So does Shinji like Asuka?

[master0rolando]

then whyd he choke her

[AuthenticM]

then whyd he choke her

Because he wanted to feel the presence of somebody else.

[the_seventh_child]

then whyd he choke her

Because he wanted to feel the presence of somebody else.

Um, he could just touch her...
I mean, if you wanna feel the precense of somebody else you don't usually choke him or something like that!
But this is Eva.. so yeah, anything but ordinary!

[Legend of the Past]

then whyd he choke her

Because he wanted to feel the presence of somebody else.

Um, he could just touch her...
I mean, if you wanna feel the precense of somebody else you don't usually choke him or something like that!
But this is Eva.. so yeah, anything but ordinary!

After seeing all Shinji saw, I think he realized things are above face value. It's not just touching, he needed to reaffirm that whis was really Asuka, and not some random clone.

[tinmeigut]

Yea, but feeling this girl touching my face softly in return would make me think she's not Asuka.

[the_seventh_child]

Yea, but feeling this girl touching my face softly in return would make me think she's not Asuka.

Ha yeah! To live is to change right?

[Reichu]

Yea, but feeling this girl touching my face softly in return would make me think she's not Asuka.

Feeling the weight of her eye looking down coldly at me and hearing her mutter "YOU MAKE ME SICK" would erase all doubts.

[Faußtin]

Yea, but feeling this girl touching my face softly in return would make me think she's not Asuka.

Feeling the weight of her eye looking down coldly at me and hearing her mutter "YOU MAKE ME SICK" would erase all doubts.

Yes, that is indeed just like Asuka. Though if I would want to know if she is really there and is really Asuka, I would wait until she wakes up, looks at me and speaks. People's eyes and voice are veeery talkative, especially in the state Asuka is.
But strangling is very like Shinji... raw and mindless (or rather not thought over). :P

[Legend of the Past]

Yea, but feeling this girl touching my face softly in return would make me think she's not Asuka.

Feeling the weight of her eye looking down coldly at me and hearing her mutter "YOU MAKE ME SICK" would erase all doubts.

Yes, that is indeed just like Asuka. Though if I would want to know if she is really there and is really Asuka, I would wait until she wakes up, looks at me and speaks. People's eyes and voice are veeery talkative, especially in the state Asuka is.
But strangling is very like Shinji... raw and mindless (or rather not thought over). :P

I really dislike this view you have of Shinji. He's fairly smart- he really is one of the most perceptive people in the series. Sure, he has the mental balance of a fifty-year-old car, but he's the only NORMAL EVA pilot to realize who's inside his EVA. Kyoko had to directly speak to Asuka. Plus, Shinji had some very well founded suspisions about Rei, the nature of EVA and the choosing of EVA pilots, i.e., all of his class being potential pilots.

I don't really mind you ditching him, but at least insult him for what he IS and give him credit where credit is earned.

[Mr. Tines]

Shinji starts EoE descending into depressive fugue, and is clearly on the point of letting slip his fingernail grasp on sanity when complemented. He then goes through an acrimonious break-up with Asuka, before spending days (weeks?) alone on a beach, setting up a memorial to the human race.

I think there's something to be said for the idea that by that stage he's a few sandwiches short of a picnic. Then whether it's a case of cold rage "You bitch, you know how long I've been here all by myself!" or befuddled "She said she'd rather die than be with me, didn't she?" really makes little difference.

Did he like her before that? distant lust and social terror mixed, probably.

[master0rolando]

break up with her???...so are you saying that scene really happened...i thought it was meant to be an example of what he was afraid of...

[BobBQ]

What matters is that it seemed real to him, and it didn't help his state of mind.

[Mr. Tines]

break up with her???...so are you saying that scene really happened...

I take what we see in Complementation to be the (somewhat metaphorically expressed) interactions of all the minds that have been jammed together.

[Karen_Leslie]

But didn't Shinji stop Complementation before it was completed? I thought that what we mainly see in EOE is what's going on in Shinji's head as his frazzled brain tries to make sense of the transition that he's on the verge of making; I think that transition would have had to already happened for him to have a "real" dialogue with Asuka.

I do think some scenes, like those with Rei and Kaworu are meant to be taken literally (well, as literally as can be when you're talking about EOE, for godsakes!), but it just seems to me that in most of the scenes he's interacting with "The Asuka in your Mind", just like he does in the TV ending.

