If Gendo's so smart...

[SoryuUberAlles]

He's willing to seduce several of his colleagues 'for his wife' yet I never hear the words "Shinji, if you want daddy's love, get back in the Eva." Seriously, he could have told Shinji that her soul went into the unit ("Because you disobeyed me"). Although admittedly he hasn't seen Shinji for a decade, I'm still surprised he doesn't realise that Shinji' s looking for the slightest sign of approval, and then use it to his advantage.
Nit pick 2
If Asuka's so smart, why isn't Shinji smarter (In the manga)? Because Shinji was made from the sperm of an elite scientist and the egg of an even eliter scientist, both of them probably smarter than Kyoko and whoever.

[Mr. Tines]

1) The series makes it quite clear that both Naoko, and later Ritsuko, were the seducers.

2) Where Shinji is concerned, he's the one who feels at a disadvantage -- as he makes clear in EoE, he does not believe himself worthy of Shinji's affaction. being as much a hedgehog as his son, but wanting to be a real father, makes Shinji about the only person on the planet whom he can't bring himself to manipulate.

3) The manga characters are caricatures. Manga-Asuka shows no sign of great intellect, being reduced by Rei-fanboy Sadamoto to just a figure of fun.

[Reichu]

If Asuka's so smart, why isn't Shinji smarter (In the manga)? Because Shinji was made from the sperm of an elite scientist and the egg of an even eliter scientist, both of them probably smarter than Kyoko and whoever.

Eh what? Shinji was born from the seed of Gendo (who is a finance nerd and master of cover-ups, not a scientist) and the egg of Yui, a bioengineering geek.

Where Shinji is concerned, he's the one who feels at a disadvantage -- as he makes clear in EoE, he does not believe himself worthy of Shinji's affaction. being as much a hedgehog as his son, but wanting to be a real father, makes Shinji about the only person on the planet whom he can't bring himself to manipulate.

Gendo never manipulates Shinji?

The manga characters are caricatures. Manga-Asuka shows no sign of great intellect, being reduced by Rei-fanboy Sadamoto to just a figure of fun.

It's his version; he can do whatever he wants.

[SoryuUberAlles]

Sorry, Sorry, but...
1) It takes two to horizontal tango
2) Would that stop him manipulating him? I admit I didn't realise this, though.
3) Asuka still has a degree at 14. Of course, it might be a sociology degree... you know what German Universities are like (seriously, they're badly rated internationally). Smart people can be sociopaths, look at Gendo.
And...
Again, just the manga, but the Ikaris are above even Fuyutsuki and Akagi (who's called a genius polymath) in developing groundbreaking new technologies. They have to be pretty smart. And even as a Machiavel and finance nerd, he's capable of using and betraying an organisation that's controlled the world for a while, and the UN, and everyone around him. That's still smart
And he doesn't manipulate him in this possibly very powerful way.
[edited in response, didn't see you post while I was writing]
Again, the second part is mostly an objection to the eugenics suggestion to the manga. I know it doesn't work exactly like that anyway.

[slothen]

3) Asuka still has a degree at 14. Of course, it might be a sociology degree... you know what German Universities are like (seriously, they're badly rated internationally). Smart people can be sociopaths, look at Gendo.

Mathematics I believe. 8) /nod to BobBQ

[SoryuUberAlles]

Genius confirmed, then

[slothen]

I suppose that makes me a genius too?

Sloth = Math Major.

[SoryuUberAlles]

Second genius confirmed. That's the picture, right? IQ 200.

[TriLink]

He's willing to seduce several of his colleagues 'for his wife' yet I never hear the words "Shinji, if you want daddy's love, get back in the Eva." Seriously, he could have told her soul went into the unit ("Because you disobeyed me"). Although admittedly he hasn't seen Shinji for a decade, I'm still surprised he doesn't realise that Shinji' s looking for the slightest sign of approval, and then use it to his advantage.

There was never any need to manipulate him to such a degree.

The only reason Gendo needed Shinji was to pilot the EVA. If this became troublesome, he could always have Rei pilot Sho, with the dummy plug system as a backup, so why even bother?

