Differing title cards/eyecatches in ep 15 + 24
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- MoroNoKimi
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Differing title cards/eyecatches in ep 15 + 24
Today I was going through the series and getting screenshots of the title cards/eyecatches (Japanese and English) for all the episodes (for a little project I'm doing) and I noticed something that's really bugging me.
For all of the episodes, the Japanese and English title cards/eyecatches are white text on a black background--EXCEPT for episodes 15 and 24, for which the Japanese title cards are black text on a white background.
But why? Why only these two, and why these two in particular? It honestly seems unlikely to be random coincidence or to have no particular meaning.
I feel like there has to be some kind of connection between the two episodes, and moreover probably some way that the episodes are intended to be differentiated from the rest of the series.
Could the connection be something to do with Shinji's relationships (with Asuka re:15 and with Kaworu re:24)? Or with doomed relationships which are separated by the death of one partner (Misato and Kaji, and Shinji and Kaworu)? Does it have something to do with the identity of Lilith, since in both episodes 15 and 24, someone mistakes Lilith for Adam?
I'd really like to hear some other people's thoughts on this, as I'm sure there could be more possible connections.
For all of the episodes, the Japanese and English title cards/eyecatches are white text on a black background--EXCEPT for episodes 15 and 24, for which the Japanese title cards are black text on a white background.
But why? Why only these two, and why these two in particular? It honestly seems unlikely to be random coincidence or to have no particular meaning.
I feel like there has to be some kind of connection between the two episodes, and moreover probably some way that the episodes are intended to be differentiated from the rest of the series.
Could the connection be something to do with Shinji's relationships (with Asuka re:15 and with Kaworu re:24)? Or with doomed relationships which are separated by the death of one partner (Misato and Kaji, and Shinji and Kaworu)? Does it have something to do with the identity of Lilith, since in both episodes 15 and 24, someone mistakes Lilith for Adam?
I'd really like to hear some other people's thoughts on this, as I'm sure there could be more possible connections.
I imagine that with today's standards, episode 15 would indicate the final episode of the first half or the first episode of the second half so that's why they decided to make a little change. Episode 24 is the last episode were Shinji interacts with the other characters in the real world so it is some kind of a closure because Episode 25 and 26 is about Instrumentality so these two episodes can be considered separate (plus we have EOE where Episodes 25 and 26 are unfolding in a different way).
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That would be Ep.13 and 14
Episode 24 is the last episode were Shinji interacts with the other characters in the real world
I doubt that was in the original plan
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Not necessarily. Assuming that a second half starts when there is a new OP (or ED), there are many animes that got a new OP in episode 15 or 16 and finished with 24 or 26 episodes.
It doesn't matter because in the end it's the one we got to see.
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If 15 was the final/first episode of the first/second half, then shouldn't the episode count be 30/28?
It doesn't matter because in the end it's the one we got to see.
That doesn't answer the question as to why it was put there in the first place, before the plan changed
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""Trolling the audience" is the same thing as "challenging the audience" (to an audience that doesn't want to be challenged)." -Reichu
Because it doesn't have the same number of episodes like the first half? I don't think it matters so much.
No it doesn't but this is an other discussion.
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- MoroNoKimi
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Dima wrote:I imagine that with today's standards, episode 15 would indicate the final episode of the first half or the first episode of the second half so that's why they decided to make a little change. Episode 24 is the last episode were Shinji interacts with the other characters in the real world so it is some kind of a closure because Episode 25 and 26 is about Instrumentality so these two episodes can be considered separate (plus we have EOE where Episodes 25 and 26 are unfolding in a different way).
While episode 15 isn't the midpoint of just the series, it IS roughly the midpoint if you include EoE, but that doesn't then explain why episode 24 would be the same way. And looking at the screenshots I realized that, further complicating matters, the first half of EoE (Air) is also technically black text on white background, albeit as a small square in the middle of a black screen.
Even if it doesn't have symbolic meaning per se, and is basically just a stylistic choice, there would have to be a REASON for said stylistic choice being made.
I don't even remember what happens in those episodes aside from a couple of things but I'm calling something different from the mirror motifs. Which doesn't solve shit. Idk any of the colour symbolism in NGE because that's the deal, Idk what blue/red/white/black stand for.
As far as white goes I choose death/supernatural/demon stuff because....that's what the episodes feature? Only different from the angel of the week. Can't remember ep 15
As far as white goes I choose death/supernatural/demon stuff because....that's what the episodes feature? Only different from the angel of the week. Can't remember ep 15
- MoroNoKimi
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unz wrote:I don't even remember what happens in those episodes aside from a couple of things but I'm calling something different from the mirror motifs. Which doesn't solve shit. Idk any of the colour symbolism in NGE because that's the deal, Idk what blue/red/white/black stand for.
As far as white goes I choose death/supernatural/demon stuff because....that's what the episodes feature? Only different from the angel of the week. Can't remember ep 15
In episode 15 the major events are: Misato and Kaji get back together, Shinji and Gendou visit Yui's grave, Asuka kisses Shinji, we get more stuff about Kaji being a spy/triple agent, and Misato catches him spying so they go down to Terminal Dogma and we get our first look at Lilith (where Kaji tells Misato it's Adam.)
