Kimochi Warui

YouTube · Postby **Reichu** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 4:12 am

master0rolando wrote:most women decide if you a potential boyfriend or a just friend within 30 seconds of meeting you

Is this based on your original empirical research?

master0rolando · Postby **master0rolando** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 4:35 am

EDIT:...bleh :( ...dumb pst...shouldnt have made it...bad reputation...bleh... :(

Anonymous_Evafan · Postby **Anonymous_Evafan** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:08 pm

What exactly does your seemingly sexist view on women have to do with the topic at hand?

MaggotMaster · Postby **MaggotMaster** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:10 pm

lol, misogynistic idiocy

I HAET WIMMENZ BECAUSE THEY REJECTS ME

lol internet

Anonymous_Evafan · Postby **Anonymous_Evafan** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:22 pm

MaggotMaster wrote:lol, misogynistic idiocy

I HAET WIMMENZ BECAUSE THEY REJECTS ME

lol internet

Sorry Reichu I had to borrow this:

Postby **Sailor Star Dust** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 5:27 am

No idea what's currently being talked about, but to get back to the original topic...
Does this interpretation/translation work in terms of WHY Asuka said "kimochi warui."?? (The part in bold is done by me.)

[url]http://www.evaotaku.com/html/evafaq.html[/url] wrote:Q) Why does Shinji strangle Asuka in the final scene of The End of Evangelion, 'I need you.' ?

A) The sequance is one of the most hotly debated in Eva circles all over the world. Until now there was no definitive answer to the mystery. However, Bochan Bird has recently stumbled onto the absolute answer, held within the Eva Carddass Masters Trading Card Game.

Here is the original answer I wrote for this FAQ:
'I need you.' affirms Shinji's choice to return to reality, and in doing so has separated himself from Asuka once more. His first impulse is to strangle her, to finish what he started during Complementation. But then he feels her caress (which is very similar to the one he received from his mother only moments before) and realizes what he's doing. He releases his grip and collapses as an emotionally broken little boy - which disgusts Asuka.

The following presents the definitive answer to this question, as translated by Bochan Bird -
Part II (movies) Drama card D-88
Title: "Kimochi warui"
Small print:
"Shinji renounced the world where all hearts had melted into one and accepted each other unconditionally. His desire... to live with 'others' -- other hearts that would sometimes reject him, even deny him. That is why the first thing he did after coming to his senses was to place his hands around Asuka's neck. To feel the existence of an 'other'. To confirm (make sure of) rejection and denial."

---- So, I was half right. The scene is meant to be an affirmation of Shinji's decision to return to reality. As I wrote on the Evangelion ML, the scene is there to prove "pain once again exists" . However, I didn't give Shinji enough credit for his intention when he strangled her. I thought it was a carry over from the previous strangulation scene, when it was actually meant as a test to see if he was indeed back in the real world.

Edit:

AEF, omedetou! ^_^

(You win teh internet for your l33t explaination!!) Hopefully those pics and lines you posted on the previous page go along with the above info I provided. Seems to, as both of what we posted are showing Asuka disgusted by Shinji's helpless/"weak" attitude... I guess translating it as "You make me sick" would work the best, then. (You hear us, Mangle??! :evil:) "How disgusting" just doesn't have the same...I dunno, feeling behind it.

So, now that we possibly got that part covered, why the hell did Asuka caress Shinji's cheek? Especially with Asuka, she's a character where you have to pay attention not just to her words, but actions as well.

(Watch, the first person who replies to this will probably be Tines-san with a counter-arguement, nonetheless. :wink:

)

Anonymous_Evafan · Postby **Anonymous_Evafan** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 5:35 am

It does fit her dislike of his wussy nature.

ZOMG her eyes are angled down the same way in both pics! What could it mean?

Postby **Sailor Star Dust** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:12 am

Well, from a literal perspective, she's looking down at him... :wink:

Legend of the Past · Postby **Legend of the Past** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:20 pm

Sailor Star Dust wrote:I don't see it as Shinji having "missed his chance", I see it as Asuka telling Shinji he WILL miss his chance if he doesn't shape up/pay some freaking attention to her.