If Asuka's so smart, why isn't Shinji smarter (In the manga)? Because Shinji was made from the sperm of an elite scientist and the egg of an even eliter scientist, both of them probably smarter than Kyoko and whoever.

Dude...that's soooooooo not how genetics work. Besides, we see next to NOTHING about Kyoko, or Asuka's father for that matter. How do YOU know their dumber than Gendo and Yui?

[SoryuUberAlles]

Again, this is manga primarily..
Kyoko is implied (right?) to work for NERV, earth-shattering new tech, that's how she came to lose her mind, so probably in Akagi-Fuyutsuki league and Donor No. 47693 was a nobel prize-winner, but Gendo and Yui are still implied to be the top two (above Kyoko, then).
And if he doesn't need any pilots, why does he have pilots? but that's another discuss, and Shinji disobeys him a few times when this maybe could be used
And on genetics...
Doesn't IQ have a strong genetic component? I hope I'm not implying that I'm a Nazi (probably should change my user ID).
How humiliating on top of everything I've posted, I spelt 'soryu' wrong.

[Reichu]

Sorry, Sorry, but...
1) It takes two to horizontal tango

RAPE RAPE RAPE RAPE RAPE

But in all seriousness, Gendo did have certain objectives in mind, and he needed reliable, uber-genius people to help him achieve them. He might have considered rejecting the advances of the Akagi women not worth the risk. Naoko, of course, was expendable as far as he was concerned once the MAGI were ready to go. And, once they were very near the end of all things, the Multi-Purpose Uber-Geek Dr. Ritsuko Akagi could be thrown into Seele's Lion Pit if it was to the benefit of his own goals.

But, seriously, both of the women were fools and knew it. Naoko knew that Gendo's heart still belonged to Yui, and she didn't care. Ritsuko, in all likelihood, knew what Gendo was hoping to ultimately achieve ("reunion" with Yui), and she gave all of herself to him unconditionally.

Of course, there's also the possibility that Gendo was using them to placate his own loneliness while Yui was "unavailable" (since they came to him of their own accord and he's a social klutz). What a naughty boy.

Keep manga discussion in the appropriate forum, please.

[SoryuUberAlles]

I like the Ritsuko 'misdirected love for the goal', but the Akagi women's taste in men aside, Gendo is still very, very callous towards them, whatever motivated him, and happy to manipulate them, and, you know, kill them all. Why not Shinji too?
edit add
Though I suppose the larger point raised by you all about his behaviour is that he just can't manipulate individuals emotionally that well, unless they're already crazy, so it's just as likely that he can't see anybody with enough sensitivity to see do such a thing, including Shinji.
I withdraw my objection.
But as for eugenics, it works or it doesn't. As a SPCASI stasi thug, Shinji deserves genius IQ, or no-one does.

[Mr. Tines]

Why not Shinji too?

Let's ask him:

SCENE: Gendo lying on floor in Terminal Dogma

Gendo:
I've been waiting for this moment for so long... To finally be with you again, Yui.
When I'm with Shinji, I only hurt him. So, it's better that I do nothing.

Yui:
So, you were afraid of Shinji.

Gendo:
I don't believe that I can be loved by others... I'm not worthy of love.

Kaworu:
You're just running away. You simply reject the world before you get hurt.

Yui:
Afraid of the shapeless, invisible things between people...

Rei:
You just closed your heart to others.

Gendo:
So, this is my retribution. Forgive me... Shinji.

[SoryuUberAlles]

Unless I've misunderstood, that means he's a psychopath who admits he's manipulated people with the utmost cruelty. Though it also suggests he's not the kind of person who understands feelings enough (except at the end) to see how to do it. I submit (as in 'give up', not that button).

[Reichu]

I like the Ritsuko 'misdirected love for the goal', but the Akagi women's taste in men aside, Gendo is still very, very callous towards them

Any more "callous" than he is to pretty much everybody else?

happy to manipulate them

Gendo? Happy?

and, you know, kill them all.

