End of Evangelion ending...

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End of Evangelion ending...

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Postby Margerald » Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:07 am

Ignoring the repetition, I do not understand the ending of the End of Evangelion. I finished it a couple minutes ago and consulted evangelion.wikia for information regarding it, but still don't fully know what happened. Lilith/Rei took Shinji into it/her, and a compilation of psychological episodes occurred.

Shinji determined that not only joy, but also pain made life "real" and decided that the world/place he was in was not the reality he wanted. He left Lilith/Rei, resulting in its decay and destruction. From that point on, I had no idea what was going on.

Shinji (narrating) was going on about something remaining to prove that humanity once existed, even after the sun, moon, and earth were gone. He then said Eva will live forever, and it showed the now decayed and headless Unit 01.

After this, the scene cut to Shinji and Asuka lying down on a beach with red water (I assume LCL). Rei then appeared on the water, and Shinji had an expression of either surprise or horror. He strangled Asuka who was covered bandages, and instead of fighting back, she caressed his face and 'died'. He started sobbing, and then her eyes shifted to him and she said "how disgusting."

I put this into my own words from random bits of information found from wikia, which is why I seem to know more than I actually do. Just what happened for the last 10-15 minutes of the movie? What happened to humanity, what happened to the Eva, what happened to Shinji, and what was the apocalyptic landscape all about (other than the decayed Lilith)?
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Postby Blue Monday » Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:17 am

Whoa. You've gotten a couple things back to front here.

Shinji determined that not only joy, but also pain made life "real" and decided that the world/place he was in was not the reality he wanted.

Pretty much. He actually came to the realisation that, even though that life is painful sometimes, he wanted to go on living because he wanted to see his friends again (Among other things).

Shinji (narrating) was going on about something remaining to prove that humanity once existed, even after the sun, moon, and earth were gone. He then said Eva will live forever, and it showed the now decayed and headless Unit 01.

This was actually Yui narrating. It explained some of her reasons (Alongside the conversation between her and Fuyutsuki from the series) for getting herself 'fused' with Unit-01 in the 'accident'. Unit-01 was not headless but had a full head of blue hair floating through space, with the LOL. This part also contains one of the most uplifting messages in the movie; "As long as you're alive, anywhere can be paradise."

For the rest (Information and interpretations of the final scene), we have existing threads with lots of discussion. Use the search function.

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Re: End of Evangelion ending...

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Postby Mr. Tines » Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:14 am

View Original PostMargerald wrote:Just what happened for the last 10-15 minutes of the movie? What happened to humanity, what happened to the Eva, what happened to Shinji, and what was the apocalyptic landscape all about (other than the decayed Lilith)?
This is a question in two layers. There is the "what did we see?" and the "why was it all happening like that?"

First thing to say is, whatever happened, there are parallels with what happened in the TV ending -- we see snippets in episode 25 where the real world leaks into the introspection.

The what we saw is, well, what you saw. Having said "Everyone just die!", Shinji asks to take it back, the whole Complelentation process falls apart, everything Adamic petrifies (including EVA-01 until it drifts far enough away), Shinji re-embodies close to shore somewhere presumably in Japan. In the scene of devastation (remember the huge explosion as the GeoFront was ripped clear of the Earth's crust, let alone the tsunami waves we see as bits of Rei splash down) he finds charred wooden posts which he sets up as a graveyard (with the graves as empty as his mother's). Time passes for stains to wash onto Misato's cross. Then Asuka re-appears while Shinji is looking in a rather distressed state.

What;s going on under the surface to explain why is a matter that I believe you have to decide for yourself, based on what you have been shown already and all the various clues laid out. There is an orthodoxy, but I'm not part of it.
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How long has Asuka been there.

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Postby rei9000 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:59 pm

how long has Asuka been waiting for Shinji at the end of EoE?
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Postby AuraTwilight » Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:04 pm

Probably not that long, considering Shinji showed up first.
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Postby Mr. Tines » Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:13 pm

The phase of the moon indicates at least a two week gap in the narrative. And in their perfected post-resurrection bodies, forged from will alone, it could be aeons.

