Of Yui, 3I, and Other Tangents
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- Eva Yojimbo
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Here's an idea guys:
It's quite obvious from Yui's talk with Fuyutsuki that 3I was something that was inevitable. So all they had any control over was how it came about, and what happened after. What better way for a mother to help her son out then give him the choice of what world he wants to live in? The questions of "why did she let the Harpies take her?" Well, let's suppose she knew that Gendo was going to do the whole Adam/Lilith trick. I think it's very likely that the Adam/Lilith fusion would've caused 3I whether it had already been started by Seele or not.
So, whether Seele initiated it, the Angels initiated it, or Gendo initiated it, 3I WAS GOING TO HAPPEN. Yui decided that she would take Shinji to the Harpies, and let them do their Tree of Life thingy on him, and then let Rei/Lilith come to him, as its essentially her that gives him the choice anyway. But without Yui, Shinji wouldn't have been there to begin with, and someone else would've decided what happened post 3I.
Does this sound rational enough? The only thing I'm unsure of is why 3I was so inevitable. Assuming mankind needed the Evas to defend against the Angels or the Angels would've started it, then why was 3I inevitable once the Angels were defeated? Simply because Seele were set on the Instrumentality project and no 3I - no Instrumentality? Sounds reasonable as well...
It's quite obvious from Yui's talk with Fuyutsuki that 3I was something that was inevitable. So all they had any control over was how it came about, and what happened after. What better way for a mother to help her son out then give him the choice of what world he wants to live in? The questions of "why did she let the Harpies take her?" Well, let's suppose she knew that Gendo was going to do the whole Adam/Lilith trick. I think it's very likely that the Adam/Lilith fusion would've caused 3I whether it had already been started by Seele or not.
So, whether Seele initiated it, the Angels initiated it, or Gendo initiated it, 3I WAS GOING TO HAPPEN. Yui decided that she would take Shinji to the Harpies, and let them do their Tree of Life thingy on him, and then let Rei/Lilith come to him, as its essentially her that gives him the choice anyway. But without Yui, Shinji wouldn't have been there to begin with, and someone else would've decided what happened post 3I.
Does this sound rational enough? The only thing I'm unsure of is why 3I was so inevitable. Assuming mankind needed the Evas to defend against the Angels or the Angels would've started it, then why was 3I inevitable once the Angels were defeated? Simply because Seele were set on the Instrumentality project and no 3I - no Instrumentality? Sounds reasonable as well...
- Fearthebait
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I dont think 3I was inevitable but rather highly improbable for it to not happen. To assume that it was unavoidable is to also assume that Shinji coming to tokyo - 3 was unavoidable and that he would end up there no matter what.
I doubt that anything other then Shinji's own choice (which he probably did not understand) led him to Tokyo - 3 and the following events. Although fate does play a role in Evangelion I find that all of the events in the show can be traced to a choice made by someone. Wether by Keel or the no named Kaji killer, all choices were thought over then made for themselves, but ultimately led to humanities downfall.
I doubt that anything other then Shinji's own choice (which he probably did not understand) led him to Tokyo - 3 and the following events. Although fate does play a role in Evangelion I find that all of the events in the show can be traced to a choice made by someone. Wether by Keel or the no named Kaji killer, all choices were thought over then made for themselves, but ultimately led to humanities downfall.
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- Opteron-O3
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Fearthebait wrote:I dont think 3I was inevitable but rather highly improbable for it to not happen. To assume that it was unavoidable is to also assume that Shinji coming to tokyo - 3 was unavoidable and that he would end up there no matter what.
I doubt that anything other then Shinji's own choice (which he probably did not understand) led him to Tokyo - 3 and the following events. Although fate does play a role in Evangelion I find that all of the events in the show can be traced to a choice made by someone. Wether by Keel or the no named Kaji killer, all choices were thought over then made for themselves, but ultimately led to humanities downfall.
"The fate of destruction is also the joy of rebirth."
Last edited by Opteron-O3 on Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Fearthebait
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- Opteron-O3
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Fearthebait wrote:"The fate of destruction is also the joy of rebirth."
Coming from the mouth of someone who would stop at nothing to initiate 3I.
Explain. :?
Btw, that quote on EoE gives me goosebumps just reading it lol! I felt like it went well with what you said
Jobhug wrote:I'm probably way off, but I thought Shinji was in control of Unit 01 for the start of the whole floaty take stigmata phase and thats why SEELE were chanting about breaking his ego, so he would co-operate.
Well he was in control of his Eva when he got in, but once he saw what was going on his Ego got out of control and thus probably lost synchronization with Eva. But remember, Yui can probably control the Eva on her own as well. She knew 3I would happen so she just went with the flow and made Shinji make the ultimate decision.
Last edited by Opteron-O3 on Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Reichu
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Opteron-O3 wrote:Well he was in control of his Eva when he got in
I doubt Shinji...
- Made a giant optically-projected cross-shaped blast that "spread" into Wings of Light
- Levitated out of the Cage to the open Geofront
- Broke out of the pylons and reformed the two wings into four
- Etc.
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「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
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「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
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- Opteron-O3
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Reichu wrote:Levitated out of the Cage to the open Geofront
I was actually refering to this instance, and lost all other control when he saw Asuka's remains. But all the others were under Yui's control/MPEvas/3I. "destined"
Last edited by Opteron-O3 on Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Fearthebait
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In my opinion Yui was wanting to reunite with Gendo while protecting her son. I back that up with her quote about wanting to get married and raise a family. With that point i also claim that all of her Eva berserker moments were by choice, not fate.
Last edited by Fearthebait on Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- Reichu
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Opteron-O3 wrote:Reichu wrote:Levitated out of the Cage to the open Geofront
I was actually refering to this instance, and lost all other control when he saw Asuka's remains. But all the others were under Yui's control/MPEvas/3I. "destined"
Simpler explanation: Shinji climbed in, and Yui did the rest.
