Is Rei or Kaworu made of "Particle wave matter"?

[Ornette]

I don't buy it either (I've posted in previous discussions that the scan was just a scan), but that wasn't my point. We already know there are lots of visual cues in the series, and some of them can be dismissed, and some were just mistakes, Shin-seiki was trying to link some visual cues. IMO, it's not something you give as "proof", but there's enough hints throughout the series to at least consider it.

[AuraTwilight]

There's also the whole thing about Rei's spare bodies being able to maintain themselves with souls. That's pretty PWMlicious.

[Count A'ight]

Your first pictures are of Evangelions and INSIDE Evangelions, which are artificial humans MADE OUT OF PARTICLE WAVE MATTER. You're proving the point with these two.

The first also displayed the restraints in pretty rainbow colors, and I'm pretty sure that the restraints are made of normal, non-wave metal.

The second was the interior of the entry plug, which I'd also bet is made of normal matter.

The fourth and fifth are backgrounds to the data. If they were rainbow-y in the data itself, you might have a point... The rainbows in the graphs are ways to allow humans to easily see what's happening at a glance. This is a normal way of making graphs.

That's an extremely weak counterargument. What I'm pointing out is that NERV likes to use pretty rainbow colors on their computer displays. This background/foreground nonsense is a red herring.

Call me color-blind, but I'm seeing lighting effects that don't cover a whole spectrum in your Misato pic. Please correct me if blue and red are included.

It's not the WHOLE spectrum, but it's clearly redder toward the top right and bluer toward the bottom left.

There's also the whole thing about Rei's spare bodies being able to maintain themselves with souls. That's pretty PWMlicious.

How so?

[Reichu]

How so?

Aura's post presumably contained a typo; should be "without souls". It's "PWMlicious" because LCL-based organisms rely on their ATFs, and hence their souls, for physical integrity, whereas PWM-based ones do not (Lilith for majority of show, Adam embryo, Evas prior to soul implantation, dead Angels/Evas).

[Legendary]

The first also displayed the restraints in pretty rainbow colors, and I'm pretty sure that the restraints are made of normal, non-wave metal.

The second was the interior of the entry plug, which I'd also bet is made of normal matter.

There's no actual evidence either way.

That's an extremely weak counterargument. What I'm pointing out is that NERV likes to use pretty rainbow colors on their computer displays. This background/foreground nonsense is a red herring.

It's a weak argument to say that there's a difference between what's a background and what's actual data?

It's not the WHOLE spectrum, but it's clearly redder toward the top right and bluer toward the bottom left.

True, but what's this background, anyways? A wall? The sky?

[Count A'ight]

LCL-based organisms rely on their ATFs, and hence their souls, for physical integrity, whereas PWM-based ones do not (Lilith for majority of show, Adam embryo, Evas prior to soul implantation, dead Angels/Evas).

You seem to be forgetting that dead humans do not normally revert back to LCL.

Being tangified seems to require something above and beyond mere removal of the soul.

It's a weak argument to say that there's a difference between what's a background and what's actual data?

Yes.

[Reichu]

You seem to be forgetting that dead humans do not normally revert back to LCL.

We see Rei return to the bodies of the dead and melt them down to LCL, presumably because there are still souls inside that need to be liberated.

[Legendary]

It's a weak argument to say that there's a difference between what's a background and what's actual data?

Yes.

Why?

[Count A'ight]

We see Rei return to the bodies of the dead and melt them down to LCL, presumably because there are still souls inside that need to be liberated.

Yes. And? As far as we know, tangification only happens in the context of (a) soul-harvesting and (b) an Eva looking at a pilot's soul and going NOM NOM NOM

Why?

In this picture, is it the data or the background that's in pretty rainbow colors?

[slothen]

The first two show unit 01, made from PWM
The third is Rei surrounded by a rainbow. The assertion being made is that Rei is from PWM
the fourth is ramiel... PWM
fifth is Jet Alone.. not PWM
The picture of the light is not a display, that's just how light diffracts
The computer attack is from Iruel, and angel
The rest don't have the distinct color gradient, so I don't see how they are relevant.

Regardless, I don't think that Rei eating regular food is reason to believe she's made from regular matter. Kaworu is made from PWM, and so we know that PWM can take the form of a human body. We also know PWM and regular matter exhibit many of the same properties. It seems natural that PWM can bond and iteract in the exact same way as regular matter, with similar chemical reactions and such. Similar to how different isotopes of elements bond in exactly the same way, even though they have different mass and possibly radioactive. So I figure a PWM being like Rei or Kaworu would be able to digest regular food normally. Maybe this explains Rei's pills.

Anyway, this was a question I had never thought of before, so I'm just throwing ideas around.

[Count A'ight]

Oh, that reminds me... at what point is it established that the Evas are made of PWM?

[Ornette]

Yes. And? As far as we know, tangification only happens in the context of (a) soul-harvesting and (b) an Eva looking at a pilot's soul and going NOM NOM NOM

It means the soul remains in a body after it's dead. It's not that hard to connect the dots: ATF comes from the soul (Kaworu's line in 24); the ATF is what keeps the body's shape (episode 25 & 26 and Rei's line in EoE); without an ATF, the body loses its shape (EoE's AATF); after someone dies, they still hold their shape; therefore, the soul must still be in the body after they're dead.