Naoko took care of herself.

he just can't manipulate individuals emotionally that well, unless they're already crazy

"Crazy" is an AWFULLY loaded term.

unless I've misunderstood, that means he's a psychopath

Hmm...

In current clinical use, psychopathy is most commonly diagnosed using Hare's Psychopathy Checklist-Revised (PCL-R). Hare describes psychopaths as "intraspecies predators who use charm, manipulation, intimidation, and violence to control others and to satisfy their own selfish needs. Lacking in conscience and in feelings for others, they cold-bloodedly take what they want and do as they please, violating social norms and expectations without the slightest sense of guilt or regret."[2] "What is missing, in other words, are the very qualities that allow a human being to live in social harmony."

[SoryuUberAlles]

Any more "callous" than he is to pretty much everybody else?
Including Shinji, so as part of my response to the Senor Tinesposita, whatever his regrets, he'd do it to anyone

Gendo? [i]Happy[/i]?
I think he's enjoying himself. He just slouches to look cool (and he does!)

Naoko took care of herself.
He didn't know she would (but then, he's pretty good at that stuff), and there's the 4 billion odd people he's also willing to kill/transcend, and presumably her included, so he didn't mind planning it.

"Crazy" is an AWFULLY loaded term.
I apologise to all offended by my misuse of serious problems. But you know what I mean.

[quote]unless I've misunderstood, that means he's a psychopath[/quote]
Hmm...

[quote="Leakypedia"]In current clinical use, psychopathy is most commonly diagnosed using Hare's Psychopathy Checklist-Revised (PCL-R). Hare describes psychopaths as "intraspecies predators who use charm, manipulation, intimidation, and violence to control others and to satisfy their own selfish needs. Lacking in conscience and in feelings for others, they cold-bloodedly take what they want and do as they please, violating social norms and expectations [color=red]without the slightest sense of guilt or regret[/color]."[2] "What is missing, in other words, are the very qualities that allow a human being to live in social harmony."[/quote][/quote]
I'll stop describing animetion like I have a medical degree now. Sorry (the apologies are not sarcasm, but they are an exaggeration of a real regret, I've started too many flame wars to be subtle.) But up until 'regret', I haven't posted something really stupid according to that definition.

[Reichu]

To not use quote tags around quotes is confusing.

I think he's enjoying myself. He just slouches to look cool (and he does!)

The "steepled hands" gesture is one used to convey a sense of authority, etc. (Keep a lookout for how it's put to use by other characters in NGE and elsewhere, and sometimes in real life, depending on the context.) Gendo's version also has the benefit of covering most of his face, which allows him to both shield emotion and save money.

[Ornette]

He did smirk under those steeples (which he did back in 2003, and he was smiling) a few times. But if you look in 21', he was a much happier man when Yui was around, at least he displayed a wider range of emotion, even if it was a little. The only other time I remember him smiling during the series that wasn't a flashback, was at Rei. If anything, it seems like in 2015 he isn't happy to be manipulating people, more that he HAD to manipulate people and was satisfied with the results.

[BLACKANGEL32076]

The easy answer is that the both of them are so full of each other and their abilities that they don't see anything other than their own goals.

Never underestimate the human element.

[SoryuUberAlles]

[quote="Ornette"] and was satisfied with the results.[/quote]

Very, very satisfied. You'd be pretty satisfied with yourself, even after Ritsuko said you were a terrible lover. I have seen that episode.
edit response to black angel
An that means he'd do anything, right? even to his son? Or does it mean he can't feel people well enough to notice that? That pretty much ends my defence of my 'creul gendo thesis', since that holes it below the water line. I just always thought of him as having enough E(motional)Q(uotient) to do that, but now I'm told it's implied his IQ isn't genius-level either, so I pretty much have to give in.

I see everyone else is bored with the 'Japanese Manga endorses eugenics' line of mine already. I do know it's not in the anime, so I guess I have to give up. Also, to anyone who has the power, feel free to move this to the manga thread, sorry for starting it in the wrong place.