A few evangelion questions

[Legend of the Past]

For the MP Evas, which don't seem to have a whole lot of AT fieldness, a few Clan Gauss rounds to the core ought to be enough.

Asuka: "So you're telling me that NOW?! =_="

[Reichu]

To beat an Eva, the idea 'Mech (a Mad Cat Mark II will do nicely) only has to blow off its power cable and find somewhere safe to spend the next five minutes.

Ah, chicken-shit tactics, eh?

Now, how about beating an Eva Eva? (You know, the kind that is really pissed off and can blow up stuff just by looking at it.)

For the MP Evas, which don't seem to have a whole lot of AT fieldness

They show off tons of AT Field lunacy in #26' -- not sure how that relates to their (usually) crappy fighting skills, though.

[Legend of the Past]

The MP EVAs might suck due to them being on Dummy Plug. Kaworu's Dummy Plug seems to be more dumb than Rei's, but none-the-less cannibalistic.

[BobBQ]

Ah, chicken-shit tactics, eh?

Whatever works. It's only a chicken-shit tactic if you are (a) on the losing team or (b) a Proud Warrior Race Guy.

Now, how about beating an Eva Eva? (You know, the kind that is really pissed off and can blow up stuff just by looking at it.)

The average 'Mech is at a disadvantage, true. It does not have opposable thumbs. It does not have an AT field. It can't throw away its weapons and grab a new set when it runs out of ammo. It can't go berserk when the pilot is useless and the fate of the whole storyline depends on it doing something that everyone says is impossible. Compared to an Eva with a sane pilot, it is sluggish and clumsy.

On the other hand, the typical 'Mech does have a fusion reactor that lets it run far longer than an Eva with no power cable. If it has jump jets, it can clear obstacles that an Eva would have to go around or climb over.

Assuming a lance or two could be dropped outside Tokyo-3 without detection, which seems to be pretty simple given how fast both the Angels and the JSSDF were able to get inside the perimeter, a combination of Long Tom artillery and Clan Light Gauss Rifles (1200 meter range and all that) would give the 'Mechs a slight edge if they can hit the Evas before the Evas can get close enough to hit back.

Sheesh. I'd better stop before I sound too much more like a fanboy.

[Nukie]

Why were they needed in the first place? They're a bunch of crappy barely-Evas, and Lilith already has the Adam element right with here -- in Adam, and possibly in EVA-01 as well.

And what function did EVA-01 + Spear (ToL) serve in Lilith's scenario?

Apparently the ToL was formed during Second Impact, as well, but it becomes rather difficult to figure out the correlation, since Adam was busy blowing up / retroverting. That leaves us with no apparent entity to form the "base" of the Tree.

Just a guess here, but there's no indication that Unit 01 could create an AATF. That would leave only the MP Evas (since Seele's original plan did not include Lillith(?)) Then Shogouki would act as the Lillith substitute.

As for the purpose of the tree, does anybody know? My guess was that it was the controller of third impact (the best analogy I can think of ATM is a computer- the computer has the power, but the human controls that power.)

The second impact tree of life was formed by LoL+ the baby Jesus. Yep. :P

My question: why WAS Adam needed by Rei?

[ChronoX]

Rei was only a half angel, so it is probable that she needed to absorb Adam to unleash her full power.

[InvaderRen]

you mean other than she can spread a massive ATField and levitate....

before everything hit the fan (when is that exactly in this show?)

[Reichu]

Rei was only a half angel, so it is probable that she needed to absorb Adam to unleash her full power.

How can Rei be "half angel"? Matter of Lilith (for #2 and up), mold of Lilim.

2nd Angel - Lilith
18th Angel - Lilim

Rei is 100% Angel.

However, if you're talking about "Angel" in the sense of "Adam & Family", then Rei is 0% Angel.

[ChronoX]

Rei was only a half angel, so it is probable that she needed to absorb Adam to unleash her full power.

How can Rei be "half angel"? Matter of Lilith (for #2 and up), mold of Lilim.

2nd Angel - Lilith
18th Angel - Lilim

Rei is 100% Angel.

However, if you're talking about "Angel" in the sense of "Adam & Family", then Rei is 0% Angel.

Rei's DNA was half Lilith and Half Yui, therefore she is only half angel.
if she was full angel, then why wouldn't she have gone after adam and lilith on her own?
this is just how I see it.

[Millions Livio]

Rei was only a half angel, so it is probable that she needed to absorb Adam to unleash her full power.

How can Rei be "half angel"? Matter of Lilith (for #2 and up), mold of Lilim.

2nd Angel - Lilith
18th Angel - Lilim

Rei is 100% Angel.

However, if you're talking about "Angel" in the sense of "Adam & Family", then Rei is 0% Angel.

Rei's DNA was half Lilith and Half Yui, therefore she is only half angel.
if she was full angel, then why wouldn't she have gone after adam and lilith on her own?
this is just how I see it.

Interesting, but how would Kaworu be explained.

[Reichu]

Rei's DNA was half Lilith and Half Yui, therefore she is only half angel.

Do you have any evidence that she possesses Lilith DNA?

if she was full angel, then why wouldn't she have gone after adam and lilith on her own?

