Direct reference to EVA's use of mothers' souls

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Direct reference to EVA's use of mothers' souls

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Postby robin007bond » Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:36 pm

It's been a long time since I saw Evangelion from scratch. I've looked up a lot of information about EVA and I'm rewatching it now with my girlfriend.

My girlfriend is at episode 22 now. I told her that Unit 01 contains Yui's soul. I'm afraid that I spoiled the story a little, because I paid a lot of attention but couldn't find a direct reference to the use of Shinji's mothers' soul. Yes, you can see the contact experiment. But I didn't saw an exact reference to the use of her soul.

Did I spoil the fact that Shinji's mother is inside Unit 01 or could it already be interpreted that way because of the contact experiment in episode 21? I feel bad because I got the feeling that I spoiled that clue to my girlfriend. I searched EvaGeeks and searched the web with Google, but couldn't find a direct reference to an episode where it is mentioned. It makes sense because of the thoughts Shinji had about his mom while being merged with Unit 01, but that's about it for me.

Did I overlook something in the anime? Did I miss something on the site? I searched a lot, but it's everywhere stated as a fact, but I'm having a hard time finding the exact references. It's clear in EoE, where Yui explains that she wants to be eternal proof of the existence of mankind, but I can't find a reference in the series. I'm feeling so stupid now, because it's so clearly stated as fact everywhere. As if it is thrown in your face. I know that Ritsuko mentions the use of souls.

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:03 pm

It's in the CI, IIRC.

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Postby robin007bond » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:14 pm

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:It's in the CI, IIRC.

Thanks! You're right.
http://wiki.evageeks.org/Classified_Information_(Translation)#The_Development_of_Eva

So it's only mentioned in the CI-files? I'm glad that I didn't spoil my girlfriend.

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Postby Mr. Tines » Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:07 pm

In 24', Gendo addresses E\A-01 as Yui; and it's rather spelled out towards the end of EoE. But that cound be considered a different continuity to the On Air conclusion
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Postby Joy Evangelion » Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:19 pm

This page, http://wiki.evageeks.org/Theory_and_Analysis:Eva-00%27s_Soul , includes a quote by Sadamoto from Der Mond in which he says, "the dead mother is inside the robot."
Also, as Tines alluded to, Yui speaks of the human soul that resides inside the Eva towards the end of EoE.
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Re: Direct reference to EVA's use of mothers' souls

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Postby NemZ » Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:20 pm

View Original Postrobin007bond wrote:Did I spoil the fact that Shinji's mother is inside Unit 01 or could it already be interpreted that way because of the contact experiment in episode 21?


It should be reasonably deduced from Shinji's experiences within Liliel, while absorbed in eva 01, the backstory in 21 and the eva's protective self-activation all the way back in ep1.
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Postby JoeD80 » Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:03 pm

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:In 24', Gendo addresses E\A-01 as Yui; and it's rather spelled out towards the end of EoE. But that cound be considered a different continuity to the On Air conclusion

He said that in the on-air version of 24 too.

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Postby Reichu » Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:30 pm

Shinji also addresses Eva-01 as "Mother" in episode 25.

Shinji: "Answer me! Mother!!"
*menacing close-up of Eva-01*

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Postby TheAdmiral » Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:53 pm

Based on what I've gathered, an EVA is considered to be a triune being, just like a human. The EVA itself represents the body, the pilot is the soul (notice that when the plug is inserted, the pilot is in roundabouts the upper heart position of the EVA, the well of the soul) and the pilot's mother is the Holy Spirit, or just Spirit in the general area of the EVA's heart.

I suspect that this is part of the reason why EVA-00 went berserk with Rei aboard the first time, as I don't think that that unit has any spirit contained within it.

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Tue Dec 23, 2014 4:25 pm

View Original PostTheAdmiral wrote:I suspect that this is part of the reason why EVA-00 went berserk with Rei aboard the first time, as I don't think that that unit has any spirit contained within it.