That would work elsewhere, but given the place and time.. Basically, this whole scene is everyone Shinji ever held dear (sort of, other than Yui) telling him 'You suck. You just suck. You're a big disgusting fuck. But don't worry-trust us. Become one with us.' To which Shinji calls them liars.

This whole thing is like their way of telling him that all the time for growing close to them, for fixing his errors and become a good person is up-Free thought and separation are going to disappear. You could say this could be a way to really drive Shinji over the edge, and it worked-Shinji wanted everyone to die. Thankfully, once he really saw what's it's like he figured 'Wait.. this ain't right'. Though, I'm surprised he didn't stop for a couple of minutes to think with RNR on top of him.. :lol:

Postby **Sailor Star Dust** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 5:04 pm

I'm assuming RNR is some acronym for Rei being naked, but anyway... ^^;

In terms of ANY of those negative Pre-Instrumentality moments in EoE, be it that sequence including the train metaphor we see whenever we enter Shinji's mind (16(?), 19(?) and 20) or Shinji inside Lillith-Rei as the barrage of "break-up" lines and flashing scenes/images start, I kind of think despite it being really Asuka and the like saying those things to him, it goes along with 26 and the whole "nobody hates you, you're just the one who wants to think that and made yourself believe that" bit.

With Asuka especially, yeah she's pissed at Shinji (mostly for his acting so weak and STILL not being receptive to her feelings, I'd say; see my previous post where I include that evaotaku faq quote), and claims to "hate everyone" (22/22', 25 & 26), but it seems to be a front in a sense. In 25(?) or 26, she said herself that she doesn't want to be alone, that it's painful, yet she has no choice BUT to act that way (because nobody helps her/protects her). ...Or so she thinks. Basically, Asuka doesn't have to act the way she does in terms of pushing everyone away (and despite trying to act mature, is immature in not realizing nobody including her is perfect) but I guess trying other approaches didn't work for her. Kyoko (after going nuts) telling Asuka she isn't loved or needed certainly set her back... :(
Also, I do think Shinji DOES want to help her and love her, but he literally doesn't know what to do, or at least he's so into his own needs that he can't see what Asuka's are.

....*sigh* Those two are so fucked up mentally, yet that's what makes them interesting compared to typical anime fare couples. ^_^

Anonymous_Evafan · Postby **Anonymous_Evafan** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 5:32 pm

Legend of the Past wrote:
Sailor Star Dust wrote:I don't see it as Shinji having "missed his chance", I see it as Asuka telling Shinji he WILL miss his chance if he doesn't shape up/pay some freaking attention to her.

That would work elsewhere, but given the place and time.. Basically, this whole scene is everyone Shinji ever held dear (sort of, other than Yui) telling him 'You suck. You just suck. You're a big disgusting fuck. But don't worry-trust us. Become one with us.' To which Shinji calls them liars.

Huh? Asuka didn't seem to like the idea of being one.

Women's voices (Misato, Rei, Asuka):
Do you want to be at ease? To feel at peace?
Do you want to become one with me?
To have our bodies and souls... become one.

Asuka (voice):
But, if I have to be with you, I'd rather die!

Anyways that "Do you want to become one with me?" stuff didn't happen until after 3I, which happened after the strangulation. All of the madness before that was Lilith induced instrumentality. You know the Rei-tachi floating/standing over Misato and Ritsuko. She is acting as a link for their souls. Quantum Magic at it's best! It also begs the question if that's what they're trying to say then why did Rei/Lilith and Kaworu/Adam restore the A.T. Fields for him?

Sailor Star Dust wrote:I'm assuming RNR is some acronym for Rei being naked, but anyway... ^^;

Regular Naked Rei

Legend of the Past · Postby **Legend of the Past** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:58 pm

Anonymous_Evafan wrote:
Legend of the Past wrote:
Sailor Star Dust wrote:I don't see it as Shinji having "missed his chance", I see it as Asuka telling Shinji he WILL miss his chance if he doesn't shape up/pay some freaking attention to her.

