Who wrote the original dead sea scrolls in eva?

[MongolSquad]

thanks eva monkey, your right, if you really look at some of the relegious references of the show some of it is a little distorted, like one thing is i know but not sure if this is any help is that the 'wandering jew' was actually killed, if im right by his own great great etc... grandson as punishment.

Also, I read somewhere that to the Japaneses, who are mainly buddhists, christianity and judaism to them are like myths like how Roman-Greek mythology is to us. So that explains a lot.

[Sachi]

i think i going to revive this topic.

WTF ARE THE DEAD SEA SCROLLS
that has always confused me. i never really got an explanation as to what the Scrolls were and what was written on them
please explain

[felineki]

Presumably information on Adam/Lilith, written by the folks who sent them. The specifics aren't elaborated upon in great detail, just vague statements. We actually get two glimpses of them, one of which is pretty useless (the funky writing at the end of the OP sequence), the other might have some interesting implications (a page showing what appear to be various embryos, shows up during the "Reiquarium" sequence in 23').

[BobBQ]

WTF ARE THE DEAD SEA SCROLLS

A crappy MacGuffin and not much else.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

WTF ARE THE DEAD SEA SCROLLS

A crappy MacGuffin and not much else.

LMAO!!!!!

[Szmitten]

It's not a MacGuffin. Stop misusing the term.

[chee]

The Dead Sea Scrolls are the long-lost first draft of Finnegans Wake, thus explaining why the show is so damn confusing.

[BobBQ]

It's not a MacGuffin. Stop misusing the term.

Actually, it fits the trope perfectly.

The SDSS contribute very little of relevance to the plot, and seem to exist for the sole purpose of giving the Illuminati-wannabes an excuse for making lots of evil plans when nobody else knows what's coming. Gainax could have used any one of several other items and the story would have turned out pretty much the same.

[Szmitten]

It's not a MacGuffin. Stop misusing the term.

Actually, it fits the trope perfectly.

The SDSS contribute very little of relevance to the plot, and seem to exist for the sole purpose of giving the Illuminati-wannabes an excuse for making lots of evil plans when nobody else knows what's coming. Gainax could have used any one of several other items and the story would have turned out pretty much the same.

But they already possess it. The purpose of a MacGuffin is that it drives the story forward by it being PURSUED.

The actual written contents of the SDSS aren't a MacGuffin either, it's simply SEELEs ideology, or the typical villain "MASTAAH PURAAN!"

EDIT: Actual examples of MacGuffins are R2-D2 in A New Hope (specifically, his Death Star plans), the briefcase in Pulp Fiction, the frozen embryos that Dennis stole in Jurassic Park, in the old Transformers it was energon, in the new movie it was the glasses.

[BobBQ]

But they already possess it. The purpose of a MacGuffin is that it drives the story forward by it being PURSUED.

But the whole point of the SDSS is that Seele supports Gehirn and then Nerv in order to bring about some vague and mysterious thing which is supposed to be written in said scrolls.

[MaggotMaster]

The jews did (seriouspost)

[MaggotMaster]

u fools!!!! the jews wrote them, they don't know who, but they were written i think about 3000-2500 years ago. sry if my dates are wrong.

wait, fucking beaten.

Nonetheless, perhaps we should realize some things are intentionally ambiguous, if nothing else works, FAR did it, perhaps.

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

The Secret Dead Sea scrolls are documents in the possession of SEELE which seemingly allow them to predict the future.

Some are of the opinion that the Secret Dead Sea Scrolls are in fact additional scrolls discovered with the real word Dead Sea Scrolls, and that all references to the Dead Sea in the show likewise refer to the actual real world Dead Sea in Jordan.

Personally, I think this is very unlikely. If this were the case, then reference to the Dead Sea in the show would go against the grain of every other reference to Christian and Kabbalistic terminology that appears. Adam, Eve, Lilith, the Lance of Longinus, crosses, etc, etc. All are entirely separate entities from their namesakes and at best bear only superficial conceptual similarities to the original.

