while he tells you. That's if, you know, everyone else isn't already laughing hysterically.

One other suggestion: Ask him if he was actually fucking Amanda Winn Lee? I can't imagine how else she got the job. She's gotta use her purty li'l mouth real well for someone to ignore incompetance on that sort of a scale.

[DatDude]

For the love of god why the fuck do you people hate ADV so fucking bad?

They didn't to that bad a job, infact for a company that didn't have direct acess or anno or gainax to ask WTF was going on in the mind fuck that is eva they did a good job.

If the original Japanese cast had to deal with what they did to get thing cleared up reather then taping Anno on the shoulder and asking him you have just as much wrong with the Japanese version.

You people seem to think that satan gave greenfield and win lee the job just to fuck with you personaly.

You like subtitles fine read them, as a matter of fact don't even by ADV just get a Japanese dvd with english subtitles (if such things exsist) and a dvd player that can handle that regon, and shut the fuck up.

[Soluzar]

For the love of god why the fuck do you people hate ADV so fucking bad?

It was supposed to be funny: Laugh. :-D

Besides, I don't hate ADV. Most of the anime they put out is good. Even the dubs are often OK. What I hate is H-A-C-K J-O-B-S. ADV's dub and translation of Evangelion is a hack job.

They didn't to that bad a job, infact for a company that didn't have direct acess or anno or gainax to ask WTF was going on in the mind fuck that is eva they did a good job.

No, actually, I checked, just to be sure. They did a shitty job. It's not because they didn't know what's going on, it's because at some points in the series, AWL just gives up trying, and just says her lines as though she just wanted to go home. Rei's part in the dub is bad acting. Plain and simple. It has nothing to do with Eva being a mind-fuck. It has nothing to do with lack of access to GAINAX and Anno. Spike Spencer couldn't act to save his life, either and Tiffany Grant is a good actress who was woefully miscast. That, and they replaced a slap with a gunshot.

If the original Japanese cast had to deal with what they did to get thing cleared up reather then taping Anno on the shoulder and asking him you have just as much wrong with the Japanese version.

You would, as well. If the Japanese cast was saddled with two actors who just aren't good enough for the job, or if they had about 3 other excellent actors who are horribly miscast. Instead, the Japanese cast was filled with the true greats of anime seiyuu and because of that, they did quite well.

You like subtitles fine read them, as a matter of fact don't even by ADV just get a Japanese dvd with english subtitles (if such things exsist) and a dvd player that can handle that regon, and shut the fuck up.

Nyo~! Sadly I don't really have that choice. The subtitles are almost as poorly translated as the dub, and the Japanese discs don't come with English anything. As for shutting up... :points to title:

Besides, my response was very much in the spirit of Hexon's question, so leave it out, ne?

[The Eva Monkey]

Monkey, you want me to ask him where the hell your book went?

It was sent via priority mail two days ago, it should be in my mail box tommorow.

[DatDude]

Nyo~! Sadly I don't really have that choice. The subtitles are almost as poorly translated as the dub, and the Japanese discs don't come with English anything. As for shutting up... :points to title:

Zat so I've always heard the subbies going on about ho much better and closer to the original the subtitle are? Me thinks you know not what you speak.

Seeing as you have no choice you should be glad you have any eva at all and stop kncoking ADV. They had to be doing somthing right or none of us engilish speakers would be eva fans right now would we?

[Hexon.Arq]

They had to be doing somthing right or none of us engilish speakers would be eva fans right now would we?

Not necessarily. "Life finds a way."

[DatDude]

They had to be doing somthing right or none of us engilish speakers would be eva fans right now would we?

Not necessarily. "Life finds a way."

Whatever.

[Soluzar]

Nyo~! Sadly I don't really have that choice. The subtitles are almost as poorly translated as the dub, and the Japanese discs don't come with English anything. As for shutting up... :points to title:

Zat so I've always heard the subbies going on about ho much better and closer to the original the subtitle are? Me thinks you know not what you speak.

It's never safe to assume that. If I don't know, I prefer not to speak. I know what I'm talking about. The subtitles are better, but not by much.

Seeing as you have no choice you should be glad you have any eva at all and stop kncoking ADV.

