Is The S^2 Organ In The Core?

[Gazdakka Gizbang]

(This message has been deleted at the request of the author).

[Reichu]

The Sonota... I can feel it cast a haze over my mind... Oh well, I was only planning on writing really weird, drugged-out stuff anyway.

(BTW, Sonota is a sleeping pill for people like me whose bad sleeping habits are considered counterproductive for combating depression. If you stay awake long enough after taking them, things get kinda trippy.)

Yeah, no problem, if that was a compliment.......

It was an order to join the ranks of my minions. Your soul... will be mine...

Regarding your 'organic core' idea, I'll butcher it later, rather than now.

*shudders*......I'm not much of a person who would look at pictures of EVAs having sex :shock:

It's an, erm, acquired taste. The only ones I'm aware of that I didn't draw myself were from a volume of Paradise Lost, and EVA-01 mysteriously sprouted a giant black dick so that Shinji could vicariously get a BJ from Asuka (via EVA-02) and vicariously f*** Ayanami's brains out (via EVA-00). Very incredibly wrong. The stuff I have in mind is somewhat different, as it respects that fact (well, I hold it as such) that Evas are female and do not sprout giant dicks. Plus, the core is given much attention as the erogenous center of the body (aside from you-know-where).

And they engaged in those orgies, since we must refer to it in past tense. They're all dead after having a community climax up in space.

I tend to forget that, since in my twisted mind they, Kyoko, and every other dead angel and Eva all reembody in this place called Eden and .... Hmm, forget it.

Yes, I must say they all had some very disturbing fetishes. I guess they were all sick of being the submissive to Asuka and letting her do what she liked with them (and she was violent to them. What goes around comes around )

Well, she did not go so far as to eat them, although it probably would have been to her benefit, in retrospect.

Yes it was quite passionate, the only problem being that he wouldn't have actually been alive experience it.

Yes, shame... Although you know what they say about corpses, right? Maybe after a little waiting, Yui would be able to have some additional fun at Zeruel's expense. "Angel lust", anyone? :evil: (Yes, yes, I know Zeruel's not in the right position for this to occur...) You really can't expect a woman to go over ten years without that sort of thing, can you? Once Yui had spent herself completely, she was at the mercy of the recovery team.

There was also Unit 00's combat wiht the squiggly string that had a thing for the Unit's "core"

I would refer to that instead as assimilative tentacle rape -- invading both body and mind, and the invaded feels both pain and pleasure.

and Unit 02's little bear hug from the rear with the MP EVA that lost an arm.

Among the harpies, the more suspect one is the one who knocked Kyoko onto the ground and was slobbering avidly. I bet she wanted some sweet lovin', but all she got was two rounds of needles in the head.

Really? I'd love that. "The very image of Hell" is too tantalizing a name to pass up (*lloks up at sky* sorry God, I'm not inherently evil)

Sammael is your Master now.

I'll post them... later.

Yeah I'm interested. A core-less EVA is bound to get people questioning whether it was intentional, since we never saw the core at any other time.

If there weren't any other flubs in the movie, I would worry over it. As things currently stand, I'm not surprised. For something with a movie budget, there is some truly awful continuity.

Then it's settled: When we make millions of dollars and a reputation as big as Anno himself, we'll re-release a "Perfect Edition" of EoE, with the core included, and the colours altered correctly.

Actually, a Perfect Edition would entail reanimating Kyoko-sama completely, and also redoing certain portions of the bitch fight altogether. Or may as well go and eliminate all Eva-related continuity problems altogether! Ooo, I'm getting hot and bothered just thinking about it.

But mostly, I'm just tired. G'night.

[Gazdakka Gizbang]

(This post has been deleted at the request of the author)

[Mr. Tines]

It's not as if there are any obvious other word we could play tetrapiloctomy over for the role. Much better to nem. con. any satisfactory notation that needs to be invented.

Hmm... You're going to have to explain those two for me.

tetrapiloctomy - literally, from the Greek, cutting a hair into four (i.e. excessive splitting of hairs). It's a Foucault's Pendulum reference - a university Department of Tetrapiloctomy is mentioned in passing at one point.

nem. con. - abbreviation of the Latin for "no-one speaking against"; a parilamentaty/debating usage.

I'll.... uh... have to meditate over that one. :nervous laughter:

I'm saying that you possibly underestimate the allure, in such appropriate affinity groups as these, of your online persona.

