Is no one bothered by the sexualization of the characters in EVA?

[Gendo'sPapa]

The sexualization is one of those things I'm not a fan of myself but I've always felt the show & movies under Hideaki Anno's watch (aside from one moment) has been pretty well done. Pretty much anytime the characters, sadly almost entirely the female pilots, have been sexualized it's always been in relation to how it affects Shinji. When the camera ogles Asuka or Rei it's almost always directed by Shinji's state in the moment. I felt the shows and movies handled it well.

The merchandise and spinoffs though.... ooof. Look, I'm a very comfortable bi-guy who has been around the block a few times... and a few times more... and invited the whole block into my bed (not lately though, thank you Covid you fucker) but some of the figures I've seen of Rei and Asuka creep me out and make me ashamed to say "Yeah, Eva is my thing".


- The one moment of sexualization in the TV & movies that doesn't work and I absolutely hate is Asuka turning over in bed in 2.0 and the camera is full on looking up the sheets at her crotch. The fuck is up with that? It's not motivated by character, emotion, or narrative and is just a "Yep, that's Asuka's perineum". I've long argued that Anno has had a grand vision for the four films and 2.0 intentionally leaned into some of the fan-servicey elements of Eva - Rei & Asuka combating over Shinji's affection, more blatant sexual fan service, Shinji "manning up" at the end to save Rei - as a way to misdirect viewers and hit them with the refusal of all that in 3.0 buuuuut that one shot is one place where I felt the film went too far and might be the lowpoint of the series for me.

Scary thing is I'm sure for someone out there that shot is their favorite moment in all of Eva.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

The merchandise and spinoffs though.... ooof. Look, I'm a very comfortable bi-guy who has been around the block a few times... and a few times more... and invited the whole block into my bed (not lately though, thank you Covid you fucker) but some of the figures I've seen of Rei and Asuka creep me out and make me ashamed to say "Yeah, Eva is my thing".

Yeah, 90% of the time I'm buying Eva figurines at anime conventions is made up of me going "Nope! I wouldn't be caught dead with that," 8% "Another tired plug suit design," and 2% is "Ooh! Q Asuka with her hat and jacket! "

I think the sexualization in Eva is better realized when the audience admits that it's presented as a peer-to-peer discussion with teens; a movie about teenagers made for teenagers. (Anno's notes included in both the Japanese and the Funimation releases of Eva 1.xx mention this, at least.) Teens are sexually aware, intrigued, and/or active, and Anno isn't blind to that. I think he's using the sexual interests of teenagers to help them find meaning in/beyond their sexual interests. The fact that Eva is created and also viewed by adults muddies the waters a bit, but I truly think Anno is trying to level with the adolescence in his audience with Evangelion. (Unlike his more adult Shiki Jitsu endeavor, in which Hideaki Anno and Ayako Fujitani occasionally use the topic of sex as a framing device for being honest to adult audiences about their depression.) That's not to say everything in Eva magically works through that lens, though. The crotch shot in 2.22 is still awkward, but through the lens of Anno trying to level with the teens, it becomes less "Adults ogle little girl," and more "How do you do, fellow kids?" (Though both are probably intermingled to some degree here.) For me, at least, it kinda misses the mark of whatever Anno was trying to do with the films.

[kuribo-04]

The only scene probably in the entirety of NGE that "creeps me out" in this regard is at the beginning of Magmadiver, Kaji and Asuka shopping for swimsuits.
And that's becuase it intentionally tries to be uncomfortable.

[glitz2hard]

- The one moment of sexualization in the TV & movies that doesn't work and I absolutely hate is Asuka turning over in bed in 2.0 and the camera is full on looking up the sheets at her crotch. The fuck is up with that? It's not motivated by character, emotion, or narrative and is just a "Yep, that's Asuka's perineum".

i don't remember that, but that sounds horrible.

The crotch shot in 2.22 is still awkward, but through the lens of Anno trying to level with the teens, it becomes less "Adults ogle little girl," and more "How do you do, fellow kids?" (Though both are probably intermingled to some degree here.)

i have to disagree. if that's how anno sees his teen audience, as someone to fulfill sexually, that's not a great way to approach this supposed straight-to-teen styling of this movie, if that was what they were doing. i feel like NTE has a strong sense of pedo-appeal, seeing with the "curse of eva" (which is STRAIGHT out of a loli hentai) and weird, unnecessary, unexplained shots; Rei changing is completely ridiculous, gross, and uncomfortable (the least they could have done is not drawn her nipples like they did in NGE), and Asuka's supposed crotch shot sounds screwed up. but even if i don't remember that shot, the outfit they chose for her to sleep in is yes, a fitting outfit for a girl to sleep in, but it's also an excuse to draw an attractive teen girl in her panties.

