real

[Hand of God]

ok I have heard a lot of stories that the angels come from space, or that they are real angels, somebody please tell me where the angels, adam, lilith, the dead sea scrolls and who made them, and I'm also not sure why nerv needs seele if they dont like each other, so plz help, AND PLZ MAKE IT CLEAR!!!!!!

[Harmless]

Alright im probably wrong and probably gonna get yelled at, but heres my best "guess"

-God, as in the God that created everything, made a bunch of different types of existence, not unlike making different characters in a MMORPG (we'll use WoW).
-All these different types of existence where kinda like experimental or something, i dont know
-In the end humanity was chosen to be the main type of existence, or something, and all the other types of existence got mad and wanted to exist instead, or something, cuz theres something about only one type being able to survive (i.e. this town isnt big enough for the two of us)
-So imagine u play WoW, u made like 17 characters for some reason cuz u couldnt make up ur mind, then u finally chose one as your main, and the other 16 decided they didnt like that and tried to kill the one you chose.

-ummm, lol, ya something like that maybe.

-let the flames begin.

[DatDude]

Oh I just know were this thread is going to lead V_V

In the series theirs not concrete proof of where they come from.

Years after eva was releast in the sequle to a PS2 eva game released only in Japan. Their was some information from Anno about the background information on the series. Thats where that information came from.


Myself, I don't concider anything not in the series itself or the movies to be cannon.

Please now that i've informed HoG about the source of that information can we lock this please?

[Hand of God]

you just gave me the source but I dont have neither a ps2 nor can I find the game just tell me

[DatDude]

you just gave me the source but I dont have neither a ps2 nor can I find the game just tell me

I'm sorry I don't know how to find a copy of that game or even a place were you can find a good translation of the info.


Sorry

[Hand of God]

even if you told me where to find I couldnt cuz I dont own a ps2, I just need somebody to tell me very clearly without metaphors about what I have asked for

[SEELE 08]

Nerv needs SEELE for funding, and political backing since they control the UN to some extent. Gendo pretended to be Keel's friend and was married to Yui a member of SEELE, until she was sucked into Eva-01, he did all of this just to get funding. But as fate would have it he became obsessed with Yui and altered all his plans just to be with her again.
Some things you may have read aren't true
-Kaworu is NOT a girl
-"Akira" is semi-fictional, yes Misato's dad is featured once in the series, but he has no name. He never had an homosexual affair with Keel, that's just essentialy fanfic.
-No one really knows if Adam has a gender or not.
-And for the love of god SEELE are not the freakin' angels or a bunch of sentient computers.

[K2Grey]

The search function is a wonderful tool.

The angels are not meant to correspond to any Judeo-Christian angels, and neither are Adam or Lilith. The angels are the offspring of Adam as the Lilim are the offspring of Lilith. Adam and Lilith, along with the Dead Sea Scrolls, both originated from somewhere else.

Seele is an organization which seems to have indefinite power, influence, and control, and at the time of Eva their primarily concern is implementing Instrumentality. They are supposed to be in charge of Nerv. Gendo eventually decided to implement his own version of Third Impact in order to reunite with Yui (which the Seele version doesn't really accomplish), and obviously since Seele is in charge he cannot immediately go off on his own. On the other hand Gendo is in charge of Nerv and Nerv is the organization that fights the Angels, so Seele must delay their attempted smackdown until EoE, when all the Angels are dead.

[Six Winged Angel]

I believe that Adam and Lilith came from the separation of a god-like beeing
(it's some old weird theory) cause it just make sense. And rthe dead sea scrolls were my written from the first lilim...eeeerg...i'm a bit comfused now that i think about it :roll:

[Mr. Tines]

@Hand of God
- K2Grey's post covers the main points.

On the broader issue of the use of apparent religious imagery, check out the statements by various folk from GAINAX cited in the OP commentary.

On the origin of Adam and Lilith, the NGE2 game made explicit the heavily implied extraterrestrial origin (as two of a multitude of seeds sent by a Forerunner civilisation to bring life to a larger chunk of the cosmos) of the two (more - admittedly more heat than light - in the recent thread ); but as DatDude notes, some people are less happy than others to accord it staus as canon.

I shall have to dig up the link to a copy of the Japanese text - though be warned machine translations are sufficiently poor that they make tantalising reading, that only hint at what might be being revealed. But if you want a glimpse of the big picture (one that isn't just a 1600x1200 Shinji, Asuka and sprog wallpaper, that is), that's the only place where any of the secrets are spelled out for us.

@SEELE 08
It is probably bad form to disparage Reichu's speculations in a forum where they haven't been presented, and in a topic where they haven't even yet been raised.
- Kaworu is an "Angel"; and an avatar of Adam (see also below). The name is a unisex one (like Hilary is in English - or Rei is in Japanese, for that matter)
- Something broke up the Katsuragi marriage, and persuaded Katsuragi-hakase to decamp to Antarctica with his daughter, and also sour their relationship between father and daughter
- I'm not sure why the concept of the two sources of life as thereby being of necessity mothers meets such resistance (what more do people need - a report from her Ob/Gyn?)
- You have seriously misconstrued the interpretation of Kaworu's introspection with the 15 monoliths (as a council of Angels, as opposed to the other gathering of 12 grumpy old geezers).

[SEELE 08]

- Kaworu is an "Angel"; and an avatar of Adam (see also below). The name is a unisex one (like Hilary is in English - or Rei is in Japanese, for that matter)

But he's always represented as a male, not a female, for heanen's sakes I think he's in the male photo file book.