What makes you say it's a "muscular ring", out of curiosity? And I suppose attaching to the core itself is really the only solution, although it means reconfiguring things if a core is stuck in there after the fact.

Primarily, that we don't see any hard tissue socket for the core when any Eva is being roughly dismantled by one or more of its peers (and if it's muscualr, that would also help with explaining the birth-like revelation of the core). Development-wise it would be like enlarging the nexus, then removing the centre.

The diaphragm would have to have a deep notch in it, if not actually be separated into two, around the core.

As in how none of the earlier Angels seemed to have cores which were anything like those in EoE and the later episodes.

Huh? Just such a core seems to be the target in both the 3rd and 4th angels

*shudders*......I'm not much of a person who would look at pictures of EVAs having sex :shock:

While I probably wouldn't actively search such stuff out, I'd still find it preferable to the majority of the Eva H- (or lemon-) stuff that I have stumbled across.

If your Avatar reflects your face.......perhaps not.

No, that's EVA-04, only without her Santa hat on... So that's in keeping with your above remark

Still, had it been positioned in Unit 02's head, Shinji would have recognised this and run out to rescue her, not sit and useessly stare

I, personally, would not underestimate Ikari-kun's ability to be useless, especially in such a deeply conflicted state as he was then.

I suspect that were intercontinental distance no issue, we'd all be laying siege to Anno's home in demands for the answers to EVA.

From what I read, that's effectively already been done, with the tenor of the response being "Work it out for yourself, or get a life."

[Gazdakka Gizbang]

(This post has been deleted at the request of the author)

[Soluzar]

I'll.... uh... have to meditate over that one. :nervous laughter:

I'm saying that you possibly underestimate the allure, in such appropriate affinity groups as these, of your online persona.

I can vouch for that.

I suspect that were intercontinental distance no issue, we'd all be laying siege to Anno's home in demands for the answers to EVA.

From what I read, that's effectively already been done, with the tenor of the response being "Work it out for yourself, or get a life."

I believe the incidents in question occurred at conventions rather than Anno-sama's own home, but this is substantially correct, in my understanding also. It's a simple fact that there are no answers for most of the truly important questions. Much of what Evangelion is, and represents can be solved, but the greatest, the deepest questions of theme and significance exist purely as a mirror, in my view. Your answer says more about you, than about Evangelion.

[Gazdakka Gizbang]

(This post has been deleted at the request of the author)

[Reichu]

I've got nothing better to do, so what the hey. If you can get my soul when you're half the world away from me, that alone deserves subservience.

I have help from the great Twelve-Winged One. He is always with me... watching over me... whispering into my ear... He has a plan for the world, and we are all but his servants.

(I wonder how many people actually take my Sammael-related rantings seriously.)

Paradise Lost? I knew there was something very sick and disturbing about it (heard the name, but never knew about it. Always suspected something...). Almost as bad as the badly-drawn Simpsons hentai pop-ups I used to get *falls off chair and collapses in painful spasms*

"Paradise Lost" is just a set of doujinshi anthologies; I think everything in them has been published somewhere else, but none of the original sources are nearly as common. While most everything in them is sick and depraved, it does have its moments.

http://evamonkey.com/reichu/fanart/paradise-lost-1_004e.jpg
http://evamonkey.com/reichu/fanart/paradise-lost-1_005e.jpg
http://evamonkey.com/reichu/fanart/paradise-lost-1_006e.jpg
http://evamonkey.com/reichu/fanart/paradise-lost-1_007e.jpg
http://evamonkey.com/reichu/fanart/paradise-lost-1_008e.jpg

You know what? Maybe that's why all the Angels' cores are "hard". It scarily explains it. No wonder Sachiel blew himself up, after Unit 01 destroyed his manhood with his own rib :P

I'd be hesitant to describe the cores as anyone's "manhood" (the things are tinged with feminine symbolism, at least where the Evas are concerned)... Although going to 'erogenous' route, we have uncovered the very reason why most Angels stop fighting back once their cores are targeted.

http://evamonkey.com/reichu/stupid/making-fireworks.jpg

I tend to forget that, since in my twisted mind they, Kyoko, and every other dead angel and Eva all reembody in this place called Eden and .... Hmm, forget it.

Well your perspective does provide one thing: Everybody's happy, even the Angels! And what a way to go!