But see also this thread -- http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/2270/Passage-of-Time-EoE-Final-Scene/
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Postby Oral Stage » Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:47 pm

Shinji saw Quantum Rei, thinking she was there to tang him. He spotted Asuka and assumed that strangling her would do the job. When she doesn't simply lie back and take it, but uses a psychological weapon (touching him on his face like his mother did) against him, he realizes that this is not a phantasy but reality. He starts sobbing, knowing that he can't run away, and Asuka puts salt in his wounds by laying a guilt trip on him

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Postby UBERGEEKZILLA » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:42 pm

the bottom line is end of evangelion sucks. its overrated and if it wasnt for its psychological philosophies and beautiful animation no one would care about it. you wont understand the damn movie until you have researched it for 3 months....and it ruins the series basically. What was the point in stopping all the angels and keeping 3rd impact from happening for 26 episodes ( err 24 i guess) if it was all going to happen anyway? some scenes are just unnecessary or badly paced. Shinji kills everyone and FIVE MINUTES LATER decides HEY i wanna see everyone again. Asuka has her big moment where she finds out her moms in her eva and has heroic music playing in the background.....only TO DIE 5 MINUTES LATER!!!

And the final moment of the film......good god....what a disappointment. THINK about it....the final line in the epic series is "how disgusting"...defend the movie all you want, call it a masterpiece, the animation is great, anno is a great director, theres tons of profound messages. but the movie is also terrible at explaining what the hell is happening, leaves you hanging, and goes against all the characters and story line. its a bad movie and thats all there is to it, its a middle finger to the fans and for some reason most people dont even notice that.

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Okay...

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Postby Chrad » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:03 pm

Wow.

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Postby riffraff11235 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:11 pm

@UBERGEEKZILLA I'm sure Anno would love to add that to his hate-mail scrapbook! XD

To be honest, I greatly enjoyed End of Evangelion, every bit of it. It's among my favorite movies of all time. I know lots of Asuka fans were (and still are) bitter about the way she was treated in the movie, but what happened to her made poetic sense. And the ending.... Well, I'm still trying to sort that one out myself. But the fact that it takes thought is one of the things I love so much about it.
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Postby AuraTwilight » Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:55 am

EoE is genuinely a masterpiece. Everything happened for a pretty obvious reason and the message is pretty clear-cut and easy to pick up on.

but the movie is also terrible at explaining what the hell is happening, leaves you hanging, and goes against all the characters and story line.


You're going to have to prove that last one.

Also by your definition, things like Twin Peaks are garbage. That's just not a supportable opinion to hold.

Your hatred boils down to the fact that the movie doesn't cater to what you personally wanted and was too challenging for you. Tough.
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Postby Oral Stage » Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:56 am

I think if Kaworu was more than a one episode character, his death might have been more devastating and Shinji's grief would seem way less unmotivated. I love that Shinji regressed so far, struggled so much, and yet kept trying to finding a way through. That's a great ending, but it just wasn't quite set up right.

That's a big weakness in both endings but I love them both (equally) all the same and certainly way more than just about anything else I've seen so far.

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Postby UBERGEEKZILLA » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:31 am

View Original PostAuraTwilight wrote:EoE is genuinely a masterpiece. Everything happened for a pretty obvious reason and the message is pretty clear-cut and easy to pick up on.



You're going to have to prove that last one.

Also by your definition, things like Twin Peaks are garbage. That's just not a supportable opinion to hold.

Your hatred boils down to the fact that the movie doesn't cater to what you personally wanted and was too challenging for you. Tough.




how does it not leave you hanging....the film ends just like that. Shinji crys over Asuka she says how disgusting BAM credits......we dont get to see if his other friends come from out of the sea....we dont see if the people of earth rebuild....none of that. it just stops right there.....and when i say the film goes against the whole series well, think about it....the whole reason the were fighting angels was to prevent 3rd impact...but in Eoe even after they are all killed 3rd impact happenes anyway and everyone dies. and in a matter of seconds all of tokyo is destroyed by bombings ( ok so probably almost all the people had left anyway but still). one thing i forgot to mention the opening scene....WTF!!! its out of character for Shinji. he may be going a bit nuts for losing his friends, hes always been awkward and sad...but masturbating to Asuka while shes in a coma?? theres no point to that scene and its out of character for Shinji. yes hes checked out Asuka before but masturbating in front of her while shes in a coma?? if nobody can realize how out of character that is for him then im shocked.