Oh, no. Don't you make that strawman out of MY words! :)

I have a choice, alright. I don't have a choice to not buy their stuff, but I have the choice to make a better subtitle file from a translation that I know is closer to the original, burn that to DVD-R, along with the original DVD footage, and watch that. I have choices, and I'm not knocking ADV in any case. I'm knocking one specific hack job they did, and I am not about to stop because it offends you. It's my damn hobby

They had to be doing somthing right or none of us engilish speakers would be eva fans right now would we?

Sure, you keep telling yourself that. I think that we all became fans in spite of their hack job, not because of it.

Whatever.

That's the kind of refutation that makes me rethink my beliefs.

[DatDude]

It's never safe to assume that. If I don't know, I prefer not to speak. I know what I'm talking about. The subtitles are better, but not by much.

One thing ten years on the internet has shown me it that people that know lesss speak more and louder.

I have a choice, alright. I don't have a choice to not buy their stuff, but I have the choice to make a better subtitle file from a translation that I know is closer to the original, burn that to DVD-R, along with the original DVD footage, and watch that. I have choices, and I'm not knocking ADV in any case. I'm knocking one specific hack job they did, and I am not about to stop because it offends you. It's my damn hobby

Strange after almost a year on this sight defending dub evey subbie I speak to defends the sutitle translation of the last release, even people that speak the language. What magic translation do you have? Please post a link monkey wants transcripts for the sight, and I'm dieing to see just how close to the norm you magic translation are?

Sure, you keep telling yourself that. I think that we all became fans in spite of their hack job, not because of it.

How would Anno come to you house and translate for you? :P

That's the kind of refutation that makes me rethink my beliefs.

If I wanted to change your mind I'd come to your house with a hack saw, and a live chimp.

May I point out that 90% of the people on these boards watch ADV release of EVA if you say the information on their is crap then you say none of us that watch those DVDs know shit about eva.

Hit me with a link let me see your magic wonderious translations! i'm dieing to see how close the are to the Adv release and have say man chong or one of our other residents bye linguists tells us how much they suck.

[Soluzar]

It's never safe to assume that. If I don't know, I prefer not to speak. I know what I'm talking about. The subtitles are better, but not by much.

One thing ten years on the internet has shown me it that people that know less speak more and louder.

True, in general. You have a reason to believe this of me? Then don't.

I have a choice, alright. I don't have a choice to not buy their stuff, but I have the choice to make a better subtitle file from a translation that I know is closer to the original, burn that to DVD-R, along with the original DVD footage, and watch that. I have choices, and I'm not knocking ADV in any case. I'm knocking one specific hack job they did, and I am not about to stop because it offends you. It's my damn hobby

Strange after almost a year on this sight defending dub evey subbie I speak to defends the sutitle translation of the last release, even people that speak the language. What magic translation do you have? Please post a link monkey wants transcripts for the sight, and I'm dieing to see just how close to the norm you magic translation are?

Well, it's not a full set, but the translation used for the commentary exposes some errors in the current subs, and the LTP helps with some other parts. The LTP has its own flaws, though. I think you are missinterpreting why people defend the Platinum subs. It's because they are better than the originals, which does not mean that they do not contain any flaws.

I guess I exaggerated a little about how bad the subs really are, but there really are some errors in them, ask Reichu, if you don't believe me.

Sure, you keep telling yourself that. I think that we all became fans in spite of their hack job, not because of it.

How, would Anno come to you house and translate for you? :P

Nope. I can understand a few words here and there myself, and Reichu has translated a few parts for the AnimeNation forums, and piece-by-piece you build up an understanding. You only need to listen to know that what is being said is not the same as what is being printed on the subs.

I enjoyed the show despite the translation, but I didn't really start to understand the show until I read some of Reichu's translations of key scenes, and started to pick up the odd word or five of Japanese.

May I point out that 90% of the people on these boards watch ADV release of EVA if you say the information on their is crap then you say none of us that watch those DVDs know shit about eva.

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that they are adequate, but with a few major errors. It's not even as though I'd be the only one to say that.

If you've only ever watched the dub, then you really don't know everything that is important about some of the more complex scenes, because the dub script is so far different from the real script that it is unreal. The sub script, on the other hand, has a few errors, enough to piss me off, but not enough to really ruin the anime.

Hit me with a link let me see your magic wonderious translations!

