Pilot Consciousness during Berserkergang

[Sun Stealer]

In the battle against Sachiel, was Shinji conscious? How much is Yui and how much is Shinji? Does it take two to go into berserker mode?

[KnightmareX13]

Shinji was unconscious after Unit-01 shutdown, pile driver of light cracked skull, so Shinji was out of the picture. To me it seemed that Yui stepped in to protect Shinji there. And after the battle Shinji comes to in the entry plug and sees the reflection of Unit-01's face and faints. So ya Shinji got knockout against Sachiel. Based on the battles against Leliel and Zeruel, I would say that Yui can initiate it but Shinji can also influence her to do it, so it probably would work both ways.

[esselfortium]

I guess it's hard to really say for sure. The way it was handled in the narrative, with much of the battle not being shown until a quick-cut flashback later on, I always assumed that Shinji blacked out at some point during it. I guess, for him to be able to remember it at all, he'd have to have been conscious and just in a complete state of shock. I guess. Maybe.

[Gamer137]

Well berserking just requires a strong bond between pilot and the soul inside the core. You could argue the soul can only intervene if the pilot is facing an extreme circumstance, but it could also be the soul not wanting to get involved unless needed.

Shinji was unconscious in episodes two and sixteen, but nineteen is debatable because Shinji is absorbed next time we see him. However, Asuka are perfectly conscience in EoE when Unit-02 tries to grab the mass production units in the sky, so unconsciousness is not a requirement.

[Eva Yojimbo]

Synching seems to be a conjoining of the Eva's unconscious power with the pilot's conscious control of that power. In Berserk it seems to me that the pilots lose consciousness, but the link isn't destroyed; instead, the Eva simply takes over the conscious aspect too. We'll chalk it up to "lolmetascience" why they can't maintain that control.

[Sun Stealer]

Synching seems to be a conjoining of the Eva's unconscious power with the pilot's conscious control of that power. In Berserk it seems to me that the pilots lose consciousness, but the link isn't destroyed; instead, the Eva simply takes over the conscious aspect too. We'll chalk it up to "lolmetascience" why they can't maintain that control.

Perhaps berserkergang involves the opposite of regular synching. The eva takes conscious control to fulfill the pilot's subconscious desires.

[Eva Yojimbo]

^ That's an interesting (and possible) theory. Berserk is like an inverse of the regular Pilot-Consciousness/Eva-Unconsciousness relationship.

[Dr. Webster]

However, Asuka are perfectly conscience in EoE when Unit-02 tries to grab the mass production units in the sky, so unconsciousness is not a requirement.

I'm not so sure Unit 02 went into berzerker mode in EoE; after Asuka snapped out of her funk, it sure seemed like she was in control of the Eva the whole time. Her mom might have been helping a bit, but I think that whole fight sequence was just Asuka going apeshit.

[Azathoth]

I'm not so sure Unit 02 went into berzerker mode in EoE; after Asuka snapped out of her funk, it sure seemed like she was in control of the Eva the whole time. Her mom might have been helping a bit, but I think that whole fight sequence was just Asuka going apeshit.

Really? I think It's pretty obvious that something very, very unusual is going on there. Asuka isn't just angry there. She's not even just really, really angry. We're talking full-on psychotic bestial dismemberment with her bare hands while shrieking incoherently. I'd be the first to speak up for Asuka's redoubtable fighting spirit and bravery under fire, but honestly, the shit in EoE looks like something Guts himself would do. It's part of the reason why plenty of people have theorized that berserking in general is a kind of "reverse synchronization" (which is in fact very close to being canon fact; immediately before Shinji blacks out fighting Sachiel, Maya or Ritsuko or someone mentions that the synchograph is reversed).

I'd say that what's going on in the case of EoE Unit 02 is at least partially a case of Asuka being partly possessed by her (demonstrably psychotic) mother, although she's definitely not doing all the work - Asuka seems remarkably lucid, at least until she gets into battle against the MP Evas.

[Gamer137]

I'm not so sure Unit 02 went into berzerker mode in EoE; after Asuka snapped out of her funk, it sure seemed like she was in control of the Eva the whole time. Her mom might have been helping a bit, but I think that whole fight sequence was just Asuka going apeshit.

Well berserk does not require the soul to take full control. It simpky means the Eva is moving without power and ignoring the armor. Asuka is in control, or at least her mother is controlling for her, but the unit has zero power and still moves.

[Sailor Star Dust]

I'd say that what's going on in the case of EoE Unit 02 is at least partially a case of Asuka being partly possessed by her (demonstrably psychotic) mother, although she's definitely not doing all the work - Asuka seems remarkably lucid, at least until she gets into battle against the MP Evas.