[Mr. Tines]

The key scene for figuring out what's going on in Complementation is

Shinji (staring at Misato's cross):
Mama...?

Misato (voice):
I wasn't able to become Shinji's mother after all...

(Kaji's and Misato's college apartment)

Misato:
Mmmm, let's do it.

Kaji:
Again? Aren't you supposed to meet your friend at school today?

Misato:
Hmm? Oh yeah, Ritsuko. It's okay, we still have time...

Kaji:
We've been cooped up here for a week now...

Misato:
Yeah, but I think I'm getting the hang of it... so come on...

(The lovemaking begins and continues in the background)

Misato:
I probably just did this to prove that I existed.
(Lit: "to confirm that I was here")

Asuka:
How idiotic! It's just two lonely adults comforting each other.

Ritsuko (precisely):
We want to feel needed, even if it's only physical.

Misato:
I feel wanted, and that makes me happy.

Asuka:
It's just an easy way for you feel that you're worth something.

Shinji (disgusted = thinking):
This is Misato? She does... this?

At the very least, Misato's memories must be leaking into Shinji's consciousness - it is unlikely to just be his mental model of her, because we know this refers to an event in her past (Ritsuko's disgusted commentary in episode 21). I take everything from

Asuka:
Jeeez! I get so pissed off whenever I look at you!

to

Asuka (voice):
But, if I have to be with you, I'd rather die!

and into the live action to be minds jammed together in disharmony, and the real characters interacting. The barriers are down, and thoughts are leaking; just one step short of all merged into one.

BTW - welcome aboard!

[Reichu]

but it just seems to me that in most of the scenes he's interacting with "The Asuka in your Mind", just like he does in the TV ending.

In EoTV, after Instrumentality is said to have started, we get stuff like this

(A) before Misato's case:

Shinji:
This is the me that exists in your mind, Misato.

Misato:
And at the same time, the me that exists in your mind, right?

(B) before Asuka's case

Asuka:
Where am I?

Shinji:
This is the me that exists in your mind, Asuka.

Asuka:
Which means, it's also the me that exists in your mind, right?

They also tell us the nature of Instrumentality in EoTV, which seems pretty much the same as in EoE...

TEXT:
That was the beginning of the instrumentality of people
What people are lacking
The loss in their hearts
In order to fill that void in their hearts
The instrumentality of hearts and souls begins
Returning all things to nothingness
The instrumentality of people had begun

IKARI:
No, it is not that we are returning to nothingness.
We are only restoring everything to its original state.
We are only returning to our mother, who has been lost to this world.
All souls will become one and find eternal peace.
That is all there is to it.

Misato:
And that's the Instrumentality Project?

RITSUKO:
That's right.
There is always a void, a part that has been lost in our hearts.

TEXT:
That is what gives rise to the hunger in our hearts
This is what gives rise to fear and insecurity

RITSUKO:
Every single person fears that darkness in their heart
and lives life trying to escape from it, to banish it.
Even though it will never disappear as long as we remain human.

Misato:
That's why you're going to bundle all human souls together,
so we can compensate for the void in each other?!
And you're just going to do this to everyone?!

Hence, in Instrumentality, the Asuka and Misato that exist in Shinji's mind are by definition the actual Asuka and Misato.

[Karen_Leslie]

Hmm, okay, I understand that the people in Shinji's mind must be "real" during Complementation, I was just under the impression that we don't get quite to that level in EOE before the whole shebang gets called off. But the fact that Shinji witnesses things from Misato's past that we're pretty sure he doesn't himself know makes it pretty clear that some mind-melding had already gone on. Plus, there's the fact that the choice is in Shinji's hands about whether or not to re-establish the AT fields, meaning that they must have been gone for at least some interval of time.

Thanks for the detailed clarification guys, i probably had a better grasp on this in the past but it's been a while since I watched EOE in it's entirety...heh, I know what I'm doing for part of this weekend...

*runs off to chill with GNR*

[MaggotMaster]

Excuse my n00bness but what the hell does GNR stand for? I know it reffers to HUEG WHITE REI-LILITH-WHATEVER thing, but what does it stand for?

[Karen_Leslie]

Giant Naked Rei :).

[MaggotMaster]

Giant Naked Rei :).

Damn, I should have thought of that, I was looking for answers in Japanese kinda like with the Longinus no Yari abbreviation.

Thanks nonetheless.