None of the translations are either magic, or wonderful. They are simply more literal, which allows for a better understanding, in certain cases.

I'm dying to see how close the are to the ADV release and have say, man chong, or one of our other resident bi-linguists tells us how much they suck.

Does he speak Japanese as a native? Otherwise, why would you trust his opinion? The Literal Translation Projects scripts are the only ones you don't know of already. They kind of do suck, because they are written as a completely literal translation, but they certainly offer an alternate point of view, if you take them into account side-by-side with both what you hear on the dialog track, the scripts in Japanese as released by ADV, and the Commentary project.

The LTP's page ishere, but there's no point in telling me that it sucks. None at all, because I know it has flaws too. That doesn't make the ADV translation any better. What I don't get is why you're taking such offense to this. I'm certainly not going to back down.

I don't have a complete set of perfect translations, instead what I have is a handfull of sometimes-useful resources that I can look at when a scene seems confusing. With regards to the comment about making my own fansubs from the DVDs, I haven't completed doing that, and I don't know if I ever will, but it's certainly possible. I hasten to add that if I did do that, I would be doing it entirely for my own enjoyment, and not distributing the files. The commentary project is by far the best translation, simply because Reichu and Quiddity have access to all of the resources from the previous translations, including the original scripts.

I really don't care what you think, this is one of those things where when someone disagrees with me, I just get this warm, glowy feeling, because I know the truth, and they don't. I'm cool with that. I'd rather you join me here in the warmth, my friend, but you are under no obligation to do so.

Eva's subs (and even the dub, to a lesser extent) are good enough for people to enjoy for casual viewing, but for analysis, or even just a deeper appreciation, you have to go right to the source. I'm not trying to annoy you, but that's just the way it is.

[DatDude]

Nope. I can understand a few words here and there myself, and Reichu has translated a few parts for the AnimeNation forums, and piece-by-piece you build up an understanding. You only need to listen to know that what is being said is not the same as what is being printed on the subs.

I enjoyed the show despite the translation, but I didn't really start to understand the show until I read some of Reichu's translations of key scenes, and started to pick up the odd word or five of Japanese.

And unless I'm mistaken Reichu's first exsposure to EVA was an ADV DvD am I correct? No ADV DVD you might not have a reichu to translate it for you. . .

Does he speak Japanese as a native? Otherwise, why would you trust his opinion? The Literal Translation Projects scripts are the only ones you don't know of already. They kind of do suck, because they are written as a completely literal translation, but they certainly offer an alternate point of view, if you take them into account side-by-side with both what you hear on the dialog track, the scripts in Japanese as released by ADV, and the Commentary project.

HE's lived in Japan and was tramtised by EVA's original airing. I trust the mans skills to be as strong as his obsession for Rei.

None of the translations are either magic, or wonderful. They are simply more literal, which allows for a better understanding, in certain cases.

[sarcasm]

Sorry I got confused by how much you were holding them up as better then what the rest of us use, it did't realise it was subjective sorry.

[/sarcasm]

The LTP's page ishere, but there's no point in telling me that it sucks. None at all, because I know it has flaws too. That doesn't make the ADV translation any better.

[sarcasm]

Sorry I got confused by how much you were holding them up as better then what the rest of us use, it did't realise it was subjective sorry.

[/sarcasm]

]What I don't get is why you're taking such offense to this. I'm certainly not going to back down.

I get sick and tired of people that crack on ADV as you can tell from the Manga release of the movies it could have been much worse. The job they did was not half bad, if it was as bad as you say it is then gainax would have gone to some one else with the DC's but after seeing how bad Manga movie release was they went bad to ADV, not a thrid party. If what they put out was the crap you make it out to be they would have found some one else no?

BAck down what it this I know not the meaning fo these words?

Eva's subs (and even the dub, to a lesser extent) are good enough for people to enjoy for casual viewing, but for analysis, or even just a deeper appreciation, you have to go right to the source. I'm not trying to annoy you, but that's just the way it is.

This is a matter of opnion sir not fact realize this. If the issuse were as bad as you say half the people on the board would not know what the fuck they were talking about when it comes to eva, myself included. HAving done as well as I have talking about things here I think I'm far from cluless about this show, even if their plent on the board that know more then me without using the LTP or speaking Japanese.

I realise what I'm saying here do you?