Of course, keep in mind we also hear Eva-02 roar and grunt a few times during that battle, as well as the weird(?) berserking before Eva-02's speared.

And Kyoko saying "Please die with me!" twice in the Entry Plug amongst "You must live" before Asuka and Eva-02 awaken.

[esselfortium]

Of course, keep in mind we also hear Eva-02 roar and grunt a few times during that battle, as well as the weird(?) berserking before Eva-02's speared.

And Kyoko saying "Please die with me!" twice in the Entry Plug amongst "You must live" before Asuka and Eva-02 awaken.

Does that really make an important difference? Asuka is berserking, yes, but I'm pretty sure her climactic battle scene is supposed to be about Asuka herself rather than being about a middle-aged robot woman who lived most of her life offscreen. I think it dulls the meaning significantly and confuses the narrative if one operates under the theory that her mother was so heavily and directly involved in the fight.

[GasmaskAvenger]

I say it was both Asuka and Kyoko at work against the MP EVAs


who was doing most of the work is the real question of the matter, then

[esselfortium]

Based on visual cues compared to all the other berserk scenes in NGE, I don't think it requires much guesswork. When Eva-01 goes berserk, we know Shinji isn't the one in control: he's not even visible onscreen. The focus here is almost the complete opposite, both narratively and cinematically.

[GasmaskAvenger]

it could be Asuka's Za Beasto moment, with Kyoko acting as a drug of sorts to accelerate her will and power


that's how I look at it, per say

[Azathoth]

Does that really make an important difference? Asuka is berserking, yes, but I'm pretty sure her climactic battle scene is supposed to be about Asuka herself rather than being about a middle-aged robot woman who lived most of her life offscreen. I think it dulls the meaning significantly and confuses the narrative if one operates under the theory that her mother was so heavily and directly involved in the fight.

Pretty much, yeah. I may have mentioned it before, but I still think Asuka gets fuck-all character resolution in both EoTV and EoE. We only see that she apparently made a choice analogous to Shinji's and we get screwed out of seeing why, how, by what means.

Asuka's fight against the MP Evas is kind of a form of premature resolution or false enlightenment, if you like: it's a huge cathartic moment for her and the moment at which she finally proves that she wasn't just being a self-aggrandizing douchebag when she kept calling herself the best pilot. But ultimately her character arc is focused not on I WANT TO BE THE VERY BEST but rather on moving past her obsession with piloting and yet we get gypped out of the crucial moment where she actually does. What makes it worse is that she clearly makes a rather interesting choice in EoE - she chooses to come back to life, but still wearing the trappings of a pilot, even though she is surely aware that piloting is over and done with. What motivated her to do that? Who was her transition guide? What was her experience during Instrumentality, after her path diverges from Shinji's during Komm Suesser Tod?

Time and pacing constraints kill her character arc, unfortunately.

[Eva Yojimbo]

Time and pacing constraints kill her character arc, unfortunately.

I'm not sure I entirely agree, considering we get to examine her mind quite thoroughly in EoTV. I will grant she gets a bit shafted in EoE, though; but understandably, methinks.

[Azathoth]

I'm not sure I entirely agree, considering we get to examine her mind quite thoroughly in EoTV. I will grant she gets a bit shafted in EoE, though; but understandably, methinks.

Same could be said for Misato, Shinji, and Rei; but where Shinji, Rei, and even Misato do get at least a little closure (either by virtue of dead or by being the focus of the whole movie) Asuka's storyline just kind of runs off-screen and never comes back; and that's as true in EoTV, although at least there they mentioned right off that all the other characters were gonna get shafted.

[AyrYntake]

I always thought the pilot's consciousness during an Eva's berserker mode was kind of in a dream state in which the pilot was subjected to the Eva's actions, himself/herself going through the motions but not actually being in control. Would also explain why Shinji took so long to remember what went on, though this is pure speculation.

[ALKENO]

I was under the impression that the EVAs are always aware and conscious of their actions, it's just that they can't move due to the restraints (unless under extreme duress). The Japanese word used for "berserk" translates better to "out of our control". This means to me that the EVA stops following the pilots orders and moves of it's own whims. The only problem with my theory that I can see (and by all means correct me if there are more holes) is that, how can the EVA move of it's own volition only at certain times and other times not? I think it may be something like an adrenaline rush or something. I also thought that it helps if the pilot is unconscious, because then the EVA doesn't have to take orders from the pilot, but it isn't necessary.