Ritsuko and Hikari

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Ritsuko and Hikari

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Postby V » Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:21 am

how are Ritsuko and Hikari the same, and how are they different? lets compare and contrast the two

because BOTH seem to be particularly strict and desiring "Order"...Ritsuko, the no-nonsense head of Nerv's science department, and Hikari, the class president who is trying to enforce some semblance of order in a classroom run by some unattentive old man with no classroom control

both are from one-parent households, but there are differences:

Ritsuko "never knew her father" thanks to Naoko (they don't explain this too clearly, some suggest Ritsuko is a test-tube baby, but I think the simplest answer being the most probable, Naoko just left Ritsuko's father when she was too young to remember him). Ritsuko forever grew up in the shadow of her mother. The Naoko-Ritsuko relationship is interesting and complex, in that Ritsuko didn't hate Naoko as a person, and respected her as a scientist, and was on generally friendly "speaking terms" with her as another adult......but as a mother, Naoko was just not very attentive to Ritsuko, always caught up in her work. Not to say that she was ignored like Shinji (Naoko did bother to at least write letters back and forth) but on the whole, quite simply Naoko's work got in the way of having much of a mother-daughter relationship. So Ritsuko effectively had both and absent father and barely there mother.

I think that's what most of the Class 2-A kids are like actually; they don't have a mother, and their fathers are busy working. Possible commentary on salaryman-culture office workers of Japan? (btw, its implied that some of the other Class 2-A kids have "mothers", but the easy explanation is that logically, as with Asuka, some of their fathers probably remarried over the years)

Hikari, on the other hand, isn't this only child being raised by a distant parent whose shadow she lives in. Instead, she's got an older and younger sister, and seems more or less well balanced.

She "stepped up" to the role of being the den mother for her other 2 sisters, and she sort of "stepped up" into the role of trying "to be the teacher", that is, trying to enforce classroom control and yelling at the others kids to follow the rules.

So in both cases, she's basically the kid trying to "step up" and fill in the role of primary authority, but......I don't know if its the same kind of "Order".

I think Hikari wants order because she's trying to "promote stability" in a fractured home/school setting, while Ritsuko is....trying to regain a measure of control she lost as the child of a more famous scientist. These are different causes.

But would you call any of them Paranoid? that's the question. I mean in a psychology sense.

The thing is, some of them are "deeply suspicious of those around them" at times........but it usually turns out that such suspicions are ENTIRELY justified! "Paranoid" is when they are not.

I.e. both Ritsuko and Naoko are suspicious of Gendo and Rei.....but their suspicions are entirely grounded in fact and based on evidence they encounter.

Could we call Hikari "Paranoid"? in the sense that she's imagining scenarios that aren't there?

Well, one of what I thought were the funniest thing in the series, is when in episode 18, Hikari thinks Rei is trying to steal Toji from her! *Rei* of all people. And just because she's having a conversation with him alone.

Then again, she is a teenager in love, and might just be jealous because of Toji.

Still, going so far as to suspect that Rei might be in love with Toji behind her back, is kind of a zany idea. So is this full-blown "Paranoid"?

I....really don't think anyone in the series has UNjustified paranoia.

Still, Ritsuko and Hikari are pretty obsessive-compulsive, striving for order.

What do you think?

I think there isn't a one-for-one correspondance given that Hikari has a better social life with less pressure on her than Ritsuko ever had.

It's just that I increasingly realize that virtually the only "sane" person in the entire series, is actually Toji. That is to say, yes, he's a jock....but he's also emotionally more perceptive and mature than the others: 1-he accurately realizes that Shinji and Asuka bickering as they do is a sign that they are mutually attracted to each other 2-he accurately realizes that Rei seems to be "attracted" (even in a general emotional sense) to Shinji, even before Rei can put this concept in words 3-when Hikari strongly implies that she likes Toji, Toji's response is measured and mature (unlike Shinji's utter fumbling of the Asuka advances in early episodes)

As for Fuyutsuki....he's fairly "sane" but he's also got that unrequited crush on Yui. otherwise, they said he's an aloof academic who doesn't normally spend time with other people. Then again, what do expect from a guy who's basically been forced into helping Nerv under the threat of death, only really helping Gendo because he realizes he's the lesser of two evils?
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Postby Otakon 08 Ikari » Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:29 am

Very nice write up, I'll have to take some time to think about what you wrote.

Ill update later..
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Re: Ritsuko and Hikari

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Postby NemZ » Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:32 am

V wrote:What do you think?


No offense V, but I think this is an entirely new level of reaching.

The things they have in common are things that nearly the entire cast have in common. Everyone has trauma, everyone has generational conflict, and everyone is required to step up.

I agree on Toji, but I don't know what he has to do with anything at all. You started a tangent in the OP!
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Postby Otakon 08 Ikari » Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:34 am

Eva fans..Reaching new levels every day. I see nothing wrong with this. But I guess that I see nothing wrong cause I would take the time to write something like this as well.
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Postby jim_loves_randy » Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:54 am

I didn't really notice it before, but I now realize that a theme of the series is how important a person's family is to their development, and all of the character's problems can be attributed to the varying, broken states of their family/childhood. We see depictions of the missing parent(s), the suicidal parent, and the occupied, working parent among others. All of them affected their child's mental health in a very profound, damaging way. And the whole series revolves around the characters' mental states.

Thanks for this.

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Postby TheAyanamiOtaku » Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:24 am

jim has a very good point. the cause and the effect....