That would work elsewhere, but given the place and time.. Basically, this whole scene is everyone Shinji ever held dear (sort of, other than Yui) telling him 'You suck. You just suck. You're a big disgusting fuck. But don't worry-trust us. Become one with us.' To which Shinji calls them liars.

Huh? Asuka didn't seem to like the idea of being one.
Women's voices (Misato, Rei, Asuka):
Do you want to be at ease? To feel at peace?
Do you want to become one with me?
To have our bodies and souls... become one.

Asuka (voice):
But, if I have to be with you, I'd rather die!

Anyways that "Do you want to become one with me?" stuff didn't happen until after 3I, which happened after the strangulation. All of the madness before that was Lilith induced instrumentality. You know the Rei-tachi floating/standing over Misato and Ritsuko. She is acting as a link for their souls. Quantum Magic at it's best! It also begs the question if that's what they're trying to say then why did Rei/Lilith and Kaworu/Adam restore the A.T. Fields for him?
Sailor Star Dust wrote:I'm assuming RNR is some acronym for Rei being naked, but anyway... ^^;

Regular Naked Rei

I actually just watched it yesterday. Indeed, it was Lilith induced madness, and yes, Asuka's persona certainly did have her honest say on the matter-but the effect is the same, Lilith invaded his ATF to shatter his mind.

Postby **Sailor Star Dust** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:02 am

@ above post: So I guess that's what Reichu meant by Pre-I being a pratical joke by Yui-sama-tachi? Lilith is just screwing with Shinji's mind?? :shock:

ugh. My brain hurts now. Does that mean it's NOT Asuka and the rest talking to Shinji, or it is but Lilith is just screwing around?

meh. *bangs head against wall*

MaggotMaster · Postby **MaggotMaster** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:17 am

Sailor Star Dust wrote:ugh. My brain hurts now. Does that mean it's NOT Asuka and the rest talking to Shinji, or it is but Lilith is just screwing around?

Yes they are, if they weren't, a huge deal of the plot points on EoE would be denied.

Vinyl collection at Discogs · Postby **Ornette** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:22 am

Sailor Star Dust wrote:@ above post: So I guess that's what Reichu meant by Pre-I being a pratical joke by Yui-sama-tachi? Lilith is just screwing with Shinji's mind??

I'm not sure I can agree with that (not directed to Sailor Star Dust). At that point, how much was "Lilith" as opposed to "Rei Ayanami", not physically speaking, GNR or not, Shinji responded as "Rei?". Although Rei/Lilith probably had something to play in the events following pre instrumentality, I can't see it as anything but "I served the ball and now it's in your court". I'm not convinced that pre instrumentality was actually directly of Yui-sama's doing.

The triggering factor wasn't GNR/Lilith doing her thing (actually what is her thing?), the immediate line being "This is what you've wished for", then Shinji gets tangified. So, perhaps, regardless of the situation, Shinij was going to be tangified into pre-instrumentality anyways.

Anonymous Evafan wrote:Anyways that "Do you want to become one with me?" stuff didn't happen until after 3I, which happened after the strangulation. All of the madness before that was Lilith induced instrumentality. You know the Rei-tachi floating/standing over Misato and Ritsuko. She is acting as a link for their souls. Quantum Magic at it's best! It also begs the question if that's what they're trying to say then why did Rei/Lilith and Kaworu/Adam restore the A.T. Fields for him?

Just following "Why don't you be kind to me" from Shinji, you got the "Do you want to be one with me" motif from the series, except all superimposed as one. But instead of the "Do you want to be one with me" they're saying "I am [kind to you]". The visual cue is there, however, the meaning is debatable (as such in a few posts in this thread), but I don't completely understand the Lilith induced madness that you're talking about (clarification needed, maybe I'm understanding it wrong).