Oh, not really. It just provides the set-up for another saga of suffering. Soluzar knows all about it -- don't you, boy?

Yeah, screw the manga method of capturing Unit 01, this makes a lot more sense !!! I'm not really against necrophilia anyway (never bothered complaining about it), and "girls just wanna have fun" to say the least. I feel another comic inspiration coming on...*stifles thought*

I commend Sadamoto for TRYING to explain her capture, but the explanation never really worked, IMO. The only way you are going to recapture a rampaging goddess with unlimited power is if she gives herself back willingly. Or, well, falls into a post-orgasmic slumber or something. :P

I would refer to that instead as assimilative tentacle rape -- invading both body and mind, and the invaded feels both pain and pleasure.

Well Rei gave a little orgasmic cry just before she died, so it wasn't all that bad for her. I may never look at Armisael the same way again though.....

Rei did? You mean in the shot where EVA-00 creepily 'morphs' into a giant, naked Rei? I never thought it was especially clear WHO was making the odd noise, there.... I'm certainly not making up the "pleasure/pain", though. I thought it was blatantly obvious from Rei's blushing and the rather suggestive arching of the back, but when I looked in the script, it was essentially spelled out. I felt so vindicated.

tetrapiloctomy - literally, from the Greek, cutting a hair into four (i.e. excessive splitting of hairs). It's a Foucault's Pendulum reference - a university Department of Tetrapiloctomy is mentioned in passing at one point.

nem. con. - abbreviation of the Latin for "no-one speaking against"; a parilamentaty/debating usage.

Hmm... alright. I shall have to work hard to make these permanent additions to my vocabulary.

I'll.... uh... have to meditate over that one. :nervous laughter:

I'm saying that you possibly underestimate the allure, in such appropriate affinity groups as these, of your online persona.

Aww, thanks. That's very sweet of you to say.

Primarily, that we don't see any hard tissue socket for the core when any Eva is being roughly dismantled by one or more of its peers

Hmm, when is this?

(and if it's muscualr, that would also help with explaining the birth-like revelation of the core).

Eh, are you talking about the EoE scene?

Development-wise it would be like enlarging the nexus, then removing the centre.

Can you elaborate for this poor stickler? (Rachel enjoys asking questions.)

The diaphragm would have to have a deep notch in it, if not actually be separated into two, around the core.

Would that still be functional, you think? I'm not much familiar with the mechanics of this muscle (time to learn, I suppose).

If your Avatar reflects your face.......perhaps not.

No, that's EVA-04, only without her Santa hat on... So that's in keeping with your above remark

@Gizbang: No, I can never hope to sufficiently match "Barb"'s ravishing good looks. And BTW, "Barb" actually is EVA-03 (see sig). The whole thing with Zero/San as a lesbian couple is an ongoing 'motif' with me and can be completely blamed on a certain scene in episode #18. I haven't done many naked EVA-04s as of yet, but when I do, she'll be sort of like "Barb"'s darker twin -- skin nearly black, one eye red, the other blue.

I, personally, would not underestimate Ikari-kun's ability to be useless, especially in such a deeply conflicted state as he was then.

If you got a quid every time you bashed Ikari-kun...

From what I read, that's effectively already been done, with the tenor of the response being "Work it out for yourself, or get a life."

...or get so embroiled in the process of working it out that you forget about getting a life.

I'll put this thread back on track later, and go get a couple more hours of sleep before I wake up and finish the Sextuple-Breasted Beast of Babylon. If I really wanted to, I could try to relate her (Tiamat) back to NGE... In fact, Biscuit, you actually made the comment about how Marduk, in slaying Tiamat, was effectively killing his mother-figure. Does that have an iota of bearing upon why it's called "Marduk Organization"? You got me...

[Gazdakka Gizbang]

Paradise Lost" is just a set of doujinshi anthologies; I think everything in them has been published somewhere else, but none of the original sources are nearly as common. While most everything in them is sick and depraved, it does have its moments.

lmao. That wasn't half as depraved as I thought it would be well......save for the third maybe

I-It's like, warm and yellow....