V: I don't really think "being paranoid" is actually being paranoid. It's closer to being possessive.

5 wrote:he accurately realizes that Shinji and Asuka bickering as they do is a sign that they are mutually attracted to each other


We do not know if Touji was serious or joking. But "2" and "3" of your points strongly point to, but do not prove, your conclusion.
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Postby V » Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:16 am

ALL we do in LOTR fandom is compare "minutiae of detail" (as the Bene Gesserit would say) and try to rationalize and extrapolate how this informs us about something in the books, given that the author is dead and the entire fandom is dead-set against the idea of anyone continuing the stories because they weren't meant to be (this also makes far less fanfic; or rather...in Star Trek you write good enough fanfic, it could become a spinoff book. But no one in LOTR fandom has illusions about your fanfic becoming "real", so there's tacit agreement that it's "just fanfic"; thus there's still fanfic, so the pro-fanfic people are happy, but all agree that it will never supercede the original and is indeed, usually just "flights of fancy" for fun, thus the anti-fanfic people are happy. The problem is that with other series, any hack with a word processor and lots of free time thinks they're a good writer becuase they can physically make words appear on a screen.

But I digress.....

the point is that I don't think anyone in Eva fits the "Paranoid" personality model of "imagining elaborate plots against you where none can possibly exist".....that's not the same thing as Asuka's narcissism, mind you, that's a more realistic "I think people hold a grudge against me and I'm suspicious of their motivations" thing, but it isn't "physical". "Paranoid" literally thinks that say, if your shoelaces are untied, that someone snuck up behind you and untied them. Thinking actual physical events are caused by other people's grudges.
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Postby UrsusArctos » Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:40 am

LOTR? Dune? Star Trek?

THIS IS EEEVVVAAAAA!!!

What do you think?


Umm...don't really see the connection between them. "Striving for order" is very generic. Just about anyone from across the cast could be considered as striving for order in one way or the other.
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Postby Reichu » Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:44 am

1. Pick two characters' names out of a hat.
2. Write wall of text about their purported similarities, along with self-inflicted tangents.
3. ??????
4. PROFIT!
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Postby master_lloyd » Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:21 am

Looking at the title of this thread I was sooo expecting a Yuri fanfic.

Slightly disappointed...
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Postby AyrYntake » Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:39 am

Reichu wrote:1. Pick two characters' names out of a hat.
2. Write wall of text about their purported similarities, along with self-inflicted tangents.
3. ??????
4. PROFIT!

lolwin

Do the characters even have to be from the same storyline?
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Postby Sachi » Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:03 am

I think Hikari is the only character without any "problems" or paranoia. She seems to be one of the more well-balanced characters of the show. Her being "paranoid" about Rei and Toji doesn't mean she's paranoid like Shinji thinking everybody is out to make his life miserable. She's not "insane" for thinking that. She's just a normal, yet a bit too mature, teenage girl. Her believing Rei and Toji were a thing is actually her child-like self kicking in, she can't be an adult all the time.

V wrote:1-he accurately realizes that Shinji and Asuka bickering as they do is a sign that they are mutually attracted to each other

As TAO pointed out, I think he was just joking. V, if you've ever been to high school, you'll know that people will get teased like this for the simplest things.
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Postby CorporalChaos » Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:16 pm

Reichu wrote:1. Pick two characters' names out of a hat.
2. Write wall of text about their purported similarities, along with self-inflicted tangents.
3. ??????
4. PROFIT!

http://www.evageeks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1726

Oh, you mean like this? Even though this was mostly poking fun at your connection of Dr. Katsuragi and Kaworu, IIRC...
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Postby AyrYntake » Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:36 pm

You made a profit from that? Do tell.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:49 pm

V wrote:1-he accurately realizes that Shinji and Asuka bickering as they do is a sign that they are mutually attracted to each other


Sachi_13 wrote:As TAO pointed out, I think he was just joking. V, if you've ever been to high school, you'll know that people will get teased like this for the simplest things.


I think this is a case of Toji being more perceptive then people give him credit for: For instance, he also pointed out that Rei was worried about Shinji when Rei didn't realize this was the case...

It's possible Toji was joking, like you suggested, but this is just a thought.
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Postby Reichu » Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:19 pm

"Many a true word is spoken in jest"?
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Re: Ritsuko and Hikari

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Postby MatrixRefugee » Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:30 pm

V wrote:As for Fuyutsuki....he's fairly "sane" but he's also got that unrequited crush on Yui. otherwise, they said he's an aloof academic who doesn't normally spend time with other people. Then again, what do expect from a guy who's basically been forced into helping Nerv under the threat of death, only really helping Gendo because he realizes he's the lesser of two evils?


:: Laughs:: Great minds, they *do* think alike. I've had the very same thoughts about Fuyutsuki, that he's probably the only sane mind in NERV, and about the only sane person in the entire series.
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Re: Ritsuko and Hikari

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Postby Sachi » Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:14 pm

MatrixRefugee wrote::: Laughs:: Great minds, they *do* think alike. I've had the very same thoughts about Fuyutsuki, that he's probably the only sane mind in NERV, and about the only sane person in the entire series.

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Postby jim_loves_randy » Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:30 pm

They act like children or something, no? Or at least have the same hobbies.

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Postby NemZ » Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:22 pm

jim_loves_randy wrote:They act like children or something, no? Or at least have the same hobbies.


Yes, because I'm sure NO ONE on this site would be caught dead reading novels, manga, or playing air guitar. :rolleyes:
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