An EoE Theory that's been confusing me [Concurrency]
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An EoE Theory that's been confusing me [Concurrency]
Ok so the other day someone asked me about The End of Evangelion in an AIM chat room.
So i just told him it was made because of the backlash of the last two episodes, Episode 25 and 26 of the TV series so you just forget 25 and 26 ever happened, But then my other friend said "Well no episode 25 and 26 of the TV series is happening in Shinji's mind in EoE" another one of my friends agreed with him and said this is a proven theory.
This totally confused me, i've never heard of this theory, i've heard of episode 25 and 26 taking place in his mind whilst he's sitting on that chair with his head down, but not taking place in End of Evangelion.
i'm sorry if this makes me sound like a total idiot i'm just a little confused.
So i just told him it was made because of the backlash of the last two episodes, Episode 25 and 26 of the TV series so you just forget 25 and 26 ever happened, But then my other friend said "Well no episode 25 and 26 of the TV series is happening in Shinji's mind in EoE" another one of my friends agreed with him and said this is a proven theory.
This totally confused me, i've never heard of this theory, i've heard of episode 25 and 26 taking place in his mind whilst he's sitting on that chair with his head down, but not taking place in End of Evangelion.
i'm sorry if this makes me sound like a total idiot i'm just a little confused.
Read this for starters :)
This actually seems to be the "orthodox" interprepation around here. There are some who maintain that two endings are separate (NemZ and Tines-san come to my mind first) though.
This actually seems to be the "orthodox" interprepation around here. There are some who maintain that two endings are separate (NemZ and Tines-san come to my mind first) though.
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Re: an End of Evangelion Theory what has been confusing me
Hatsumi92 wrote:So i just told him it was made because of the backlash of the last two episodes, Episode 25 and 26 of the TV series
Production of The End of Evangelion was publicly announced only two weeks after the final episode aired. It's preposterous to think that after episode 26 they had no plans whatsoever to redo the ending, and then people got pissed and they formalized in that short span of time plans for an expensive, lengthy undertaking.
The plans to redo the ending at a later date were undoubtedly decide upon internally before those two episodes had even aired.
Hatsumi92 wrote:"Well no episode 25 and 26 of the TV series is happening in Shinji's mind in EoE" another one of my friends agreed with him and said this is a proven theory.
Most people around here agree with that theory, some so staunchly in support of it that dissent is met with violent opposition. I disagree with the belief in the concurrence of the two endings, but that's my personal view. It's interesting fan theory, worth giving a consideration.
Okay, so reading the link you just gave me. That makes a bit more sense than someone just saying they run together.
i myself used to just believe they were seperate and the TV series ending never happened.
i know it was kind of stupid and lazy of me to just say it was because of the Death Threats and people wantng a better ending, but i didn't exactly know the full story of why it was made at the time.
i myself used to just believe they were seperate and the TV series ending never happened.
Production of The End of Evangelion was publicly announced only two weeks after the final episode aired. It's preposterous to think that after episode 26 they had no plans whatsoever to redo the ending, and then people got pissed and they formalized in that short span of time plans for an expensive, lengthy undertaking.
The plans to redo the ending at a later date were undoubtedly decide upon internally before those two episodes had even aired.
i know it was kind of stupid and lazy of me to just say it was because of the Death Threats and people wantng a better ending, but i didn't exactly know the full story of why it was made at the time.
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Xard wrote:Read this for starters :)
This actually seems to be the "orthodox" interprepation around here. There are some who maintain that two endings are separate (NemZ and Tines-san come to my mind first) though.
This on all counts. I personally take the concurrency to the extreme, but that's another thing.
Also, people were pissed off about how Rebirth ended (where the death-threats are from), not EoTV or EoE!
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I Honestly like Death and Rebirth. Hell I even enjoyed the last two episodes, but i can see what viewers would get mad about.
And to be honest this is the only subject i'm confused about in Eva, i can understand everything else just not this so much, but i guess thats the same with quite a few people here.
And to be honest this is the only subject i'm confused about in Eva, i can understand everything else just not this so much, but i guess thats the same with quite a few people here.
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Found it!
http://wiki.evageeks.org/Theory_and_Analysis:List_of_Common_Misconceptions#.22Anno.27s_Revenge.22
Hope this helps.
http://wiki.evageeks.org/Theory_and_Analysis:List_of_Common_Misconceptions#.22Anno.27s_Revenge.22
Finally, some argue that the smoking gun for Anno's revenge is the sequence of quickly flashing (about one per frame) death threats/hate mail which can be seen at the end of the live action sequence in the second half of the movie. However this rumor was started, it was probably propagated by the Commentary track on the Manga Entertainment release of End of Evangelion, where Amanda Winn Lee gives a mention of hate mail during this sequence[Source needed]. Since these have been translated to English, the majority of the letters and emails are that of personal attachment to the show, praise, or encouragement/anticipation for the End of Evangelion movie. Only one of the emails can be considered 'hate mail', and it was criticizing Death and Rebirth (not the end of the TV series at all), and the only 2 possible instances that could be considered a 'death threat' was graffiti on the wall outside of Gainax's studio (which was hypothesized to be from religious fanatics) and an email that said "Anno, I'll kill you!!!", which was a close-up of only that message on a computer monitor and lacked any context whatsoever. This puts the smoking gun argument on very shaky ground, as the sequence clearly isn't used as a "This is why I'm taking revenge on you people" message, or anything along those lines.