It's not a matter of contention as to whether or not the Eva has a soul in it-- it's established that the soul is the control system, and without a control system, you don't get anything. The big question is whose soul is inside, and that's a big debate. The current consensus is that Rei I's soul is inside it.

See here for a summary of the arguments.

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Postby Reichu » Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:01 pm

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:it's established that the soul is the control system, and without a control system, you don't get anything.

It's established in 3.0 that Yui "became" a control system, not that it's her soul that is one. And the assumption that it is (which may be reasonable) is obviously not backwards compatible. The Eva souls in NGE are never called "control systems" and I don't think it would be wise to start. :p CI described the mother's soul as basically a medium between the pilot and the Eva's body.

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Postby TheAdmiral » Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:17 pm

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:It's not a matter of contention as to whether or not the Eva has a soul in it-- it's established that the soul is the control system, and without a control system, you don't get anything. The big question is whose soul is inside, and that's a big debate. The current consensus is that Rei I's soul is inside it.

See here for a summary of the arguments.


Thanks for that link, a very interesting read indeed. I think I'm going to have to re-watch certain episodes.

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:36 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:CI described the mother's soul as basically a medium between the pilot and the Eva's body.

Specific wording aside, then, wouldn't it be logical to conclude that without a soul, the Eva can't do anything?

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Postby Reichu » Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:49 pm

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:Specific wording aside, then, wouldn't it be logical to conclude that without a soul, the Eva can't do anything?

Well, those Rei bodies didn't have souls, but they still had some physical functionality. Arguably this is made possible by the dummy system they're connected to, described in CI as an "artificial soul", but still ... the issue is so muddled we'll never really know what's going on.

When it comes down to it, Evas have souls because they need to have ATFs to be useful. Perhaps if this were not a requirement, we would be seeing very different tech in the show.

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Postby TheAdmiral » Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:10 am

...And now we venture onto an even slipperier slope: what about the mass-production units? It's stated that they use a dummy plug based on Kaoru which accounts for the pilot, but what else is in there?

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Postby fizz450_03 » Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:42 am

^ could it be that the MPs have some portion of Adam's soul in them?
only mankind would be foolish enough to harness the engine of it's own destruction

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Postby Chuckman » Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:55 am

The Kaworu plugs control them directly, no soul required.

Remember that Kaworu could control 02 when the soul inhabiting it was dormant. Kaworu did not need to synch with Kyoko to make the Eva move. He just did it.

Actually the producers never thought of that and you have to make shit up for yourself. Mine is the explanation that requires no Nerv/Seele mas murder program and soul storage facility that never comes up or is mentioned anywhere in the show even though the master spy delving into the secrets of Nerv to satisfy his obsession with the truth, let's say, might notice that the organization runs a school full of children whose mothers it fed into a big wood chipper or something.
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Postby TheAdmiral » Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:23 am

View Original PostChuckman wrote:The Kaworu plugs control them directly, no soul required.

Remember that Kaworu could control 02 when the soul inhabiting it was dormant. Kaworu did not need to synch with Kyoko to make the Eva move. He just did it.

Actually the producers never thought of that and you have to make shit up for yourself. Mine is the explanation that requires no Nerv/Seele mas murder program and soul storage facility that never comes up or is mentioned anywhere in the show even though the master spy delving into the secrets of Nerv to satisfy his obsession with the truth, let's say, might notice that the organization runs a school full of children whose mothers it fed into a big wood chipper or something.


Sometimes the simplest explanation is the best! Although to me, this makes the mass-production units more like artificial angels (dummy plug based on Kaoru and fitted with an S2 organ) than EVAs. Either way, works for me.

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:37 am

Chuckman, didn't Kaworu also say that Unit 02's soul was "hiding" or something like that?

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Postby Chuckman » Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:46 am

Shut away or the like, yes. Point is, Kaworu bypassed Kyoko completely.
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