One More Final: I Need You; a parable of human interaction.

[Chuckman]

No, that's her. In fact, he is a guest in her head. The kitchen is to Asuka as the hell train is to Shinji, her personal purgatory.

[Jäeger]

It's a continuation of the kitchen scene. He picks up where he left off. Before, she met his rage with indifference. Note that she just hangs there and lets him choke her in the kitchen.

There is an important parallel moment in these two scenes. It's a brief flash in the kitchen scene and longer in the beach, but the two fit side by side. As Shinji chokes her, we see this brief shot of Asuka's expression. It's not fear or anger, it's shock. That same shock appears on both their faces. The character of the interaction is different, but in both cases it's one character putting their hands on another, one to hurt and one to comfort and the the other reacts with total shock at what they've just been hit with.

On the beach, she responds with compassion. It's an apology and an accusation and a defense all wrapped up in one. They had a lover's quarrel and she sees now the error of her ways and that many of things she was accusing him off when she rattled her long list of his faults also apply to her.

She's disappointed because his reaction is this highly internal one, a self focused one, he's still worried about himself. It recalls the hospital scene because he's no longer using her as masturbation fodder, he's using her as a crying rag. He's still using her.

Also, importantly, she tops his assault on her with a simple, nonviolent touch. That is power.

That's one way to read it. Illuminated magi know that her expression was one of physical discomfort and that she was about to throw up.

That is the main point. Even she likes him, his reaction after caressing his cheek make her disgust again. It's the same again : how hard must be liking such a pathetic "man".

[SEELE]

That is the main point. Even she likes him, his reaction after caressing his cheek make her disgust again. It's the same again : how hard must be liking such a pathetic "man".

May i ask something? Good? Okay. How can you stand a girl that constantly reminds you on your failure of humanity and her twisted way of thinking? And take into account that she not actually like him at all. If you ask me - they are better of alone. (still dreaming about a MayumiShin mirrage where Asuka stays in the backround and ask herself if this is really what she wanted)

[Jäeger]

May i ask something? Good? Okay. How can you stand a girl that constantly reminds you on your failure of humanity and her twisted way of thinking? And take into account that she not actually like him at all. If you ask me - they are better of alone. (still dreaming about a MayumiShin mirrage where Asuka stays in the backround and ask herself if this is really what she wanted)

You haven't met many couples, do you?? . And I take into account that she LIKES him (not the same as love), it's not uncompatible with hating his selfishness ("If you are not all mine, I want nothing from you"). Where do you take that from?? You are the first person I've heard that affirmation. Her frustration comes from liking a boy who only thinks about himself and didn't take her as his first choice of help. Indeed, you keep thinking about love or like in romantic comedy terms. And I'm sorry, but after 15 years, it's tiresome to make people remember ep 22 DC, which only exists (the same can be applied to the other DC eps.) to retcon with EoE and make things more clear.

If she were better alone, there was a simple choice : rise and leave from his side. She didn't do it. She stayed until he noticed her. Triying to debate this again is pointless. If she didnt want to be there, another easy choice was possible: retang in the opposite side of the lcl sea. Just as easy as that.

Plus a final scene titled "I need you", starring those two characters (not taking into account Bookmarking Rei) whose relationship triggered 3I, an echo fo the kitchen scene, reminiscence of Adam and Eve in a biblical influenced show.......2+2=4. That's a fact. Their relationship being the trigger of 3rd impact is another one. They have always being a reflect of Misato and Kaji, even EoE shows us. Have they met being 14, the result would have been the same.

I can assure you that anybody who hasn't overanalyzed the movie is the one that has understood the film the best. Or take as official the explanation of the official trading cards. Those who overanalyze the movie may don't like it, but it's way more official than any crazy theory based upon prejudges against a character. That you don't like a fact is not gonna change it.

It's funny to witness how videogames like Super Robot Taisen (one of the most important franchises in Japan) have aceppted S/A as the "official couple" (sorry, I know it's not the best word, but let's call that)......but some western otakus keep resisting.