Hope this helps.
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We can see the real world leaking into episode 25 and match that up to EoE
The real difference comes after Shinji finally makes a decision -- the Ascended TV finale or the damnation that closes EoE.
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The real difference comes after Shinji finally makes a decision -- the Ascended TV finale or the damnation that closes EoE.
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I don't have any problem saying that 25 and 25' are concurrent... EoTV shows the internal dillemas while EoE shows the physical jeapordy, and both show a little of the other.
Where that breaks down for me is 26/26'. EoTV has an entirely different spin on things... A/S angle is almost completely absent, far more people are willing and able to talk to Shinji (including some that don't appear at all in EoE's instrumentality and some who don't even appear in EoE at all), the alternate world has an entirely different feel/purpose, and the endings... I can't begin to guess how anyone can think they have any commonality there:
EoE: I want to go back to how things were, even if it hurts again.
EoTV: I can find happiness in an entirely new way of life, too.
Where that breaks down for me is 26/26'. EoTV has an entirely different spin on things... A/S angle is almost completely absent, far more people are willing and able to talk to Shinji (including some that don't appear at all in EoE's instrumentality and some who don't even appear in EoE at all), the alternate world has an entirely different feel/purpose, and the endings... I can't begin to guess how anyone can think they have any commonality there:
EoE: I want to go back to how things were, even if it hurts again.
EoTV: I can find happiness in an entirely new way of life, too.
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EoTV is not about accepting Instrumentality -- it is about breaking the shell of the world (for the revolution of the world); and then joining everyone else in the newly Ascended human noosphere that has transcended the mere groupthink of Instrumentality.esselfortium wrote:But accepting instrumentality isn't "an entirely new way of life".
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Mr. Tines wrote:EoTV is not about accepting Instrumentality -- it is about breaking the shell of the world (for the revolution of the world); and then joining everyone else in the newly Ascended human noosphere that has transcended the mere groupthink of Instrumentality.esselfortium wrote:But accepting instrumentality isn't "an entirely new way of life".
I wasn't aware that was even an *option* in instrumentality! And to think, I could have ascended to the heaven of eternal clapping on a big blue ball...
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All it semed to take was a little dash of self-actualizationesselfortium wrote:I wasn't aware that was even an *option* in instrumentality!
Yes. I am nothing but I.
I am I. I wish to be I.
I want to stay here!
and the shell breaks, and newborn is hatched
esselfortium wrote:And to think, I could have ascended to the heaven of eternal clapping on a big blue ball...
into some consensus scene where the laggard newcomer is greeted, before getting too deeply involved in post-human existence to be comprehensible to an unascended audience.
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Problem is what Tines interprets with EoTV or EoE really makes no sense given what the dialogue and images actually show.
Best example in EoTV is how the auditorium breaking apart/revealing everybody parallels EoE with the Black Moon being destroyed and everybody's souls being freed from Instrumentality.
Best example in EoTV is how the auditorium breaking apart/revealing everybody parallels EoE with the Black Moon being destroyed and everybody's souls being freed from Instrumentality.
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What we have here is a failure to communicate...esselfortium wrote:Rather than dealing with your problems, let's all turn into mutual nothingness? Seriously?
At the end of ep 26, pretty much everyone whose names we know have avoided/emerged from the pit-trap of mutual nothingness -- into a finer place than this physical world. It says YES!! to the Techno-Rapture, and leaves us on the threshold we can no longer follow. In a world full of thanatist sour-grapes tales, EoTVs unflinching embrace of the concept of post-mortal pure mentality as the outcome of Gendo's master plan (that had been slid past SEELE's plotting) came as something refreshing and honest.
EOE, on the other hand... As I said elsewhere, while it looked like all the rest of humanity joined the Rapture, the two pilots ended up with their own special damnation.
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Indeed, what is being missed here is that EoTV insrumentality /= EoE instrumentality.
In EoTV the walls come down but nobody squishes everyone into a single mess of pointlessness, hence there is no 'suicide' in accepting it. Instead people are still individuals while having access to others minds. Reality has become consensual (or possibly always was and nobody noticed until now), with individuals free to associate or dissociate with others as they please, warping their private worlds without limit and shared spaces only bound by the wills of others.
In a nutshell:
EoE = Yui wins (though Seele thinks they do, at least at first)
EoTV = Gendo wins
In EoTV the walls come down but nobody squishes everyone into a single mess of pointlessness, hence there is no 'suicide' in accepting it. Instead people are still individuals while having access to others minds. Reality has become consensual (or possibly always was and nobody noticed until now), with individuals free to associate or dissociate with others as they please, warping their private worlds without limit and shared spaces only bound by the wills of others.
In a nutshell:
EoE = Yui wins (though Seele thinks they do, at least at first)
EoTV = Gendo wins
Rest In Peace ~ 1978 - 2017
"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
"The internet: It's like a training camp for never amounting to anything." - Oglaf
"I think internet message boards and the like are dangerous." - Anno
"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
"The internet: It's like a training camp for never amounting to anything." - Oglaf
"I think internet message boards and the like are dangerous." - Anno
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