The dead Nerv personel in EoE further supports this.

Rei's clones in the tank do not have souls (Ritsuko), yet they're able to maintain their shape.

Oh, that reminds me... at what point is it established that the Evas are made of PWM?

They are created without souls, yet they are able to maintain their own shape. They were create from Adam (and Eva-01, to some degree, from Lilith). Both Adam and Lilith are made of PWM. Eva-01 was able to regenerate two different times, Angels (made of PWM) can also regnerate, presumably, in the NGE world, homo sapiens cannot instantaneously regenerate. Also related to the topic, Rei regenerates her arm in EoE.

[slothen]

Rei's clones in the tank do not have souls (Ritsuko), yet they're able to maintain their shape.

given this, Rei III couldn't have been made of PWM.

[Legendary]

Rei III WAS a clone in the tank. She did not have a soul until it was given to her, but was able to maintain her shape regardless. That's PWM.

[Count A'ight]

It means the soul remains in a body after it's dead... after someone dies, they still hold their shape; therefore, the soul must still be in the body after they're dead.

Yes, but not indefinitely. The soul has to leave the corpse eventually, and when that happens... still no Tang.

Both Adam and Lilith are made of PWM.

Adam, certainly; but when was it established that the same holds true of Lilith?

EDIT: Remembers uber-Rei "fingering" Maya
Never mind

Angels (made of PWM) can also regnerate

Not instantaneously, though... that talent seems to be reserved for Lilith, Rei, and Shogouki.

Also related to the topic, Rei regenerates her arm in EoE.

Yeah. Because she has the soul of Lilith.

[Ornette]

Yes, but not indefinitely. The soul has to leave the corpse eventually, and when that happens... still no Tang.

I'm not sure what Tang has to do with this, as you're "how so", I assume, was about what I outlined. Rei's clones didn't have souls and they still hold their shape.

Both Adam and Lilith are made of PWM.

Adam, certainly; but when was it established that the same holds true of Lilith?

Using the no soul -> no ATF -> still has shape idea.

May as well link to some of the older discussions about this matter since I'm just rehashing them:
A.T. Field Technicalities
Did Rei1,2,3 have souls ?
Reichu's Revelations: Rei, Kaworu, and Everything in Between (This one's about a lot of things, and also, read at your own risk)
Depth of Shinji and Rei's relationship (Start at the last few pages in this one)
Eligibility for HIP / Nature of Souls (maybe starting around page 6 or 7)

[AuraTwilight]

Yes, but not indefinitely. The soul has to leave the corpse eventually, and when that happens... still no Tang.

Says who? What, in the series, says that the soul eventually leaves the body? It's not like souls in the Evaverse go to Heaven, or anything.

[Zaque]

Not instantaneously, though... that talent seems to be reserved for Lilith, Rei, and Shogouki.

Don't forget Shinji and Asuka and all the other people who have regenerated from LCL. :P

I think PWM and LCL are pretty much the same thing. The can certainly merge without much problem. However, there definitely is some sort of conversion mechanism between them. Anyway, I think that if we can show that adam or lilith are made of PWM, then Rei and kaworu are also using the major linkages present in the series. However, being seeds of life, they may be made of something entirely different. (QMM quantum magic matter? :P) Is there a linkage from angel to seed of life being the same material, because for sure, angels are made of PWM.

EDIT: That eva01 was able to absorb PWM in ep19, and Rei was able to absorb LCL in EoE may also be of some importance here...

Btw, no soul does not mean no shape. It also doesn't mean no soul must be PWM. Besides, we also only see tanging when a soul is present immediately prior to tanging.

[Joseph the PRPD]

Half of Kaworu was made in California.

Some one will win a prize if they get that joke.

[AuraTwilight]

I think PWM and LCL are pretty much the same thing. The can certainly merge without much problem.

I think you and I are pretty much the same person. We can certainly merge without much problem.

See the problem here? Anyway, they're not the same thing. PWM is factually stated to be unlike anything else known to silence, including LCL.

Don't forget Shinji and Asuka and all the other people who have regenerated from LCL. :P

Making a new body != regenerating your current body entirely through will.

Anyway, I think that if we can show that adam or lilith are made of PWM

They still have shape without souls. They're PWM.

However, being seeds of life, they may be made of something entirely different

On what reasoning? They're still basically Angels. What properties would this third matter have that PWM doesn't cover?

EDIT: That eva01 was able to absorb PWM in ep19, and Rei was able to absorb LCL in EoE may also be of some importance here...

EVA01 is made of PWM, sir, and Rei pretty much invented LCL.

Btw, no soul does not mean no shape. It also doesn't mean no soul must be PWM. Besides, we also only see tanging when a soul is present immediately prior to tanging.

Um, wrong. It's factually stated that without AT Fields, humans and other LCL-based life can't hold their shape. The AT Field comes from the soul. Therefore, no soul, no shape. PWM is exempt from this rule, since it's basically hardened light.