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Postby TehDonutKing » Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:28 am

I shocked at how anyone can not see how it's perfectly in character.
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Postby riffraff11235 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:16 am

View Original PostUBERGEEKZILLA wrote:one thing i forgot to mention the opening scene....WTF!!! its out of character for Shinji. he may be going a bit nuts for losing his friends, hes always been awkward and sad...but masturbating to Asuka while shes in a coma?? theres no point to that scene and its out of character for Shinji. yes hes checked out Asuka before but masturbating in front of her while shes in a coma?? if nobody can realize how out of character that is for him then im shocked.

I think the point of the scene was to show just how much Kaworu's death affected Shinji. The fact that he would do something so "out of character" is a great way of telling us just how screwed up in the head Shinji is at this point. Why would you expect a character in an anime to not stray from his/her "character" at all? That's a standard we don't even hold real people to.
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Re: End of Evangelion ending...

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Postby Der Kommissar » Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:10 pm

Shinji masturbating over Asuka is not in character...when he's in his right mind.

You can guarantee the kid's been doing that for a while (and Asuka implies just that) in private. That he does it right there when she's comatose was a deliberate choice to make the event carry more oomph when showing just how seriously Shinji's mental health has deteriorated.

You have to remember that EoE comes immediately on the heels of Kaworu's death. The last two episodes add artificial distance between those events and the events in the film, and make it harder to get context for Shinji's state of mind.

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Postby Mr. Tines » Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:15 pm

View Original PostUBERGEEKZILLA wrote:What was the point in stopping all the angels and keeping 3rd impact from happening for 26 episodes ( err 24 i guess) if it was all going to happen anyway?
The game was always for control of the event when it arrived -- all the verbal sparring between Gendo and the Committee/SEELE about the Instrumentality project after the Angels were dealt with should have been a clue.

View Original PostUBERGEEKZILLA wrote:how does it not leave you hanging....the film ends just like that. Shinji crys over Asuka she says how disgusting BAM credits......
The clue's in the title -- End of Evangelion. All the EVA related nonsense is over, now. They're either petrified or drifting out into the cosmos. We don't need to see any "and they lived unhappily a while after." in the Shinji BAD END scenario.
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Postby Der Kommissar » Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:19 pm

The leaving-you-hanging is deliberate, I feel. The uncertainty of the future is something Shinji has to come to terms with as a character. Going "and then they killed each other forever" or "and then they lived happily ever after and had a billion children" would kinda subvert that.

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Postby os189 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:37 pm

I was absolutely gutted when I finally saw EoE back in the day. After all that waiting and all that build-up....watching all these beloved characters die in gruesome manners, one by one. And that completely unsatisfying WTF ending scene on the beach?? I was just digusted. I felt like the entire series was a waste of my time after it turned out like that.

I have a different opinion now, all these years later. I think EoE is a brilliant experiment in mind-fuckery. I enjoy it on a purely aesthetic level. It's still completely unsatisfying as an end to the story, but as a movie, it's fun and exciting and weird.

I guess I stopped caring after a while....I just accepted Eva at face value. It is what it is, and I shouldn't try to make it something else. It's not a religion or anything. It doesn't have the answers. It's not gonna change my life. If you want to accept the series as a whole, you have to accept that the ending is crazy and fucked and leaves you hanging. If not....turn it off after episode 24!!!

Anyone who tells me "You just don't, like...GET IT man...your feeble brain can't like, HANDLE what Anno is grooving on...ya dig?" is full of shit. I DON'T "get it"....YOU don't "get it"....there's nothing to get! It's a mess! If you truly think it's a proper ending to a story, you're just in denial and are clinging to it cause you're afraid to admit the truth....it's a fun wacky psychedelic meltdown....but it IS NOT good storytelling.

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Postby Chrad » Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:15 pm

Well...it works for me!
View Original PostDer Kommissar wrote:The leaving-you-hanging is deliberate, I feel. The uncertainty of the future is something Shinji has to come to terms with as a character. Going "and then they killed each other forever" or "and then they lived happily ever after and had a billion children" would kinda subvert that.

I agree.


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