In episode 24 Kaworu arrives, meets Shinji, he and Shinji become close just in time for Kaworu to reveal himself to be the final Angel, then Shinji has to kill him.
The association with death only works for episode 24 and EoE: Air, not episode 15.
MoroNoKimi wrote:In episode 15 the major events are: Misato and Kaji get back together, Shinji and Gendou visit Yui's grave, Asuka kisses Shinji, we get more stuff about Kaji being a spy/triple agent, and Misato catches him spying so they go down to Terminal Dogma and we get our first look at Lilith (where Kaji tells Misato it's Adam.)
In episode 24 Kaworu arrives, meets Shinji, he and Shinji become close just in time for Kaworu to reveal himself to be the final Angel, then Shinji has to kill him.
The association with death only works for episode 24 and EoE: Air, not episode 15.
It seems to me the most obvious connection between the three is Terminal Dogma, though I guess we get a peak of it when we see Rei impaling Lillith with the Lance of Longinus. Is episode 24 the episode where Asuka tries to kill herself? If it is it could be symbolic of her deterioration.
- MoroNoKimi
- Sachiel
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Didn't see this until today, oops. The connection to Terminal Dogma was one of my first thoughts too, but you might be on to something with relating it to Asuka's character arc. Yes, episode 24 has the scene with her in the bathtub. And then of course the business in all of Evangelion Air which is the effective end of her arc as well as her life.
I've honestly never been completely sold on the theory of Asuka's apparent attempted suicide, but for this purpose I won't argue. The thing that doesn't quite seem to fit, I think, is that in episode 15 she really hasn't deteriorated much yet, and it's not exactly the start of her character arc either.... Maybe the important part is that it's the first real hint of her underlying instability?
MoroNoKimi wrote:Didn't see this until today, oops. The connection to Terminal Dogma was one of my first thoughts too, but you might be on to something with relating it to Asuka's character arc. Yes, episode 24 has the scene with her in the bathtub. And then of course the business in all of Evangelion Air which is the effective end of her arc as well as her life.
I've honestly never been completely sold on the theory of Asuka's apparent attempted suicide, but for this purpose I won't argue. The thing that doesn't quite seem to fit, I think, is that in episode 15 she really hasn't deteriorated much yet, and it's not exactly the start of her character arc either.... Maybe the important part is that it's the first real hint of her underlying instability?
Well episode 15 does have the scene when Kaji brings Misato home, Asuka grabs his arm and smells Misato's perfume, realizes that Kaji has feelings for Misato instead of her, and then freaks out at Shinji when he asks her what's wrong. I also heard somewhere that in Japan, white is symbolic of death, whilst black is symbolic of life. If we could get solid confirmation of that it might give us another clue.
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^
I don't know about the black part, but white is the traditional colour worn on funerals - nowadays though, people tend to wear black, as in western countries. They still offer white rice and white flowers for the deceased, though. I'm not sure, but maybe that's because the "Shi" in "Shiro" (the Japanese word for White) is phonetically the same as the word for death (Shi). Which is also why you should never bring 4 of anything, because 4 can be read "Shi" as well.
I don't know about the black part, but white is the traditional colour worn on funerals - nowadays though, people tend to wear black, as in western countries. They still offer white rice and white flowers for the deceased, though. I'm not sure, but maybe that's because the "Shi" in "Shiro" (the Japanese word for White) is phonetically the same as the word for death (Shi). Which is also why you should never bring 4 of anything, because 4 can be read "Shi" as well.
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- MoroNoKimi
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Yes, I agree with both of you, I think that's the crux of the issue in the first place. Connections between episode 24 and the first half of EoE are really obvious and concrete, but episode 15 throws the whole thing off because that isn't a single major thing we can point to.
The connections are almost arbitrary at that point, especially since episode 15 isn't even the major turning point of the series or the sign of the impending downward spiral; that's episode, 16.
Symbolic/previous death in the earlier episode might be a a good connection though, in that it forms a progression of deaths in ascending order of...severity? That is, starts with a past death in episode 15, then in episode 24 there is a single death, and then once you reach EoE it's a cascade of deaths. And it is supported by the death/white symbolism in Japanese culture. But it does strike me somewhat as grasping at straws.
I recognize that there's probably a degree of reading too much into it, but given how much other subtle symbolism can be found in the series I don't really believe in accidents here.
It should be pointed out the narrative doesn't require everyone to die in the judgement day/end of evangelion but to deny the apocalypse stuff related to it by saving the day. It plays it as something the audience is supposed to know and it fits a kids show where no1 actually dies in the end...despite all the torture eva characters go through.
You could read white backgrounds as mournings on the dead or huge and meaningful ones or some foreshadowing for the Japanese audience to rant on while being afraid for some character.
This was probably kept in NTE too with ayanamis' suits and evas, like whole programs for their characters arcs. NGE/EOE likely was "HAH you thought ghost girl dies first* huh what's the point have everyone in your face".
*which happens but turns out she's a clone
You could read white backgrounds as mournings on the dead or huge and meaningful ones or some foreshadowing for the Japanese audience to rant on while being afraid for some character.
This was probably kept in NTE too with ayanamis' suits and evas, like whole programs for their characters arcs. NGE/EOE likely was "HAH you thought ghost girl dies first* huh what's the point have everyone in your face".
*which happens but turns out she's a clone
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