[SEELE]

You haven't met many couples, do you??:lol: . And I take into account that she LIKES him (not the same as love), it's not uncompatible with hating his selfishness ("If you are not all mine, I want nothing from you"). Where do you take that from?? You are the first person I've heard thar affirmation. Her frustration comes from liking a boy who only thinks about himself and didn't take her as his first choice of help. indeed, you keep thinking about love or like in romantic comedy terms.

If she were better alone, there was a simple choice : rise and leave from his side. She didn't do it. She stayed until he noticed her. Triying to debate this again is pointless. it she didnt want to be there, another easy choice was possible: retang in the opposite side of the lcl sea. Just as easy as that.

Plus a final scene titled "I need you", starring those two characters (not taking into account Bookmarking Rei) whose relationship triggered 3I, an echo fo the kitchen scene.......2+2=4

I can assure you that anybody who hasn't overanalyzed the movie is the one that has understood the film the best.

First of all don't take my post's so srsly. Second point - i have gf that constantly reminds me what a lazy "tiger" i am. And boy trust me i know what tough love means especially for Shinji. But you are wrong on that occassion. I had a tough life and my gf is one of the toughest women ever - and still i'm in favour of a "good" A/S-story (for example Ghost of Evangelion)

Here a link about misconception about Asuka and her "relationships" with other people:
http://fiendswithbenefits.tumblr.com/post/88279631797/eva-analysis-asuka-langley-sohryuu

Okay i have to admit - its not 100% correct what the author wrote in this tumblr-article - but trust me if i say that you don't get her. And im not overanaliezing anyone - maybe Shinji but he isn't the focus right now. This women is in KawoShin and MariAsu shipping-mode so don't bother her to much.

On that occassion i make some promotion for the James-Bond-Girl Kaji. Just for the sake of dunno. http://fujiij.tumblr.com/post/88618003609/s-s

And i would recommend you second try because i think Jimmy (even with a little bit conflict) did the best job to describe ShinAsu thingy.

Those who overanalyze the movie may don't like it, but it's way more official than any crazy theory based upon prejudges against a character. That you don't like a fact is not gonna change it.

You impute that i do that? G* **** yo*rself if you think about us this way. ^I made it clear i thing.

[Jäeger]

You impute that i do that? G* **** yo*rself if you think about us this way. ^I made it clear i thing.

I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about that "EVA curse". It's an eternal loop.


There is a fact : Shinji and Asuka liked each other, undeniable. Not love, they are fucking 14 years old . He only thought about her along the movie, she rejects him before 3i because he is a fucking selfish guy. 3I. Something changes during 3I because she reacts to her strangulation in a way nobody expected. Kimochi Warui.END And everything can resume in LACK OF COMUNICATION.

Thanks, but I'm not gonna expend a minute in that blog. I can also write thousands of pages proving that Leia loved Luke and that Chewbacca was their father, and make it believable, but it would be a blatant lie. Before, I would take into account the text from the trading cards. At least, they are official.

[Sachi]

Alright, guys, let's pull back on the aggressive tone. No need to be so defensive.

[SEELE]

Alright, guys, let's pull back on the aggressive tone. No need to be so defensive.

Wat?

[ElMariachi]

Her frustration comes from liking a boy who only thinks about himself and didn't take her as his first choice of help.

You know, when you think about it, I don't see why people would see it as a bad thing that Shinji took Asuka the last to be helped: she shut herself in Hikari's house for three days the day after Rei's "death", then disappeared during a whole week before being found half-death, and from here she spent all the remaining time until EoE in an hospital bed heavily sedated!
Of course Shinji won't take her as his first choice to be helped, you can't get help from someone who disappeared, or is in an artificial coma in the hospital!

[SEELE]

You know, when you think about it, I don't see why people would see it as a bad thing that Shinji took Asuka the last to be helped: she shut herself in Hikari's house for three days the day after Rei's "death", then disappeared during a whole week before being found half-death, and from here she spent all the remaining time until EoE in an hospital bed heavily sedated!
Of course Shinji won't take her as his first choice to be helped, you can't get help from someone who disappeared, or is in an artificial coma in the hospital!