[Zusuchan]

When it comes to the Rebuilds's sexualization, I'd say 1.11 is more...complicated, but 2.22 is basically what Gendo's Papa said and even more-it's my belief that the entirety of NTE is a meta discussion/reflection/etc. of NGE/EoE and the impact they had, and with that logic, 2.22 becomes the part of the series that is all about the way that most people would like for Eva to be. None of the Angel fights have any overlasting consequences, there's cartoonish action that goes over the top even in terms of some of the Action Arc stuff, there's pointless fan-service, every character is dozens of times better psychologically, Asuka is less abusive, Rei is more sociable (and more openly into Shinji!) etc., Mari is an entirely new character who acts like she's from one of those shitty generic mecha shows that are all about escapism and does literally nothing throughout the whole movie but present herself ultra-sexually, is obsessed with getting into the Evas and fights like insanity itself. I think from this viewpoint a lot of 2.22, even the more disgusting things (yes, panty shot, we're talking about you here) make a lot more sense. (And certainly more than Anno attempting to reach the same level as teenagers by sexualizing them. Even if that was his intention, which I sincerely doubt because basically everything I said above, the idea itself would already be very stupid and not act as an excuse in the slightest.)

Re: 1.11-The majority of the sexualization of 1.11 that wasn't in the original show seems to originate from Rei and I think that's there to subconsciously make us more inclined for a deeper connection between Shinji and Rei, which is also a huge part of the Rebuilds. And maybe it's also a sly red herring to make us more inclined for 2.22 and quicker to believe it's all just some commercialized version which of course means that 3.33 hits all the harder, regardless of whether you loved the idea of a more generic, commercialized Eva or not.

Edit: added an ''openly''.

[MuscleRobo]

Yeah, that’s probably it.

This must be what Anno was concerned about when some fans have fallen into a state of degeneracy. Hence that hospital scene in EOE.

That was obviously a downside of just about every fan base.

There are both official and fan body pillows. I got a doujin one at Comiket for Asuka. The official ones are only "ok" in my opinion. I do have an official one of Akane from Gridman though. Those are my only two though! For now at least

[Derantor]

I'm with FreakyFilmFan here; teens as viewed through a teenage lens. And regarding the panty shot: none of you must ever have been to a public pool or the beach - but I guess skimpy bikinis are something entirely different than striped knickers? I had to look at the scene again to even notice it, as I completely forgot about it.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

i have to disagree. if that's how anno sees his teen audience, as someone to fulfill sexually, that's not a great way to approach this supposed straight-to-teen styling of this movie, if that was what they were doing.

I didn’t say anything about sexual fulfillment. Yikes, dude, that would be creepy.

Anno (whispering in ear): I’m the only one who can sexually fulfill you.

Shinji: SOMEBODY HELP! GOD, I NEED AN ADULT! HEEEEEELLLLLLPPP!!!! HEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLPPP!!!!!!!!

[A Renegade Deserter]

The characters of Eva being sexualized too much? Eva always confronted fandoms and audiences to sexualize anime characters themselves and that the characters themselves don‘t end up without punishment for their disregard towards valuing true affection.

Now that 2015 is long over and Asuka and Shinji are born in 2001, they‘re over 18 now and they wouldn‘t look much different than with being 14 (regardlees of Curse of Eva in Rebuild).

I wouldn‘t risk to have anything with a underage Girl. If I can imagine her as a young grown up, then it’s fine and I would still care more for her being fine than to just bang her.

For someone like Asuka I would feel like that and I would passionately want her like eating Amarena Cherry Ice.

[glitz2hard]

I wouldn‘t risk to have anything with a underage Girl. If I can imagine her as a young grown up, then it’s fine and I would still care more for her being fine than to just bang her.

For someone like Asuka I would feel like that and I would passionately want her like eating Amarena Cherry Ice.

your point of view is horny, and biased. while yes, the underage girl thing is true, sexualization still happens (at least to an extent).

[Blockio]

your point of view is horny, and biased.

I have nothing of value to add to your argument, I just want say that this right there is way on point for not just that post, but for pretty much the entire thread lately. it's also a funny as hell sentence

[silvermoonlight]

- The one moment of sexualization in the TV & movies that doesn't work and I absolutely hate is Asuka turning over in bed in 2.0 and the camera is full on looking up the sheets at her crotch. The fuck is up with that? It's not motivated by character, emotion, or narrative and is just a "Yep, that's Asuka's perineum"

Oh god, I had forgotten about that moment, but I have to agree it is a low point in 2.22 because unlike the thermal expansion joke in episode 10 where Asuka's cupping her breasts and looks over at Shinji's keyboard which is tied to something in the story this scene is out of know where does nothing to compliment the story its just comes over like the animators were just being open perverts and forgetting that their product was going worldwide and not everyone would look on their antics the same way the Japan's audience does.

