Netflix English Dub Discussion

[robersora]

I'm working my way through the dubs piecemeal. Now that the "newness" has subsided, I have to say, the new English version, while not perfect, is overall ok.
Unfortunately I cannot say the same for the German version. . The voices are grating, but the worst part is, that it was clearly translated from the English version, resulting in lots of translations, that feel either weird or borderline nonsensical (me knowing what the English dub says makes me understand what is supposed to be said).
The subtitles are ok, at least

[kuribo-04]

but the worst part is, that it was clearly translated from the English version, resulting in lots of translations, that feel either weird or borderline nonsensical (me knowing what the English dub says makes me understand what is supposed to be said).

Why is this at all done in the industry?

[robersora]

^
I honestly don't know. I suspect it's because Khara has no German speaking translator, so they demanded for the translation to adhere to the English on as close as possible?
(If that's the case, that would honestly be amazing. Drunk Con attendees' reactions would then have sealed Eva's international fate forever.)
Or maybe to cut costs? A Japanese-German translator is harder to come by than one who does translations from English, I figure.
This has been a recurring problem, they did it to Murakami novels as well.

[FelipeFritschF]

Indeed, usually non-English localizations of anime are just translated from existing Japanese to English ones. For instance here in Brazil Evangelion 3.0 never got a DVD release or any official translation because the local distributor gave up on waiting for Funi to re-dub it.

[C. Smith]

I've been hearing that Asuka has some kind of accent (pretty likely Irish considering her VA). This true?

[Ark]

Someone I work with has just started watching it with the new dub. He already watched it twice in quick succession with the ADV dub earlier in the year. He told me that he feels he has a much clearer understanding of the characters because of the Netflix dub, particularly Asuka and Shinji. He mentioned that he never understood that there was supposed to be sexual tension between those two characters (before the Netflix dub), and he specifically pointed to the scene by the swimming pool in Magma Diver. Looking over all three version myself, I do have to say that this scene plays as being much comedic in the ADV dub. In the Japanese and the Netflix version it definitely comes across as more sexually charged.

[AnimeAjay]

The new dub hews closer to the original by a landslide. There is plenty of room for improvement, for sure, but in terms of "which one is more like Anno's Eva?" it isn't even a contest.

Agreed, and that's why I'm a little shocked some people are quite so aggressive towards the new dub. It's significantly more faithful, better acted, and fittingly cast. I'd always cringe if I heard people watched the old dub over the sub, but if someone were to pick the new one this time around, I'd be largely fine, Netflix audio licensing issues aside. You're 100% watching Evangelion with the new dub... not sure I'd quite say the same about the old one.

I suppose some of it may stem from familiarity and nostalgia that it's a little hard to push that away and look at things in more of a level-headed fashion. I witnessed it in the Dragon Ball fandom when it received a new dub with the release of Kai. In spite of having significantly better performances and casting in many cases, folks threw it under the bus for being different. It's been nearly 10 years. but it's finally gotten to the point where the majority of the fandom recommends Kai for its superior voice acting.

I wonder if we'll see the same thing happen in the Evangelion fandom as the years go by. New fans popping up, older fans gaining a new appreciation, and whatnot. Time will tell, I suppose. I hope it happens.

[FelipeFritschF]

I have the same impression. I think people are just emotionally attached.

[Kendrix]

Why is this at all done in the industry?

IDK but they do it all the time it would be less grating if many american dubs werent so bad, I've read that its for licensing reasons or maybe it's cheaper to jhire an English translator than a Japanese one.

I've come to call this "Sputnik translations" You know sputnik the satelite? Had nothing on board but a transmitter because its only purpose was to be in space first.
Loveless eral pieacemeal dubs who are only intended to be released fast.

They used to makesome really loving translations in the early 2000s then there was a mass shooting and hysteria about tv shows and video games
They passed some laws regarding firearms and counselling in schools (you know things that actually have to do with that) and no such thing ever happened again, but old ppl gotta be paranoid at something
afterwards they became legendarily bad like 4 kids got nothing on them, Naruto was famoulsy butchered

the bad dubs drove everyone to illegal subs online, the dub ppl figured that no one would watch dubs if they weren't out soon after the source material leading to rushed google translate dubs
Doesn't help that hardly anyone has any love for our language the more they can leave in English the better /facepalm

once in a while you DO find good dubs but mostly in stuff that gets released to DVD/blu ray rather than for TV (usually because it's geared at an adult or +16 audience) so ppl take their time IDK what will become of that now that everything is going to livestreaming with has TV-like practices

I have yet to watch it but a lot of Netflix dubs tend to be "Sputnik Translations"

This is particularly grating with Children's shows because gradeschoolers who don't speak English can't just watch the originals. The dubs of Voltron and Steven Universe are atrocious! My poor baby sister. The brazillian one is so nice!
I miss the pre-Erfurt-shooter RTLII dubs of yore - but before that? Doremi? Digimon? Dr. Slump? Those were done so nicely, almost disney levels of smooth and comprehensive, sailor moon wasnt enterely censorship free but otherwise fairly ok.