Thank you El

[Chuckman]

You know, when you think about it, I don't see why people would see it as a bad thing that Shinji took Asuka the last to be helped: she shut herself in Hikari's house for three days the day after Rei's "death", then disappeared during a whole week before being found half-death, and from here she spent all the remaining time until EoE in an hospital bed heavily sedated!
Of course Shinji won't take her as his first choice to be helped, you can't get help from someone who disappeared, or is in an artificial coma in the hospital!

The first time he came to see her, it was because he wanted something. He didn't care about her obvious distress the entire time leading up to that. The last time he made any effort to reach out to her was immediately after Arael.

She did snap his head off, but you can hardly blame her for that. "I'm glad you're okay" is not what you say to reassure a victim immediately after they've been raped. Just as Asuka said, she was not okay and saying that was an insult to her.

The point isn't proving one or both of them wrong (in an overall sense; Shinji still took it to the next level in the hospital) but you have to see it from her perspective. She was both throwing herself at him and trying not to throw herself at him, and the only time he reaches out to her in her our of greatest need is when he wants some reassurance from her.

It's about the subtext. It's about rolling up and saying "Hey, I know you tried to kill yourself and ran away from everyone and you're generally in the middle of a serious psychological break, but fuck that, what about me?

He didn't go look for her when she was missing or try to find out what was bothering her when she went to live with Hikari. To Asuka, she was last in his mind and heart and his overtures towards her for help are just a desperate last resort.

If anything, EoE is a little heavy handed. If she really saw inside his head she'd see all the good he did, all the times he wanted to go to bat for her but couldn't because someone stopped him. Even in the hospital scene, before his breakdown, he was exhorting her to be herself, to snap out of it. He wanted her to get better. He wanted her for her, but she didn't see it that way. There's a little bit of cheating there at the end and Anno takes the most immediately, superficially depressing route he can with their final interaction.

[SEELE]

There's a little bit of cheating there at the end and Anno takes the most immediately, superficially depressing route he can with their final interaction.

Are you actually shipping Shinji with Asuka? You mad-man Chuck ... you mad-man. I agree on you at most of the part - but Shinji first thought about Asuka at the beginning of E24. He actually thought about her - but he didn't knew where she was ... and at the time Kaworu-homokun approached Shinji. So he was busy!

[Chuckman]

Are you actually shipping Shinji with Asuka?

Seriously?

[SEELE]

Seriously?

No, but this was meant to be a Don Draper allusion. Most of the people know it as self-ironic term. What i wanted to say was this:

I agree on you at most of the part - but Shinji first thought about Asuka at the beginning of E24. He actually thought about her - but he didn't knew where she was ... and at the time Kaworu-homokun approached Shinji. So he was busy!

The fact that i couldn't care less about shipping is written down in my signature ;)

[Jäeger]

Are you actually shipping Shinji with Asuka? You mad-man Chuck ... you mad-man. I agree on you at most of the part - but Shinji first thought about Asuka at the beginning of E24. He actually thought about her - but he didn't knew where she was ... and at the time Kaworu-homokun approached Shinji. So he was busy!

My main point it's not about shipping. My point is that most evan discussions about relationships never end because Rei's talifans are not willing to accept that in EOE there is only one relationship (fucked, twisted, whatever you can say) ,which triggers 3I, Rei is out of the ecuation and Shinji and Asuka end up together. Not in a romantic way, that is up to the future, but they need each other. That is all, like or not, but that it's how it is. It's a fact. Denying even the attraction is not a theory, it's a lie. Being an hysterical fangirl "OMFG Rei is the true love, s/a hate each other, they'll never ve romantically involved, after"I Need You" they'll kill each other" " is not a theory, it's a lie. (Not Seele, I'm not talking about you ). Hating a character and preferring another empairment for the main star is not gonna change a fact.