[Soluzar]

Nope. I can understand a few words here and there myself, and Reichu has translated a few parts for the AnimeNation forums, and piece-by-piece you build up an understanding. You only need to listen to know that what is being said is not the same as what is being printed on the subs.

I enjoyed the show despite the translation, but I didn't really start to understand the show until I read some of Reichu's translations of key scenes, and started to pick up the odd word or five of Japanese.

And unless I'm mistaken Reichu's first exsposure to EVA was an ADV DvD am I correct? No ADV DVD you might not have a reichu to translate it for you. . .

That's flimsy logic. Almost everyone's first exposure to anime was on TV - anime gets way better than watching the kind of cut-to-shreds stuff that gets broadcast

What I don't get is why you're taking such offense to this. I'm certainly not going to back down.

I get sick and tired of people that crack on ADV as you can tell from the Manga release of the movies it could have been much worse. The job they did was not half bad, if it was as bad as you say it is then gainax would have gone to some one else with the DC's but after seeing how bad Manga movie release was they went bad to ADV, not a thrid party. If what they put out was the crap you make it out to be they would have found some one else no?

True. However, I wish it could have been about five years later, when ADV had become one of the best anime distributors in the business. I have nothing against ADV, just this one job that they did. The manga release was actually (as far as I know) translated by most of the same people. There's no important difference in my mind between the Manga treatment of the movies, and the ADV treatment of the series. I will give credit where it's due and state that ADV do do much better work now, and I state quite categorically that if they were doing NGE now, then they would do a far better job of the dub. Immeasurably better, in fact.

Back down what it this I know not the meaning fo these words?

I'm sure you are being figurative, and that you really know what "back down" means! :-D

Eva's subs (and even the dub, to a lesser extent) are good enough for people to enjoy for casual viewing, but for analysis, or even just a deeper appreciation, you have to go right to the source. I'm not trying to annoy you, but that's just the way it is.

This is a matter of opnion sir not fact realize this. If the issuse were as bad as you say half the people on the board would not know what the fuck they were talking about when it comes to eva, myself included. HAving done as well as I have talking about things here I think I'm far from cluless about this show, even if their plent on the board that know more then me without using the LTP or speaking Japanese.

I don't acknowledge your point. There are several key scenes which simply don't work as well in the current subtitle translation as they might have done with a marginally better choice of words. I admit that the new subs for platinum have fixed a substantial number of the original problems, but you can't know how much the meaning of some lines has been altered unless you look at alternat. It is neccessary for the deeper level of understanding in a few key scenes.

I realise what I'm saying here do you?

Yes. That doesn't mean that I agree with you.
I'm going to do what I should have done when you first posted your objections to my humour, and refuse to go any further off-topic in this thread. If you wish to start a topic in which we can discuss (with examples) the problems created by the various translations, then I will be happy to pursue my research and join you. So long as you are prepared to allow me a certain amount of time between posts, to source references, and I will also refrain from offering any of my opinions, I will just present the text, which may speak for itself. I trust that Reichu or your bi-lingual friend will verify the translations that I refer to, in order to guarantee a fair and balanced debate.

[Hexon.Arq]

Being a thread that I started*, if I read anyone defending any secondary** dub in any language ever, the offending party will be put to death. The concept of dubbing is an offence to art in any form, and should never even factor into an argument regarding the fidelity of translation; it is a non-entity.

If we didn't have ADV, we'd have some other company. They might make just as many mistakes, so we'd be turning to things like the L.T.P. just the same. If we didn't have any other company, we'd have bootlegs, tediously (or haphazardly) subbed by someone in China with bad spelling, and would still, in the end, be driven to retranslate. Anyone who wanted anime would have sought it out; anyone who was ignorant of its presence resulting from the alternate set of circumstances would have been a different person, but just as well-off (with more money in their pocket). It makes no difference.

* I'm not a mod, so there's really nothing I can do to you, except insult you with pins that carry other pins in their pockets, and the other pins don't hurt until you've gone on living for a couple of days and then have excruciating pain while urinating.

** "secondary" used as a disclaimer, in that in the case of anime, the original performance is, in essence, a dub. It is, however, the original performance, and is therefore the only valid one with respect to artistic right. Had ADV made Evangelion, the English dub would have been the original, and even a superior Japanese secondary dub would be regarded as offensive.