- Something broke up the Katsuragi marriage, and persuaded Katsuragi-hakase to decamp to Antarctica with his daughter, and also sour their relationship between father and daughter

But their is no evidence whats so ever in the series that Keel had an homosexual affair with anyone. He might have known the doctor but that's it. Misato says that what broke up the marriage was that her father never payed any attention to his wife and daughter.

[DatDude]

- Kaworu is an "Angel"; and an avatar of Adam (see also below). The name is a unisex one (like Hilary is in English - or Rei is in Japanese, for that matter)

Yea but he refered to as he in the series, also it adds nothing to have him be a female.

- Something broke up the Katsuragi marriage, and persuaded Katsuragi-hakase to decamp to Antarctica with his daughter, and also sour their relationship between father and daughter

Making a leap of logic from this to saying the man had an afair with keel is like saying " that guys an irishmen ergo he must be in the IRA. "

It could just as easly been him making his job more important then his family. I think Misato even shows resentment twards somthing to this effect at some point.

- I'm not sure why the concept of the two sources of life as thereby being of necessity mothers meets such resistance (what more do people need - a report from her Ob/Gyn?)

Because no detail about their gender is given anydamn place. It could just as easly by said they are male and just brought their eggs to earth to hatch.

This is just another case of some one wanting more information about this show and making somthing the up based on vague refrences in the show never intened to point to that.

Im positive Adam and Lilith were just a mcguffin device used to chatch peoples intrest and explain were the Angels came from.

Any one here ever seem MallRats? Remember the scene with the fat guy looking at the magic eye puzzle wanting to see the picture of a sailboat?

Their are people on this board that imsure would stare at that frecking thing for months and clam they've not only seen the damn boat but know its name, port its register out of, the captins identity, and sexual orientation of the CREW!

Its god damn maddining at times how people do this shit!

Their are people on this board much smarted then myself i'll be damned if they can't see this too.

This ends my rant.

[SEELE 08]

Making a leap of logic from this to saying the man had an afair with keel is like saying " that guys an irishmen ergo he must be in the IRA. "

But OMG their love is so real!!!111oneoneone

Seriously this idea is great for fanfic but there is no real evidence for it in the show itself.

DatDude I want to have your babies!

[Space Penis]

I believe that Adam and Lilith came from the separation of a god-like beeing
(it's some old weird theory) cause it just make sense. And rthe dead sea scrolls were my written from the first lilim...eeeerg...i'm a bit comfused now that i think about it :roll:

IIRC, this idea comes from that old Eva Sage dude. It doesn't fit with the explantion in NGE2, so it's not very valid at all anymore.

Still, it was a nice idea.

[TheBlueTree]

I like to look at it as the angels just being other life forms that evoled like us humans. and in the platinum series there is another (actually a bunch) evil comentary, but MG says that the Japanese word for the angels was something stupid and that angles just sounded a lot better and got a better message through n blah blah blah... i believe that comentary is on either disc 1 or 2... or 3 but probly 1. But I like to think of the angles just as other lifeforms like humans rather then aliens. and that way sounds a lot better to me anyways :)

[Mr. Tines]

MG says that the Japanese word for the angels was something stupid and that angles just sounded a lot better

The beings are referred to as shito = Apostles in the Japanese; however, Gainax made the official translation as Angel.

[Mr. Tines]

I shall have to dig up the link to a copy of the Japanese text

Here is the page I was referring to - NGE2 Secrets transcribed in Japanese.

http://homepage3.nifty.com/mana/eva2kimitsu.html

Unfortunately you have to unpick the meaning from evil machine translations like this, the section about Asuka (=ground mosquito)

[code:1]Second chilled ream
* General information
The mother of the ground mosquito, 惣 the flow * キョウコ * Zeppelin has done the contact experiment of the エヴァ. As a result, it fell to the grave mental retardation of the extent which cannot recognize your own daughter.


* Secret information
After the contact experimenting of the エヴァ of the mother, immediately from マルドゥック period, the ground mosquito is elected two as the machine pilot.


* Degree of deepest information
As for the mother of the ground mosquito the case of core experiment of the EVA portion of soul, just the part of the motherhood which even the among those loves the daughter エヴァ two remained in the machine. The fact that the mother cannot recognize the daughter is consequence of the そ.[/code:1]

[SEELE 08]

grave mental retardation of the extent which cannot recognize your own daughter

So that's whats wrong with EVA-02.... :P

[Mr. Tines]

grave mental retardation of the extent which cannot recognize your own daughter

So that's whats wrong with EVA-02.... :P

No, that was what was wrong with Kyoko; her maternal aspect was stuck in EVA machine 02 - "the part of the motherhood which even the among those loves the daughter エヴァ two remained in the machine."

[DatDude]

Oh for the love of . . .

YOUR telling me all the fuss over this damn game IS A DOCUMENT THAT SHORT!

People go one like its page after page of information, but its shorted them my damn fan fic.

I very much want this game to be forgoten first thing that needs to happin to do that is to de mistify the damn thing.

How many Japanese readers we got on this board?

I say we get two or three of them together and translate this thing. That way we can all make up our own minds about it, and those that try to use this info to back up weird ass thoeries will lose their ace in the hole.

I'm PMing the monkey to ask that this become an offical project for the sight and the resulting translation be archived in the resources section.

Anyone tired of this BS please do the same.