It's the same for most people that watched the movie and only wanted to enjoy a film and I'll never call them ignorants, because an internet forum is not the Delphos Oracle .Even Anno noticed that after ep.6 he left Rei aside because he thought the character development had reached it's top. Her role in EOE is being a goddess who offers Shinji a fantasy he finally rejects, chosing a place where relationships are painful but real. No more no less. If Rebuild ends in a different way, and Shinji and Rei end up together,it's as easy as accept the fact because it's Anno's choice, the same way we did in EoE.

FYI, I liked Rei the most, but as the series advanced it was clear she was being left apart. Ahhh, I'm 33 years old, and I watched the series only a few years after it's premiere, and the movie only 2 years after ,1999(a subtitled vhs tape ) so I'm not a newbie.

[Bagheera]

I really don't think this is a Rei vs. Asuka thing. There's a lot more to it than that.

[EvaBrothers]

Shinji's relationship with Rei is on another level than what he and Asuka share.

With Asuka there's attraction, a longing for protection and that 'little' Hedgedog's Dilemma always keeping them distant while they try to get closer.

With Rei... it's more about a friendship that carries hints of a mother/child relationship. Not strange if we consider Rei's background...

Just my two cents. :)

[Mr. Tines]

Being an hysterical fangirl "OMG Rei is the true love, s/a hate each other, they'll never ve romantically involved, after"I Need You they'll kill each other" " is not a theory, it's a lie.

Yet it's bookend Rei's appearance that seems to trigger Shinji to carry on where he left off in the kitchen scene (or perhaps fulfil Asuka's last request of him).

[Sachi]

Shinji's relationship with Rei is on another level than what he and Asuka share.

With Asuka there's attraction, a longing for protection and that 'little' Hedgedog's Dilemma always keeping them distant while they try to get closer.

With Rei... it's more about a friendship that carries hints of a mother/child relationship. Not strange if we consider Rei's background...

Just my two cents. :)

I think that's actually a really great way to put it. The Hedgehog's Dilemma applies much more to Shinji and Asuka's relationship than it ever could for Shinji and Rei.

The reason I lean more toward the Shinji and Asuka shipping boat is not because I think they would make a good couple (because they wouldn't), but because their relationship accurately reflects two people that are attracted to each other yet struggle to relate to one another. The Hedgehog's Dilemma never really gets brought up directly after episode 03, but it remains a strong central theme throughout the show; Shinji and Asuka's relationship epitomizes that dilemma, and helps to deliver the larger, more profound statements about human relationships in general that the show has to offer.

[Jäeger]

Yet it's bookend Rei's appearance that seems to trigger Shinji to carry on where he left off in the kitchen scene (or perhaps fulfil Asuka's last request of him).

Bookend Rei is bookend Rei, an echo from the beginning of the series. For me the best explanation is what the official trading cars gave us : he continues what he left in the kitchen scene to feel rejection, to test if that is reality or not. And it's not a 1s glance of Bookend Rei wthat triggers the scene : is the view of Asuka and Shinji's surprise. Rei had dissapeared when he saw the redhead for first time.

"Last request"??

Asuka is back because her will to live. The movie explains this possibility just 5 minutes ago. If Asuka didn't want to be there, in the beach by his side when he woke up, she had plenty of choices and chances. The films starts and ends with both of them together. As I said before, Rei is out of the ecuation . You like Rei better than Asuka? It's fine. But the movie it's what it is and there is only one official image after the end : the dvd cover.

The reason I lean more toward the Shinji and Asuka shipping boat is not because I think they would make a good couple (because they wouldn't), but because their relationship accurately reflects two people that are attracted to each other yet struggle to relate to one another. The Hedgehog's Dilemma never really gets brought up directly after episode 03, but it remains a strong central theme throughout the show; Shinji and Asuka's relationship epitomizes that dilemma, and helps to deliver the larger, more profound statements about human relationships in general that the show has to offer.

The same could be said to the way Misato abandoned Kaji when the were younger. Rei would have been the runaway choice, a fucking clone of your mother. A lie, as it was the LCL sea. The same otaku thinking Anno despised. So she was left apart from ep.8.