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「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
Departure Message | The Arqa Apocrypha: An Evangelion Analysis Blog
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
Departure Message | The Arqa Apocrypha: An Evangelion Analysis Blog
- Opteron-O3
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Fearthebait wrote:In my opinion Yui was wanting to reunite with Gendo while protecting her son. I back that up with her quote about wanting to get married and raise a family. With that point i also claim that all of her Eva berserker moments were by choice, not fate.
But she didn't expect Gendo to change plans did she?
Last edited by Opteron-O3 on Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Reichu
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Fearthebait wrote:In my opinion Yui was wanting to reunite with Gendo while protecting her son. I back that up with her quote about wanting to get married and raise a family.
Well, Shinji's stuck on Earth, no getting around that. Maybe Yui can tuck Gendo's soul into her Guf, float over to a promising-looking planet, and then...
With that point i also claim that all of her Eva berserker moments were by choice, not fate.
"Are you saying that somebody willed this thing to go batshit crazy?"
"Yes, the Eva did."
さらば、全てのEvaGeeks。
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
Departure Message | The Arqa Apocrypha: An Evangelion Analysis Blog
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
Departure Message | The Arqa Apocrypha: An Evangelion Analysis Blog
- Opteron-O3
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Reichu wrote:Fearthebait wrote:In my opinion Yui was wanting to reunite with Gendo while protecting her son. I back that up with her quote about wanting to get married and raise a family.
Well, Shinji's stuck on Earth, no getting around that. Maybe Yui can tuck Gendo's soul into her Guf, float over to a promising-looking planet, and then...With that point i also claim that all of her Eva berserker moments were by choice, not fate.
"Are you saying that somebody willed this thing to go batshit crazy?"
"Yes, the Eva did."
Was berserker mode actually the pilots anger over powering the Eva psychologically or was it the Eva itself?
(You're probably thinking I'm a noob, but I'm serious about this one, I've been meaning to post a thread about it, but just haven't had the guts to do it :oops: )
Last edited by Opteron-O3 on Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Reichu
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Berserker = Eva controlling herself.
"Overpowering the Eva psychologically"? Sounds like pilotting to me.
"Overpowering the Eva psychologically"? Sounds like pilotting to me.
Last edited by Reichu on Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
さらば、全てのEvaGeeks。
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
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- Opteron-O3
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Reichu wrote:Berserker = Eva controlling herself.
Thanks <3
Last edited by Opteron-O3 on Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- ObsessiveMathsFreak
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I think Shinji's input into the events here needs to be looked at more closely. The Eva's resonant screaming and breathing suggests a large degree of pilot influence over its actions here. A simple dismissal of Shinji's input here does not make sense.
Opteron-O3's suggestion about psychological overpowering, or perhaps overloading, the Evangelions is very interesting. I think it's quite reasonable to suggest that Shinji's emotions are having an influence on the actions of Unit-01. Think of it as his emotions given more spectacular representations on screen. A boy screaming is all very well, but having the giant humanoid he pilots muscle off its bindings and sprout massive wings of light gives the moment a little more... presence.
Opteron-O3's suggestion about psychological overpowering, or perhaps overloading, the Evangelions is very interesting. I think it's quite reasonable to suggest that Shinji's emotions are having an influence on the actions of Unit-01. Think of it as his emotions given more spectacular representations on screen. A boy screaming is all very well, but having the giant humanoid he pilots muscle off its bindings and sprout massive wings of light gives the moment a little more... presence.
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May The Maths Be With You.
May The Maths Be With You.
- Reichu
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I vaguely recall having this sort of discussion with you with regard to the episode #02 incident. (In fact, I smelled your post coming a Moon's-orbit away.)
You make it sound like Evas aren't capable of "representing their own interests" in any way, shape, or form. Yui-sama does not approve, you know.
You make it sound like Evas aren't capable of "representing their own interests" in any way, shape, or form. Yui-sama does not approve, you know.
Last edited by Reichu on Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
さらば、全てのEvaGeeks。
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
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「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
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- Anonymous_Evafan
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If Shinji's input makes a difference, then why does the "MOVE DAMMIT" freakout have ZERO affect? You can't pick and choose, OMF.
Oh, but God forbid any of these theories have any validity! After all, we are just brainwashing innocent people with Reichu's fanclub propaganda!--Trigger's Elysium sarcasm for the masses!
- Opteron-O3
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ObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:Opteron-O3's suggestion about psychological overpowering, or perhaps overloading, the Evangelions is very interesting. I think it's quite reasonable to suggest that Shinji's emotions are having an influence on the actions of Unit-01. Think of it as his emotions given more spectacular representations on screen. A boy screaming is all very well, but having the giant humanoid he pilots muscle off its bindings and sprout massive wings of light gives the moment a little more... presence.
Interesting. Losing control over the Eva could be due also to his Ego. His ego was so messed up synchonization could have been lost.
Anonymous_Evafan wrote:If Shinji's input makes a difference, then why does the "MOVE DAMMIT" freakout have ZERO affect? You can't pick and choose, OMF.
This is what proved me wrong... but then that's why I said his psychological overload could be due to his loss of control over the Eva and thus Yui-sama taking over. 3I was going to happen either way, under Yui.
(I may sound contradicting, but I'm just trying to get different thoughts out.)
Last edited by Opteron-O3 on Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Anonymous_Evafan
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But there were things before that indicating he had zero control to begin with, Reichu has already listed them.
Oh, but God forbid any of these theories have any validity! After all, we are just brainwashing innocent people with Reichu's fanclub propaganda!--Trigger's Elysium sarcasm for the masses!
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