Gendo in EoE

[Reichu]

:shock: What the hell was the point of that?

Nothing, really. Except to vent my hatred for this thread.

However, this has been going on for a while now, and Reichu hasn't made up her mind, yet.

What makes you say I haven't made up my mind?

I guess I could just give up on her; just her.

And everyone else who can't see Gendo's elusive smile, either. This debate is silly.

[Dark FireStar]

What are you talking about all debates are silly!

[the_seventh_child]

What are you talking about all debates are silly!

:roll:
i'm sorry to say this but DFS most of your posts are more silly than "debates"...
and i believe that it had been pretty clear that Gendo don't smile that moment..

[Dark FireStar]

I have to add a little sillyness to every thing or else who would??

Gendo smiled and you know it you just dont want to admit you wrong lol.

[the_seventh_child]

Gendo smiled and you know it you just dont want to admit you wrong lol.

well you can't know what i believe or not..i'm sure that Gendo didn't smile-look the screenshots carefully-and why would i be afraid to admit i'm wrong-which i believe in this situation i'm not-?

[DatDude]

What in the name of Anno does this HAVE TO DO WITH THE TOPIC OF THIS THREAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MAGI]

If Gendou smiled, then he was willing to repent, and that makes him more worthy of forgiveness. Relates straight to the topic: Whether I can forgive him.

What makes you say I haven't made up my mind?

As in:

I believe that there can be two ways to see the scene. That either Gendou was smiling, or that his facial expression was made open to interpretation: either smiling or not. Consider both of them and think about it.

I've thought about it more than I should have. All those screencaps for nothing! What a waste.

If you reject them both, then I really can't do any more for you. But I strongly urge others to see to what I have to say, as well.

[Reichu]

If you reject them both, then I really can't do any more for you. But I strongly urge others to see to what I have to say, as well.

I have seen what you have to say, but that doesn't mean I have to believe you.

[MAGI]

I presume you've rejected them both, but I was talking about others, just then.

[Reichu]

I presume you've rejected them both, but I was talking about others, just then.

Not really rejected so much as been put into a state of irritated ambivalence.

[Phaze]

Not to point any fingers, but the level of ignorance expressed on this forum is unbelievable.

Now that the debate has died down into a state of irritated ambivalence, the fact remains that Gendo did not get what he wanted (made entirely obvious particularly when he's screaming for Rei to come back), but that doesn't necessarily mean Yui rejected him, just that he had no control over instrumentality and was complemented just as everyone else was.

Right before reverting to LCL, the rest of the cast were allowed a phantom of who their "true love" is, and for Gendo the same. Moments after sorting himself out through a conversation with Rei, Kaworu, and Yui he is bitten in half by a phantom Unit-01, his "true love" and was complemented just as everyone else was, albeit in a much more guilt-ridden manner.

I'd say your both partially at fault.

[The Eva Monkey]

Not to point any fingers, but the level of ignorance expressed on this forum is unbelievable.

Now that the debate has died down into a state of irritated ambivalence, the fact remains that Gendo did not get what he wanted (made entirely obvious particularly when he's screaming for Rei to come back), but that doesn't necessarily mean Yui rejected him, just that he had no control over instrumentality and was complemented just as everyone else was.

Right before reverting to LCL, the rest of the cast were allowed a phantom of who their "true love" is, and for Gendo the same. Moments after sorting himself out through a conversation with Rei, Kaworu, and Yui he is bitten in half by a phantom Unit-01, his "true love" and was complemented just as everyone else was, albeit in a much more guilt-ridden manner.

I'd say your both partially at fault.

You seem awfully predisposed to take EvaOtaku's pronouncements as the 'final word' on any given issue. Sometimes I wonder if you are EvaOtaku...
In any case, I thought I would throw this into the debate, since MDWigs has a very interesting take on Gendo's fate:
(From this thread on AN [Post #27])

I don't think Gendou was included in Complementation (I think he was the exception to the "all life" rule).

In my opinion his retribution was to be excluded from Complementation.

I think [url=http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~[redacted]/d74e.jpg]This Card[/url] is rather interesting when it comes to considering this issue.

There are three things to note on this card (taken from an old discussion of mine).

First: The picture shows all the main chracters except Gendou.

Second: The movie text is from the scene just before Shinji rejects instrumentality (alibet with a slightly different translation).

------------------------------
(Bochan's translation of 26')

Shinji:
But that's just pretending - a self-intoxicating belief... like a prayer. It can't possibly last forever. Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real.

SCENE: Shinji rejects Human Instrumentality.
-------------------------------

Just before this they talk about a world without AT Fields. Shinji decides it is better to exist in a world where people
are separate and can hurt each other. Right after this Rei and Yui say that anyone can return to physical form if they "can
imagine themselves in their own heart."