Things kind of got strange after that... :P

I'd be hesitant to describe the cores as anyone's "manhood" (the things are tinged with feminine symbolism, at least where the Evas are concerned)... Although going to 'erogenous' route, we have uncovered the very reason why most Angels stop fighting back once their cores are targeted.

http://evamonkey.com/reichu/stupid/making-fireworks.jpg

Well perhaps I'd take the "manhood" statement back, but the cores may not be so tinged with feminism. Just like the Bible, where Eve was derived from Adam, the Evangelions were derived in the same respect, and so it is technically "male symbolism", but the cores that we get an in-depth exploration of are feminine. What makes the EVA cores "feminine" are the arrangements of the beads as you said, where it is defined as a "vulvic" arrangement, but no such thing is present with the Angels, and guess which one came first?

I commend Sadamoto for TRYING to explain her capture, but the explanation never really worked, IMO. The only way you are going to recapture a rampaging goddess with unlimited power is if she gives herself back willingly. Or, well, falls into a post-orgasmic slumber or something. :P

Well as a matter of fact I came up with both conclusions the first time I watched EVA. Though not as intricate as hiding nets in the missile launchers throughout the city, I thought it was either NERV restrained it with the "bandages" or Yui willingly gave in (e.g: "powered" down like in Episode 2). Post-organic slumber scarily fits the bill in a way, but I wouldn't ever count to Anno featuring it in another Director's Cut version. 8)

Rei did? You mean in the shot where EVA-00 creepily 'morphs' into a giant, naked Rei? I never thought it was especially clear WHO was making the odd noise, there.... I'm certainly not making up the "pleasure/pain", though. I thought it was blatantly obvious from Rei's blushing and the rather suggestive arching of the back, but when I looked in the script, it was essentially spelled out. I felt so vindicated.

Maybe it was both. Armisael seemed to be happy to some extent

@Gizbang: No, I can never hope to sufficiently match "Barb"'s ravishing good looks. And BTW, "Barb" actually is EVA-03 (see sig).

w00t! I was right! I knew I had seen it somewhere... I was about to say that it is quite a good model. If you made it yourself then I'm very impressed.

The whole thing with Zero/San as a lesbian couple is an ongoing 'motif' with me and can be completely blamed on a certain scene in episode #18. I haven't done many naked EVA-04s as of yet, but when I do, she'll be sort of like "Barb"'s darker twin -- skin nearly black, one eye red, the other blue.

And in turn it will spawn many lesbian EVA fans, along with some peculiar lesbian action. I've got to see the reactions of other people when they see it (i,e: wtf?!??!?)

If you got a quid every time you bashed Ikari-kun...

She's got a point. You really do appear to dislike the kid.

[Mr. Tines]

Primarily, that we don't see any hard tissue socket for the core when any Eva is being roughly dismantled by one or more of its peers

Hmm, when is this?

Eps #18 and 25' - though admittedly the sequences are heavy on gore, but light on autopsy detail. Assuming soft tissue for the socket means that there's no worry about where an obvious ring or cup of bone should have been seen. The model thus fits the observed data without so much special pleading.

(and if it's muscular, that would also help with explaining the birth-like revelation of the core).

Eh, are you talking about the EoE scene?

The groundwork images you linked to recently, and I'm too lazy to chase, showing a very vulval setting for the core; there's an obvious muscular structrue for such a setting.

Development-wise it would be like enlarging the nexus, then removing the centre.

Can you elaborate for this poor stickler? (Rachel enjoys asking questions.)

Sonething like from

\|/
-.-
/|\

to

\|/
-0-
/|\

Enlarge the '.' where everything meets beyond what is simply required to join all the converging strands; then, as the know beomes much fatter than the strands, remove the centre, which will, in any case, be under lower stress than the periphery.

Whether the modified diaphragm that would have to be in place to accomodate the whole structure would function, I have no idea. Probaly it hase something to do with AT fields, in the same way that they manage to defy square/cube law effects.

And BTW, "Barb" actually is EVA-03 (see sig).

Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

If you got a quid every time you bashed Ikari-kun...

If only...

But actually, I knd of thought that was the point - that Shinji is not the all-purpose action hero; and at the particular instant, he's a civilian. It's not supposed to be his problem any more, any more than it is for the other people in the shelter.

[Reichu]

lmao. That wasn't half as depraved as I thought it would be well......save for the third maybe ... Things kind of got strange after that... :P

Be thankful I haven't translated the rest of it yet.