As mentioned above by The Eva Monkey, the creators of the show have explicitly stated that the names and references were used only for dramatic effect. Why then should the Dead Sea and the scrolls be any different? Why this exception?

To offer an alternative explanation, I'd like to repost an argument I made previously, (archived here), on what the Dead sea, and the Dead sea scrolls are likely referring to.

So what is this Dead Sea? Apart from being mentioned vicariously through the scrolls, in episode #21' we are given the following dialouge:

Scientist : What about the Lance of Longinus?
Scientist : It's still where it was brought ashore after arriving from
the Dead Sea last week.
But we know that Adam was found buried with the Lance. But the Lance was also involved in the Antarctic contact experiment ("withdraw the Lance"). So can we presume that the Lance was removed from Adam, Adam itself transported elsewhere, and the more inflexible Lance transported afterwards.

Working off this notion, it might be reasonable to assume that both the Lance, and Adam, were found in or close to this "Dead Sea" region, which when one thinks about it, is likely in the Antarctic Geofront.

Why call it the Dead Sea? Are there any analogies? Well, in the Hakone Geofront, we are shown Lilith in Terminal Dogma, suspended over what can only be described as a "Sea" of LCL. If there were any doubt, we are in fact shown a large ship floating in this presumably vast lake, in episode #21'



Lilith was presumably found in a "Sea of LCL". LCL is taken to be the primordial soup. The soup of Life?. What about Adam?

If Adam was found in a similar sea, then why call it the "Dead Sea"? Salt content? Hardly. Perhaps it was called as such because it was somehow toxic or otherwise unsupportive of life. Could this be? Perhaps if Adam derived lifeforms and Lilith Derived Lifeforms are different enough then perhaps what is lifegiving to one is inert to the other, or perhaps even toxic. Any evidence for this?

Well, in episode #12 we are shown the "Dead world" surrounding Antarctia. An effect caused in some way, by Adam's explosion.


In episode #12 Fuyutsuki refers to Antarctica as "a world of death which permits no life to exist". In episode #21', we are told of the effects in slightly more detail, again by Fuyutsuki:
Fuyutsuki : A change in atmospheric components over a perfectly defined area...
Fuyutsuki : The complete extermination of all life right down to microorganisms....

Could the "Dead Sea" in the Antarctic Geofront have been such a place. Toxic, or at least uninhabitable to "Lilim", i.e. earth based life. Could this be a kind of rapid culture solution in which Adam and its offspring would thrive, but is designed only for them? Produced by Adam, as LCL is by Lilith, for the purposes of nurturing its offspring?

If the "Dead Sea" in NGE is indeed referring to the +ADO counterpart to LCL (ACL, ACA, LCA...? ), then what could the "Dead Sea Scrolls be referring to?

A seemingly prophetic document in the possession of SEELE that allows them to know the number of angels and seemingly future events? From it's name, it seems most likely that the Scrolls wee for in, or close to the actual shows "Dead Sea", i.e. the Antarctic Geofront. Perhaps the "Scrolls" are in fact an something more akin to an alien message, inscribed somewhere in the geofront. Messages, warnings or expositions supplied with the Geofront to either warn or educated anyone who might find them about the Geofronts and the Seeds of Life they contain?

The Scrolls then, instead of being a prophetic text, might instead be a detailed encyclopaedia of sorts from which, if one was studious enough, future events concerning the results of Second and Third Impact could be inferred. It may simply be the ADO and LDO equivalent of an anthropological text, describing how the LDOs and ADOs will act under certain circumstances. In this sense, rather than foretelling the future, SEELE could simply be inferring the (mating?) behaviour of very large and powerful animals, whose behaviour is fairly predictable.


Something else occurred to be as I was writing this. Another possible candidate for the Dead sea could be the area seen in episode #24', and the pool which Unit-01 and Unit-02 fall into. This area closely resembles the Antarctic region show in episode #12, which as discussed elsewhere(anyone have a link), could have been the result of Adam's attempt to create an LDO friendly biosphere. Perhaps it exists in the Black moon as an example of the other type of life, and perhaps it contain the "Scrolls" and their warnings about mixing the two life types.