[glitz2hard]

Oh god, I had forgotten about that moment, but I have to agree it is a low point in 2.22 because unlike the thermal expansion joke in episode 10 where Asuka's cupping her breasts and looks over at Shinji's keyboard which is tied to something in the story this scene is out of know where does nothing to compliment the story its just comes over like the animators were just being open perverts and forgetting that their product was going worldwide and not everyone would look on their antics the same way the Japan's audience does.

actually, i have to hard disagree. if you really think about Asuka's introduction in nge and early arc, excluding ONE SCENE (creepy tape rewind kiss scene) the sexualization is pointless fanservice. a great example would indeed be the thermal expansion joke: they already have enough to drive these two points home (that Shinji is nervous around girls, and, ya know, breasts, and that thermal expansion is the theme of this episode) and the camera angles especially are really gross and weird. we learned nothing, except maybe that Asuka likes flaunting her body, especially to Kaji... but wait, we learned that at the beginning of this episode!
admit it, at that point in the show it becomes a weird, pretty generic shonen. still fun to watch minus that stuff tho, big robot fite cool

[Zusuchan]

glitz2hard: Asuka flaunting her breasts is a hint that she actually wants Shinji to notice her and that this noticing might involve a sexual nature and that she doesn't merely think he's a stupid idiot. The majority of the fanservice in NGE, including Asuka's sexualization, has meaning and isn't there just for people to leer at and salivate. And Eva becoming a weird, generic shonen? Even at its most blatantly generic (Action Arc), NGE is still far better and deeper than the standard anime and never becomes shallow.

silvermoonlight: I think that the fanservice of 2.22 is meant to have no actual meaning at all. It's all a part of the increasingly meta message of the Rebuilds.

[silvermoonlight]

glitz2hard: Asuka flaunting her breasts is a hint that she actually wants Shinji to notice her and that this noticing might involve a sexual nature and that she doesn't merely think he's a stupid idiot.

Yeah that's what I thought it meant she liked Shinji, and she very much enjoys showing off her body and using it as a tool to impress others and her internal mental problems becomes clear later on as she wants to grow up and no longer be a child or be viewed as one hence she is copying very sexual actions done by adults, in the hope to be an adult.

I think that the fanservice of 2.22 is meant to have no actual meaning at all. It's all a part of the increasingly meta message of the Rebuilds.

It pains me to say that is very true and the character that projects that most is Mari and it saddens me to say that as I loved her in the manga and I wish we could have gotten that version in the rebuilds. As every fanfiction writer I've spoken to has complained that they have had to fill Mari out in some way or form because there is just nothing there but fan service and it's clear that the characters there to shift merchandise and three movies in we still know nothing about her of real value.

[Zusuchan]

silvermoonlight:

Yeah that's what I thought it meant she liked Shinji, and she very much enjoys showing off her body and using it as a tool to impress others and her internal mental problems becomes clear later on as she wants to grow up and no longer be a child or be viewed as one hence she is copying very sexual actions done by adults, in the hope to be an adult.

1) Ditto
2) Well said

Re: Mari, there's still some hope for character development in Shin. Anything like an actual character beyond what we saw in 2.22 would take away from the essence of that film and NTE in general and in 3.0, there was just no time for it-that film is basically Shinji feeling alienated from everything and everyone except from Kaworu. Hopefully we'll get some Asuka-in-22 or Gendo-in-EoE moment that reveals more about her character. It would be kind of strange for Anno to not go the full way in his denunciation of 2.22-like easy-going escapism stories and giving Mari some backstory/characterization beyond what we've seen so far works in favor of that. (And if Reichu's idea of who she really is is correct (and this is rather likely), we could be in for some major psychological problems and character reevaluation.)

[silvermoonlight]

(And if Reichu's idea of who she really is is correct (and this is rather likely), we could be in for some major psychological problems and character reevaluation.)

My I ask what Reichu idea is? As I have not read it. The one I've heard is she in fact the manga version just hiding the fact that she's still pissed at Gendo over Yui (Since she loved her in the manga but got denied) and wants to kill him and get her back the same way he does.

[Arcadia's legacy]

Here ya go

[silvermoonlight]

Here ya go

Thank you

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

actually, i have to hard disagree. if you really think about Asuka's introduction in nge and early arc, excluding ONE SCENE

Don't you think the scenes have greater meaning when placed in context with one another?