An anti-Christianity interpretation of Eva

[Azathoth]

God doesn't punish the wicked, HE's the wicked, he want to punish entire towns for the "fault" of a single person.

No. In a god-centered worldview, it is the god that decides the morality and whether or not it applies to him. The opinions of humanity are utterly irrelevant.

In fact it's not Christianity the problem, the monotheistic religions that are based on the Bible (and that include the Bible 2.0 called Quran) are the problem; in the last centuries they have been at the center of the: the Crusades, internal religious war in Europe, persecution of the Jews (that ended up being paid with the same money they used to give to their enemies and now they're returning again the favour to the Palestinians), the forced conversion of hundred of thousands of South America, Africa and Asia natives, last but not least the new Holy War of Al Qaeda against their former American sponsors.

Blah blah blah, religion is bad, yes, yes. Unfortunately it's also endemic to mankind, good luck doing anything about that.

People made the religions, they weren't existing since mankind appeared. Religions (especially the monotheistic ones) are cause of division and they're excuses to wage war just like other excuses are the difference between racial groups and the economic needs of the National States.

They're excuses to wage wars that people wanted to happen anyway. Next up: humanity takes aspect of society originally intended to reinforce the whole and uses it in divisive fashion, updates at nine o'clock.

This thread is only going to devolve into off-topicness and the longer it goes the bitchiness is only going to increase, whichever side of the argument it's on. I'd respectfully suggest locking it now, especially since OP's question has been answered: no, there is no DEEP meaning to the religious iconography in Eva, at least nothing along the lines of "Christianity is the evils" which I'm fairly sure that Anno, being Japanese, couldn't give a single fuck about.

[Hyper Shinchan]

No. In a god-centered worldview, it is the god that decides the morality and whether or not it applies to him. The opinions of humanity are utterly irrelevant.

No, the morality of God in the Bible correspond to the morality of the Jews (and other population of those time) that wrote it; then the rest of the World evolved, God remained somewhere between a modern conception of morality (especially in the Vangels) and a quite outdated model.

Blah blah blah, religion is bad, yes, yes. Unfortunately it's also endemic to mankind, good luck doing anything about that.

I have to thank my parents that they didn't impose me a religion; if everyone is left truly free to make his own decision rather than being imprinted since a young boy with this thing called religion then we could do something about that. Religions were created because men feared the world but just like the individuals have to learn that the fables are just work of fantasy the same will have to happen for mankind in the regards of religions.
EDIT: actually there are countries like Japan with high number of atheist and non believers: link

They're excuses to wage wars that people wanted to happen anyway.

The less excuses are left the worst war will look like, without justifications they'll be just pointless bloodbaths and people could start wondering if they're really necessary.

This thread is only going to devolve into off-topicness and the longer it goes the bitchiness is only going to increase, whichever side of the argument it's on. I'd respectfully suggest locking it now, especially since OP's question has been answered: no, there is no DEEP meaning to the religious iconography in Eva, at least nothing along the lines of "Christianity is the evils" which I'm fairly sure that Anno, being Japanese, couldn't give a single fuck about.

You're probably right.

[Xard]

guhhh. can't you two take all the supbar rhetoric without any real content elsewhere, rent a room and make out or something? I'm not interested in reading your sevent grader rants about evulness of religion when they pose severe danger that may lead to locking of this thread: I want to see Jimbo's reaction to Anno sceencap before that happens...

[Ornette]

guhhh. can't you two take all the supbar rhetoric without any real content elsewhere, rent a room and make out or something? I'm not interested in reading your sevent grader rants about evulness of religion when they pose severe danger that may lead to locking of this thread: I want to see Jimbo's reaction to Anno sceencap before that happens...

This post isn't helping this thread any.

While it does seem this thread has meandered away from the OP, if there isn't anything else meaningful to add, then I think we're done.

[Hyper Shinchan]

guhhh. can't you two take all the supbar rhetoric without any real content elsewhere, rent a room and make out or something? I'm not interested in reading your sevent grader rants about evulness of religion when they pose severe danger that may lead to locking of this thread: I want to see Jimbo's reaction to Anno sceencap before that happens...

Since you're suggesting us to rent a room couldn't you do the same or more simply send him a PM? Actually it's hard to believe that there are guys out there that haven't seen that screenshoot yet.

[Sailor Star Dust]

Ahem:

While it does seem this thread has meandered away from the OP, if there isn't anything else meaningful to add, then I think we're done.

Just a reminder.

[Sanada Yukimura]

For me ,christran/judaic religion is the background of NGE,I don't think Anno was revolted against God .And I don't think he tried to mention God in his plot,God and His nature is put aside,what is really judged isthe human condition/reality that exists nowadays.

And after all,nobody really knows if the Angels are sent by God and anything else,it's just happening a prophecy.

And it really seems Anno was a Japanese nerd Hobbit some decades ago.In Lord of Rings there was no such glasses as he used '-'

[Ornette]

The "Religious meaning or not" stuff needs to go in its thread, here: http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?t=402

[Lord_Xenu]

On topic, I love the fact that Christianity and Judaism was even considered in the production of NGE, it initially surprised when I heard witnessed all these references to the Bible and Apocrypha. The series as I interpreted at the time, was like watching one dude unknowingly fighting against a legion of Antichrists and in the end killing the big kahuna herself while crucified and in the formation of the Sephirot. I nearly cried manly tears of hot sauce at the end.