Well perhaps I'd take the "manhood" statement back, but the cores may not be so tinged with feminism. Just like the Bible, where Eve was derived from Adam, the Evangelions were derived in the same respect, and so it is technically "male symbolism",

That relies on the assumption that Adam is male to begin with. Kaworu throws us in for a loop by referring to Adam specifically as "our mother".

but the cores that we get an in-depth exploration of are feminine. What makes the EVA cores "feminine" are the arrangements of the beads as you said, where it is defined as a "vulvic" arrangement, but no such thing is present with the Angels, and guess which one came first?

There are actually other instances, as well.

Yui-sama essentially 'birthes' Shinji through her core in episode #20.



In EoE, the fusion of EVA-01 and the Spear is symbolic of sexual union: The Spear represents a phallus (yes, I do concede here that it represents such), and, before receiving it, a 'vaginal' concavity forms in the core, the 'lips' of which embrace the tip of the Spear before fusion occurs.







Even consider what happens to EVA-00 in episode #23 -- the grotesque swelling of the core (with the one named after the Angel of the Womb, no less) seems a grotesque mockery of pregnancy.



I even think the core in episodes #19 and #20 evokes a somewhat clitoral image, but that's probably just my twisted mind at work.





Of course, this says nothing about the Angels, unless one wanted to read into the "penetration" of the core by Prog Knives or whatever, but I'll just as soon not go there.

Well as a matter of fact I came up with both conclusions the first time I watched EVA. Though not as intricate as hiding nets in the missile launchers throughout the city, I thought it was either NERV restrained it with the "bandages" or Yui willingly gave in (e.g: "powered" down like in Episode 2). Post-organic slumber scarily fits the bill in a way, but I wouldn't ever count to Anno featuring it in another Director's Cut version. 8)

"Post-organic"? :P

I think the latter option is the only one that really works. Ritsuko said it herself, that there was no way they could stop Eva. It was rather disappointing to get to #20 and she's magically back in the Cage again, with no explanation whatsoever for how it happened. Crazy as devouring a fresh Angel with one's bare teeth is, there was a definite rationale behind Yui's actions. Once she got her kicks, what could she stand to gain by going to the surface and rampaging about? Not much to do but go dormant and wait for her time to come.

Maybe it was both. Armisael seemed to be happy to some extent

What was both...?

w00t! I was right! I knew I had seen it somewhere... I was about to say that it is quite a good model. If you made it yourself then I'm very impressed.

No "ifs" about it. How could there exist a single doubt in your mind that it could be a product of any other but me?

The groundwork images you linked to recently, and I'm too lazy to chase, showing a very vulval setting for the core; there's an obvious muscular structrue for such a setting.

It's impossible, though, to distinguish actual nuclear flesh from the "Evaplast" that's been split and pushed to the sides. I'm inclined to think the 'labia', anyway, are just an artifact, albeit one used to symbolic effect.

Whether the modified diaphragm that would have to be in place to accomodate the whole structure would function, I have no idea. Probaly it hase something to do with AT fields, in the same way that they manage to defy square/cube law effects.

Actually, now that I actually bother to check, there wouldn't be any problems at all! ;;



Don't I feel silly!

Enlarge the '.' where everything meets beyond what is simply required to join all the converging strands; then, as the know beomes much fatter than the strands, remove the centre, which will, in any case, be under lower stress than the periphery.

'The know'?

I think I sort of understand what you're saying, but I just want to make sure.

The rectus abdominis are still a problem, though, unless we could (ignoring any conflicting evidence in the mogitai) assume that the solar plexus area is preconfigured to 'expect' to accomodate a core. So the rectus abdominis are, comparatively to us, pushed down the elongate torso, and a system of connective (possibly muscular?) tissue that converges upon the 'baby core' and its surrounding nucleolae exists above it. But what would the abdominals attach to?

I'm rather interested in solving this particular problem, if a viable means of doing so exists... since it's been a long-running hobby of mine to develop the most practical and functional anatomical/physiological scheme for the Evas possible. The idea that the core might start as a 'seed' in the chest is nothing I haven't been playing with, and, in fact, the child Evangelions in that story of mine start off this way, the core only expanding to adult proportions with physical maturity. (Adolescence is always tough.) If that part of their body 'expects' to accomodate the structure eventually, so much the better.

[Mr. Tines]

'The know'?

Um, that should be "knot".