YouTube · Postby **Reichu** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:33 am

Anonymous_Evafan wrote:It also begs the question if that's what they're trying to say then why did Rei/Lilith and Kaworu/Adam restore the A.T. Fields for him?

"Begging the Question" Isn't What You Think It Is.

Anonymous_Evafan · Postby **Anonymous_Evafan** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:36 am

Legend of the Past wrote:I actually just watched it yesterday. Indeed, it was Lilith induced madness, and yes, Asuka's persona certainly did have her honest say on the matter-but the effect is the same, Lilith invaded his ATF to shatter his mind.

Um I still don't follow. Why would she do that only to help him Post 3I? Let's not forget Yui's and Rei's words before Shinji went sploosh.

Yui (voice):
This Rei is your heart... Your very hopes and dreams...

Rei (voice):
What do you wish for?

She seemed to be trying to help him Pre 3I.

Shinji:
Then, be nice to me...

Asuka/Misato/Rei:
We are nice to you.

Shinji:
LIARS!! You're all just hiding behind a smile!
You just want to keep things ambiguous!

Rei:
Because the truth hurts us all... Because it's very, very distressing.

Shinji:
But ambiguity only makes me insecure.

Rei:
That's just an excuse...

Shinji:
But it makes me afraid... Afraid that I won't be needed again someday.
It makes me uneasy! It worries me! Let me hear your voice!
Interact with me!!
Care about me!!!

And again Post 3I.

Shinji:
Nobody understands me.

Rei:
You didn't understand anything.

Shinji:
I thought it was supposed to be a world without unpleasantness... without uncertainty

Rei:
Because you thought that everyone else was like you.

Shinji:
Betrayed! You've betrayed my feelings!!

Rei:
You've misunderstood from the start. You simply assumed without asking.

Shinji:
Nobody wants me. So, everybody just die.

Rei:
Then, what are those hands for?

Shinji:
Nobody cares whether I exist or not... Nothing will change.
So, everybody just die.

Rei:
Then, what is that heart for?

Shinji:
It'd be better if I wasn't here either. So I should just die, too.

Rei:
Then, why are you here?

Shinji:
Is it okay for me to be here?

If Lilith had such malicious intent then why offer to restore the A.T. Fields and do so? Further more why would Shinji be thanking her?

Rei:
If you wish once more for the existence of others, the barriers of the heart will separate everyone once more...
And the fear of other people will begin again.

Shinji:
That's all right... Thank you.

Ornette wrote:but I don't completely understand the Lilith induced madness that you're talking about (clarification needed, maybe I'm understanding it wrong).

Her linking their souls together for that entertaining interaction Pre-3I.

It is them talking to Shinji. EoTV puts it into context.

Shinji:
This is the me that exists in your mind, Misato.

Misato:
And at the same time, the me that exists in your mind, right?

Shinji:
This is the me that exists in your mind, Asuka.

Asuka:
Which means, it's also the me that exists in your mind, right?

Reichu wrote:
Anonymous_Evafan wrote:It also begs the question if that's what they're trying to say then why did Rei/Lilith and Kaworu/Adam restore the A.T. Fields for him?

"Begging the Question" Isn't What You Think It Is.

LMAO oops!

Vinyl collection at Discogs · Postby **Ornette** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:44 am

Anonymous Evafan wrote:Her linking their souls together for that entertaining interaction Pre-31.

Does that mean the point of pre instrumentality is to get Shinji to want that "everyone should die"?

Anonymous_Evafan · Postby **Anonymous_Evafan** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:49 am

Ornette wrote:Does that mean the point of pre instrumentality is to get Shinji to want that "everyone should die"?

Don't ask me what Rei was doing! I got no clue on that one go fanwank something. Though I can see how that would be the point since Rei has no control over Asuka's actions.

YouTube · Postby **Reichu** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:53 am

Anonymous_Evafan wrote:Don't ask me what Rei was doing! I got no clue on that one go fanwank something.

N-n-no. That's Anno's line.

:scuttles off:

Kimochi Warui

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