There are two definitions of "Angel", as mentioned above: (1) Adam's children (or, less often, Adam and family), and (2) all humans aside from the first.* Rei would thus only be "half Angel" if one were using definition #1 and she was half Angel, half something else. From that perspective, Kaworu could be considered "half Angel".

Rei, on the other half, doesn't qualify either way.

* Definition #2 is the one eluded to by Misato in #25'. Here, "Angel" includes everyone given an official designation (1st, 2nd, etc.), along with, tacitly, Evas and any other humans ultimately derived from the First Ancestral Race.

[ChronoX]

Ok Reichu, I couldn't find anywhere that it specifically said that Rei was made from Lilith and Yui's DNA, must have read too many fanfics with that line of reasoning.
But then again, how was it that she could control her AT field and not fall apart?
in EOE i believe, when Gendou and Rei are in front of Lilith, why is Rei needed if she doesn't have angel DNA? Why is she needed when Adam is implanted into Gendou's hand? Couldn't he have just walked up into lilith and initiated instrumentality himself?

[cat42]

Something that has been bothering me, how many souls are there in Eva-01? When we see Yui, and we know for a fact that it's Yui, she has short hair, yet the spectoral figure shown in Ep. 16 has long hair. Also at the very end of EoE, the Eva itself has long flowing spectoral hair...

Is this long haired spector Yui, or is it the "will" of the Eva? And how can it have a "will" without a soul?

@Mundane: Avoid double-posting -- and triple-posting is definitely out. Learn to use the Edit button, please.

Mundane didn't triple post, InvaderRen just has the same avatar.

[Mundane]

Cat42 speaks for me, muchas gracias.

[Shin-seiki]

Something that has been bothering me, how many souls are there in Eva-01? When we see Yui, and we know for a fact that it's Yui, she has short hair, yet the spectoral figure shown in Ep. 16 has long hair. Also at the very end of EoE, the Eva itself has long flowing spectoral hair...

The apparition of Yui (note that Shinji readily responds to it as "Mother") that appears in #16 seems to be a deliberate reference to the way she is depicted in a similar scene in the manga (Sadamoto, amazingly enough, makes it clear that Yui is inside Unit-01 in the first volume!) It may be that, because the connection between Rei and Yui was still very vague at this point in the narrative, and not wanting to make it too obvious, Anno used Sadamoto's somewhat 'generic female' looking Yui for #16.

[Reichu]

The apparition of Yui (note that Shinji readily responds to it as "Mother") that appears in #16 seems to be a deliberate reference to the way she is depicted in a similar scene in the manga (Sadamoto, amazingly enough, makes it clear that Yui is inside Unit-01 in the first volume!) It may be that, because the connection between Rei and Yui was still very vague at this point in the narrative, and not wanting to make it too obvious, Anno used Sadamoto's somewhat 'generic female' looking Yui for #16.

Earlier in episode #16, we saw Yui more than clearly enough...



...to know that she doesn't look like this:



If anything, it relates more to what Shinji said in #15:

IKARI:
It's been three years since the last time we came here together.

Shinji:
I ran away then, and haven't been back since.
It just hasn't sunk in that Mother is resting here.
I don't even remember her face.

In #16, he first sees this "woman" figure. He only identifies it as "Mother" after the embrace. Then, we see this:



An incredibly vague image of Yui -- meant to represent Shinji's vestigial memories of his mother, I wager.

Is Shinji at first only able to identify the approaching presence as feminine, hence why she's represented so generically? (Plus they can make a Sadamoto reference, as I speculated way back when.)

[cat42]

So, is the spectoral long haired figure Shinji's image of Yui? If so, why does Eva-01 have the spectoral hair in EoE when Shinji now knows what his mother looks like?

[Reichu]

So, is the spectoral long haired figure Shinji's image of Yui?

I theorize that it's of a female presence not yet identified as "Mother".

If so, why does Eva-01 have the spectoral hair in EoE when Shinji now knows what his mother looks like?

As far as I can tell, that has less to do with Shinji and more to do with this:

[cat42]

As far as I can tell, that has less to do with Shinji and more to do with this:

I disagree. More of the image depicts an angel with a core and many wings covered in eyes, there is no hair.

Really what it better explains is the "kilroy" image that apears on several of the angels, and on Unit-01, the eye motif on several angels, and the wings of the harpies.

But it doesn't explain Eva-01 resident spector woman, or it's spectoral hair.

My theory is that it's the "will" of the Eva, as Ritsuko mentioned the Eva as having a "will". What doesn't make sense to me though is why is the Eva's will seperate from Yui?

[Shin-seiki]

As far as I can tell, that has less to do with Shinji and more to do with this:

I disagree. More of the image depicts an angel with a core and many wings covered in eyes, there is no hair.

And I disagree with your disagreement (scroll to the bottom of the page)

My theory is that it's the "will" of the Eva, as Ritsuko mentioned the Eva as having a "will". What doesn't make sense to me though is why is the Eva's will seperate from Yui?

Ritsuko is talking about Yui's will; I don't get why you think she's talking about something else...