The speculation has gone on long enough, so I'll stop now. While much of this is highly speculative, it does I think offer a better explanation for the "Dead Sea" reference in the show than the currently accepted "real World" tie in.

[BobBQ]

That's all very well, OMF, but... Well, I guess I'd like to get some clarification regarding what Chronicle says about the Spear actually being found near the Dead Sea before I say any more.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

Well, I guess I'd like to get some clarification regarding what Chronicle says about the Spear actually being found near the Dead Sea before I say any more.

Seconded!

EDIT: Oh yeah, the CI has some crap on them...

17. Dead Sea Scrolls

A. Publicly Released Information

Data unavailable.

B. Generally Recognized Information

The prophetic text in which the times of the Angels' appearances are recorded.

C. Confidential Information

Seele possess a vast amount of wealth, and, consequently, they had one face as a patron foundation of the arts and research. The Artificial Evolution Laboratory, Gehirn, etc., were funded entirely by Seele. Perhaps because of their origins as a religious organization, Seele often managed the funding support for investigations into the relics of their own faith. Among these, something was excavated that marked a significant turning point for both Seele and humankind: The Secret Dead Sea Scrolls.

D. In-Depth Information

The Secret Dead Sea Scrolls are a scripture written by the First Ancestral Race, a manual regarding the Seed of Life (Progenitor Entity) and the usage of the Spear of Longinus security device, possibly while applying a scheme at the time of use to a religious group's own doctrines. They are written prophecy, in so far as they remain active even in the current day according to a design of the past.

Until then, Seele had only fragmentary knowledge of the scrolls' contents and existence, but they had never imagined that the scrolls might actually exist, contain meaningful prophecies, and turn up in near-perfect condition. They were sent to headquarters promptly, upon which the actual truth was skewed and immediately covered up. The parts of little consequence, later released to the public, were called the Dead Sea Scrolls, whereas what Seele made off with were dubbed the Secret Dead Sea Scrolls.

Vague POS!

[Alaska Slim]

I more or less agree with what EM has stated, but there is one thing I believe he is wrong about, that God does not exist within the show.

While God might not have an apparent role in the show nor has an affect on any of the events within it, there is evidence to suggest that he does exist, or at least there is a belief of his existence. Leaving out SEELE itself which appears to be some-what religiously driven, there is first, the line Gendo himself states in episode twelve:

"Gendou : Yet, this is a purified world without impurity of the original sin."

There is sin, an act of pushing yourself AWAY from God, and a mention to the first one ever committed no less, yet God himself is absent?

There is also NERV's own motto:

"God's in his heaven-All's right with the world."

An exclusionary line, still, it suggests the belief exists elsewhere, if not within NERV.

Finally, there is what Shinji stated in episode 11:

"Shinji: Angels, messengers of the God. Our enemies of Angel names.
Why are we fighting against them? "

While I seriously doubt Shinji himself is a Christian, he does show recognition of God as being something "benevolent" and "all-good", and is confused as to why they must fight things bearing his servant's names, whom he equated as also being "all-good".

All of this shows, once again, that God does indeed exist within the Evangelion Universe, he only has no active part within story is all. 8)

[Anonymous_Evafan]

No, there is no supreme being in NGE. The Angels are another race of humans not God's servants.

[Alaska Slim]

No, there is no supreme being in NGE. The Angels are another race of humans not God's servants.

Yes I know that, but Shinji didn't until far later now did he? Up to that point, he thought of the Angels as "messengers of God", then simply as "the enemy", and was finally revealed the truth in EoE by Misato.

It all still points to that at the very least a BELIEF in God exists, that cannot be denied. 8)

[Anonymous_Evafan]

Belief in him and him actually existing are 2 very different things. When we say he doesn't exist we mean it in a purely literal sense.

[Alaska Slim]

Belief in him and him actually existing are 2 very different things. When we say he doesn't exist we mean it in a purely literal sense.

I say that's up to interpretation, as this is something, either way, that does not affect series at all, so it's rather pointless to be hardline about it. 8)