That's what kept me glued to my computer screen all day, watching the entire series 3 years ago.

Also, despite knowing I should be on topic, I say religion and every other belief are equal among everyone involved. Saying any different would just make you ridiculously sanctimonious for your own beliefs.

[VoidEater]

the purpose of them is to skew the Christian understanding of symbols and images that are almost exclusively tied to it nowadays, leading to a less biased/partial perception of them

No. There's no cultural nor in-world context to base this on. Pure wanking.

The show is not about religion. It uses religious trappings to tell a story. There's a difference.

[flapjack]

although it isn't the goal of the show to speak on religious topics, it is undeniable that it does. Eva is anti-christian in the same way science is anti-christian. This is largely due to the fact that eva has science, because science rules! and religion is complicated!

[Azathoth]

although it isn't the goal of the show to speak on religious topics, it is undeniable that it does. Eva is anti-christian in the same way science is anti-christian. This is largely due to the fact that eva has science, because science rules! and religion is complicated!

I don't know if I'm being trolled or you are.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

although it isn't the goal of the show to speak on religious topics, it is undeniable that it does. Eva is anti-christian in the same way science is anti-christian. This is largely due to the fact that eva has science, because science rules! and religion is complicated!

Um, science's take on God is: "No comment". It can neither confirm nor deny the existence of a god, and is certainly doesn't use Christian symbols to be mistaken as an anti-Christian message either.

And the message of NGE isn't anti-Christian inasmuch as it just uses symbols from Christianity, Judaism, and even some Humanistic and Freudian themes to create entirely new messages. To try and plug the messages from these beliefs back into the series really just makes the show confuse itself. I mean, a Christian cross' symbolic message being inserted in the Freudian symbolic message of a vagina of a giant angel as a Judaical symbolic message of alter sacrifices to unite the world to in a sense of the symbolic message of Humanistic unity only to fall apart on top of itself in masochism and blood? I don't think that's "anti" anything. But all of these symbols are reconstructed within the story's context and used to create an entirely new message. A proactive message rather than a negative message. A message of having to overcome sexual insecurities, fear of danger, the unknown, and risk, in order to save one's self from becoming lost in humanity.

[Eva Yojimbo]

Um, science's take on God is: "No comment".

Unless they're trying to sell books, of course.

[flapjack]

My point was that science isn't anti-religion. But those that get offended by scientific explanations would probably find content in NGE offensive, because of morality, etc. Does that clear things up a bit?

[oOoOoOo]

Evangelion struck me as anti-Christian based on the version of Christianity I was raised under. Whether or not any of it is theologically sound... blah.

It was my personal understanding that death was an awesome gift, that martyrdom and the end of the world was a good thing. We'd all die and be together in a big blissful ball of bliss. So when I first watched Evangelion, I associated Instrumentality with God destroying the world and eating everyone's souls. That's a good thing! But Shinji rejects it and decides to live in the real world, which seems like clinging to life. I was raised to think that the material "real" world was evil, and the one after death was awesome.

[AuraTwilight]

The version of Christianity that raised you teaches that in Paradise everyone fuses into one being?

[pat457]

Evangelion struck me as anti-Christian based on the version of Christianity I was raised under. Whether or not any of it is theologically sound... blah.

It was my personal understanding that death was an awesome gift, that martyrdom and the end of the world was a good thing. We'd all die and be together in a big blissful ball of bliss. So when I first watched Evangelion, I associated Instrumentality with God destroying the world and eating everyone's souls. That's a good thing! But Shinji rejects it and decides to live in the real world, which seems like clinging to life. I was raised to think that the material "real" world was evil, and the one after death was awesome.

I guess I was raised in a different brand of Christianity than you (what, are there like, 38,000 now? :p). The material world is NOT evil by nature (something gnostic sects believed), after all, God created both the spiritual and the material. And since God is supposed to be Infinite Goodness, then it follows that what He creates must not be 'bad'. There's after all, that little phrase: "And Elohim saw all that he had made, and behold, very good!" Or so sayeth mine version.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

I guess I was raised in a different brand of Christianity than you (what, are there like, 38,000 now? :p)

Depends on how much funding a Christian television network needs. Very much like the early Catholic churches in Europe. *sees Catholics staring him down* Don't act like you don't know where the idea of purgatory came from!

I guess there could be some similarities between humanity turning to LCL goo and death or the rapture mentioned in the New Testament. But death and the rapture are really considered the first step in a multi-step process that ultimately ends with humans regaining the material world in it's original perfect state, rather than the screwed up material world we seem to be living in now. Whereas Evangelion's letting go of the material was supposed to be final. No one was supposed to return to that or any other world after they all turned to goo.

[ran1]

Something tells me this argument is going to eventually fester into a "there is no objective truth" Platonist circlejerk, or worse, have people argue about which form of Christianity is right before they even embark on whether or not it's even remotely applicable to Eva.

I'm tempted to just say "everyone listen to Allemann" since he's probably the only one with an actual degree in the field to back any of his claims up.

Also, props to hipster Anno -- I'm going for that look as well.