I'll probably still watch it just for the discussion potential but it just won't be the same without Erich Reuters as Gendo.



Then again I don't get why american ppl are so nostalgig about the funimation dub. It sucks! It's shrill af, no nuance to be found, half the actors hated their characters they honestly think it's better because Tifanny Grant peppered in random foreign words like a stereotypical TV foreigner? no one talks like that



I have to see it before I form an opinion but there's been a lot of rage about this "worthy of my grace" line - seems to me that it's simply a religious allusion ("the grace of god")
Kaworu talks like he swallowed a thesaurus. He just does.
I remember this essay pierce on an ancient German fansite that may no longer exist about how Kaworu says "koui" (sympathy, protection) instead of "koi" (strictly romantic love)
The canonicity of a romantic aspect is not in question, Sadamoto and Anno have both confirmed it - but like, NUANCE. There is a whole lot going on in that scene; The relationship is used for symbolism - you know like a heterosexual one might, and the main point is that someone finally gives Shinji sympathy.

I knew ppl would go full tumblr on it I told myself in advance to disconnect and not care about it but here it is...

[FelipeFritschF]

The canonicity of a romantic aspect is not in question, Sadamoto and Anno have both confirmed it - but like, NUANCE. There is a whole lot going on in that scene; The relationship is used for symbolism - you know like a heterosexual one might, and the main point is that someone finally gives Shinji sympathy.

They have both denied parts of it or not commented on it, actually... I mentioned this in the article about the lines (below), Anno has repeatedly denied giving direct explanations to anything and the only thing he has commented on it was saying Shinji had no "carnal feelings" for Kaworu in the June magazine. Seems weird for Anno to say one thing so much and then contradict himself, particularly because people are attributing random snippets of Japanese text to him (this includes even video game guides for specific Kaworu routes when those games have even a route for Shinji to end up with Hikari or Misato), which are in turn also contradicted by other more legitimate supplemental material (that is actually supposed to be talking about the series, for instance), or even themselves (that same Kaworu book from below also lists Kaworu as specifically wanting Shinji as a friend and not a lover, for that matter).

https://wiki.evageeks.org/Theory_and_An ... l_material

Everything in Eva was always supposed to be open-ended and this is no exception.

Now, this is my interpretation, but it seems very negative of Anno to make this relationship strictly romantic when it represents all the fantasy and escapism with a seemingly perfect character that apparently exists for Shinji's sake alone - the same fantasy he has demanded from Asuka, Rei and Misato, but has only generated more suffering for Shinji and is then never mentioned again except for Shinji feeling guilty over killing a human being for 30 seconds, and then he proceeds to recover by interacting with the woman of his life, as refusing to treat them as human beings is one of the major aspects of him being childish and insecure. In fact, Shinji thinking Kaworu was the first person who ever cared about him is nonsense, he is quite simply wrong, even if portions of the fandom reproduce those beliefs. Shinji has internalized his belief that nobody cared about him or is nice to him, he was not *looking* for romantic love (though if he interpreted it as such is another manner...), he was looking for any sort of attention and validation. Even after Kaworu, Shinji is again even more certain he is unwanted and unworthy, and this has the side effect of starting Third Impact, much to Seele's pleasure. Remember, in the Hell Train, Shinji asks Misato, Rei and Asuka to be nice to him, and they respond that they are, Shinji just accuses them of being liars because he is too afraid to consider their needs and navigate through the ambiguity and uncertainty of actual human interactions.

And Sadamoto has denied it being romantic in the interview from the Kaworu tribute book, though that only concerns the manga (which he says here and in at least 3 other interviews should never be used to understand the anime)

Speaking about Kaworu and Shinji’s relationship, I want to write it like what often happen between primary school boys and middle school boys. For the boys, instead a girl’s admire, they actually want to have admire from the other boys. That is why they imitate other boy’s behavior. The same thing happened to me. When I was a primary five student, a transfer student came to my class from Tokyo. Even though I thought “Tokyo is not great” in my mind, but I still felt that he looks handsome. He liked to say “だからさー”, though I said “it make me sick”, but secretly I thought it was very cool.(laugh) It is this kind of feeling. It is not romance……It is a delicate feeling in a delicate age.

[Tumbling Down]

I'm biased because of my attachment to the old dub, so take what I say with a grain of salt: Spike's performance in EoE was phenomenal, whereas Casey's performance is just fine. It's not bad, or even mediocre. I have no problems with it (aside from the unconvincing screaming). It just didn't blow me away like Spike's.. except for in he hospital scene, which she hit out of the park. I'd say main issue is that she failed to sell Shinji's horror at seeing Giant Naked Rei as more significant than all the other horrors he's seen so far. Spike got that across.