Ok so this all just sets the scene. The quote on the card is the last thing Shinji says before he rejects instrumentality and gives "everyone" a chance to come back. I put everyone in " " because of course I don't think that includes Gendou

Finally: The Game Rule. It specifically states that Gendou is to be excluded from this "restoration" which though just a game rule can be seen in the context of this card to be the figurative representation for people returning to physical form. Well at least that is what I think it represents.

Why was Gendou excluded? My take is that he wasn't complemented thus wasn't given a chance to come back.

EvaOtaku and I had a big discussion about it in This Thread a couple of years ago.

If Gendo was complemented, why doesn't he revert to LCL, like everyone else?

[Phaze]

You seem awfully predisposed to take EvaOtaku's pronouncements as the 'final word' on any given issue. Sometimes I wonder if you are EvaOtaku...

Actually, there are numerous points of the series with which I disagree with Brendan on, and I hadn't consciously made any reference to his speculations in this thread, but after checking EvaOtaku, yes, we share the same viewpoint.

Q) What happened to Gendo in the film?

A) Gendo more than likely entered into Human Complement Project just like everyone.

The scene of the film with Gendo being bitten in half by a ghost/demon Eva-01 is too surreal to be reality. Rei is a part of Lilith. Yui is dead and her soul is in Eva-01, Kaworu is dead. Eva-01 is in orbit around the earth. None of those people could actually be there with Gendo. Therefore, they are a figment of Human Complement Project and of Gendo's mind. Either this scene is of Gendo already being Complemented or Gendo's method of reversion to LCL is simply more violent and guilt ridden than others. Either way, Gendo is to be Complemented.

Gendo was reverted to LCL and became part of the whole with everyone else. As the Cardass Masters Card says, "All life was drawn indiscriminately into the world desired by the medium/avatar Shinji." With Shinji's request, "I wish everyone would just die.", the anti AT Field spread from Lilith. It was an "indiscriminate" effect that bound everyone together at Shinji's will. All life was to become one, Gendo included.

Is that not concrete enough?

If Gendo was complemented, why doesn't he revert to LCL, like everyone else?

Because that would ruin the power of the scene. The events that occur in that scene are the same as the events taking place as the rest of the cast is complemented. The anomaly of Unit-01 seems to have thrown everyone off.

[the_seventh_child]

If Gendo was complemented, why doesn't he revert to LCL, like everyone else?

well Asuka didn't turn to LCL too..that means she was not complemented?

[Shin-seiki]

If Gendo was complemented, why doesn't he revert to LCL, like everyone else?

well Asuka didn't turn to LCL too..that means she was not complemented?

Asuka's fate (i.e. just how, exactly, she gets from "I'll kill you! I'll kill you!" to "How disgusting") is one of the more ambiguous issues in EoE... I used to assume that she saw Rei as she died, like we see with Misato and Ritsuko, but now I tend to think that maybe the reason we don't see it happen is because, in fact, it didn't happen. There are some indications that Asuka may have been undergoing hyper-synchronization with EVA-02 as she "died", and thus, perhaps, she entered Instrumentality in a manner analogous to what happened to Shinji in #19 (i.e. turned into a puddle within her entry plug before everyone else)

[the_seventh_child]

alright i'll start a new topic about it because we're getting a little off here...
but you have a point there Shin-Seiki..

[Reichu]

If Gendo was complemented, why doesn't he revert to LCL, like everyone else?

This sounds odd, coming from you. I thought you were the one who slapped me around with the bit that, since Gendo is around for Instrumentality in EoTV, he must be there in EoE, as well.

[Shin-seiki]

If Gendo was complemented, why doesn't he revert to LCL, like everyone else?

This sounds odd, coming from you. I thought you were the one who slapped me around with the bit that, since Gendo is around for Instrumentality in EoTV, he must be there in EoE, as well.

Was that me? I thought that was thewayneiac's big hang-up. I myself tend to find MDWigs' idea, quoted above, fairly convincing (there are just certain deviations between EoTV and EoE that are irreconcilable, and this happens to be one of them, IMO...

[MAGI]

:shock:
I don't recall seeing this thread this active whilst I was discussing things with Reichu. But it seems we're going off topic a bit. Oh, well. :P
I would have thought Gendou was complimented as well, but I don't know.

[Reichu]

:shock:
I don't recall seeing this thread this active whilst I was discussing things with Reichu.

Don't you see, love? I think it's our little tiff that was keeping people away. They were WAITING for me to throw my hands up and say, "Fsck it!"

And, uh... The part that Yui bit off turned into LCL. Or something.

Yeah.

Scott: I could have sworn that you and Wayne were in the same boat on this one... Blah, too many threads and not enough space in my brain.