[Reichu]

Gee, this one died awfully fast. Is my fun really over already? :(

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

Gee, this one died awfully fast. Is my fun really over already? :(

I think we're all just in agreement that indeed the S^2 organ is present in the core. We seem to be debating the surrounding issues now, such as the location of the core and its erogenous/reproductive organ status within the Eva.

One point I would like to bring back up is Nerv's seeming inability to grow or culture an S^2 organ. Once again I don't think this is the result of Nerv engineering the organ out. I think they are incabale, for whatever reason, to grow one at all. I think the lack of soul in the embryonic Eva might well be the reason for this.

[DatDude]

and you draw that conclusion from this air how? Is that an eva technical manual in EP 27 or somthing? :roll:

[Soluzar]

and you draw that conclusion from this air how? Is that an eva technical manual in EP 27 or somthing? :roll:

Without context, it's hard to know. Are you directing that coment at our mathematically inclined colleague? If so, I agree. OMF, you must learn the meaning of the word "Evidence". Until you do, all that you understand and believe will be as barren as a desert, because it is unsupported by the observable facts. You have a talent for analysis, nobody will deny that, but an assertion is not the same as a fact.

[Dave]

...but an assertion is not the same as a fact.

You're right, they're much better. Facts are so stale, they're like the nerd near the punch bowl at the school prom. Without assertions, we would still be in the dark ages. Of course, without facts we probably wouldn't have these wonderful computers, but that's just a minor inconvenience.

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

and you draw that conclusion from this air how? Is that an eva technical manual in EP 27 or somthing? :roll:

It's not a conclusion, it's a conjecture. I'm asking what you think of this idea.

Evidence in favour of it might be the fact that the Eva's are most likely genetic copies of Adam, and as such should have the genetic instructions to grow an S^2 organ. But Nerv seem unable to create an S^2 organ, so perhaps there is another reason why the S^2 organ is not present within the Eva's.
Perhaps the reason is the lack of a soul within the embryonic Eva. If the S^2 organ is in the core, and the soul resides within the core, can we conjecture that the absence of a soul withing the embryonic Eva would lead to core and/or S^2 organ underdevelopment, to the extent that Nerv are unable to obtain an S^2 organ in any other way than salvage from the Angels?

What do you think of this conjecture? Do you think it is wrong, or could it be improved upon in some way?

[Reichu]

I hate it when people call the Evas "copies". ;) But then, let's try an analogy. If your assignment in art class is to make a copy of the Mona Lisa, but you give her blue skin, pink hair, five eyes, and put her on the planet Mars, is it still a "copy"?

I was using this thread as a way to put out some of my own unanswered questions about cores and get feedback, but things just seemed to suddenly and abruptly die with my last picture-filled post. I thought it was kind of puzzling, myself.

I'm fine with the conjecture you've come up with, OMF, so long as it entails moving the 'beads' we see on the soulless mogitai down the chest a ways. ;) If that is what they were intended to be, though -- and I am absolutely clueless about what else they could possibly represent -- it raises the question of why we see EVA-01 with only two in #19, #20, and #23, but the additional two that complete the four-nucleolae configuration only appear in EoE.

The other question is what the hell nucleolae are supposed to be in the first place. I've solved that one for myself in the realm of self-servicing AU, but not as far as the show itself is concerned.

[Soluzar]

I'm fine with the conjecture you've come up with, OMF, so long as it entails moving the 'beads' we see on the soulless mogitai down the chest a ways. ;) If that is what they were intended to be, though -- and I am absolutely clueless about what else they could possibly represent -- it raises the question of why we see EVA-01 with only two in #19, #20, and #23, but the additional two that complete the four-nucleolae configuration only appear in EoE.

I will insist, however, that it remain in the forefront of this debate that it is only a conjecture, and I will make it my business to point that out, at all stages. It's not even supported by much evidence. I don't dislike the idea, though.

The other question is what the hell nucleolae are supposed to be in the first place. I've solved that one for myself in the realm of self-servicing AU, but not as far as the show itself is concerned.

I'm not speaking out against so-called "overanalysis" when I say this, but I can go to my grave comfortable not knowing. I have a fairly sound idea what they are, even if it has no fundamental evidence to support it, and I think this is one of those instances where since it doesn't affect anything in the story, the nucleolae can be whatever you want them to be. I'm very cautious about applying that philosophy, but I suspect that this is one instance in which it is entirely valid.