In this dub, Misato's final conversation with Shinji came across as her trying to perform the role of a drill sergeant. In the old dub, she was exhibiting genuine anger, as one would at a person who is willing to let everyone around him die just so he can continue feeling sorry for himself. The difference is most obvious when you compare the readings of "you can die later." I wouldn't say I'm completely opposed to this interpretation, I just prefer the old one, where Misato has nothing on her mind except saving the world until she realizes that Shinji won't budge unless he's shown empathy. Here, it seems like she gets that immediately and is trying to steer him in the right direction. Or maybe I'm overthinking this.

On a minor note, I really, really dislike the soldier's new reading of "nothing personal, kid." Now, it sounds like he's getting joy out of the prospect of murdering a child. Before, it sounded like he was trying to tell Shinji he was just doing his job. Misato getting joy out of saying the same thing to the soldier should be a contrast, not just the same thing repeated back to him the same way.

Overall, the new dub is still better than the old one, but I still say the old one has its advantages, particularly towards the end.

[Stuart]

Has it really been five whole years? Hi everyone

Despite not having posted here for yonks, Eva has always been truly dear to me. It's truly dear to all its fans, which is why the job of translating or acting in a new dub is always going to be a perilous one.

I finished watching the entire series last night (skipped Death), and I have to say that in my view, the new dub is mostly fantastic. I squealed like a baby when I first heard Misato speak because I thought it was Alison Keith (only to quickly realise that it wasn't). I always thought Keith was the real star of the ADV dub. Overall, the ADV dub was good, but I feel the script was confusing in many places.

I've watched the series countless times both in Japanese with subs and in ADV-English, and for the first time I found myself thinking "hey, this actually DOES make sense! There are no plot holes after all! Wow, that part actually leads really well into the next part!" It's hard to be objective about it since I now understand what's going on after years of fandom, coupled with the fact I was 14 when I first watched it. But I do feel that new viewers will be able to follow along with the story much better.

The new script has the benefit of almost 25 years of analysis and commentary, whereas the ADV translators were working with source material with a notoriously dense plot. Further to that, the new script has the benefit of the direct involvement of Khara. The performances bring out the subtlety of the characters very well, especially Mongillo's Shinji, who delivers a performance closer to Megumi Ogata's softly-spoken Shinji.

My main complaint (other than "I like you" which I could write a whole post about) is that it did seem in places that certain lines were deliberately made different to ADV's just for the sake of being different. Keele's last words being the prime example. There were some great lines in the ADV dub which I feel should have been used - but perhaps there was a potential legal issue that Netflix needed to avoid?

[KRandMJ]

Question about the dub changes; who wanted it changed? was it from Anno or by the dubbing staff?

[robersora]

^
From what little information came out of the Netflix-blackbox, this is all happening on Khara's behalf.

[Reichu]

Question about the dub changes; who wanted it changed? was it from Anno or by the dubbing staff?

If you're talking about "script changes", "changes" is the wrong way to look at it, since the ADV dub is not the "original work" -- the Japanese version is -- and hence an all-new dub has not "changed" anything. It's simply a different adaptation. Khara's only responsibility is their own work, and the dubbing staff's only responsibility is to doing the job that's been asked of them by their client. Of course, sometimes fresh adaptations throw in winks to previous attempts, but I just don't think fan pandering (or "service", if you prefer) was especially high on the list of considerations here. Another possibly under-considered problem is that translations and dubs are copyrighted material. If all of the adaptations are under the same ownership, there's no issue, but when the rights are scattered around, it would just be a liability to engage in plagiarism simply because the fans want you to. If Netflix made it clear that they do own the rights to ADV's work, then that's a different story, of course.

[Princess Asuka]

So, I've seen the first 13 episodes so far. Why are there hs in Gendo and Toji's names?

[Reichu]

So, I've seen the first 13 episodes so far. Why are there hs in Gendo and Toji's names?

"-oh" is just a way to write long "o" sounds from Japanese into the Roman alphabet. Another way is to render them "-ou" and yet another is to ignore them completely. The last one is very common when the names are written out in romaji for a Japanese audience; presumably because they will already know, or can intuit, where those lengthened vowel sounds are anyway.

[pwhodges]

And yet another way is to write ō.

[FelipeFritschF]

So Ogata agrees with the "like" change as she feels it's closer to the original and how she interprets it. She even contrasts this with Sailor Moon which she thinks should be "love", because "nuance is difficult".

https://comicbook.com/anime/amp/2019/07 ... ene-anime/

[Princess Asuka]

So, what were the words that Kaji was gonna tell Misato if he hadn't been killed? Was it I love you or was it a marriage proposal?