What is Asuka's Ideal world?

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Postby Mystere9 » Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:13 am

A world where synch ratio is dependent upon how much somebody wants it.

A world where those around her know what she's thinking and are able to act in a tactful and beneficial manner regarding that information.

Alternatively, a world where her mother and father are still together. I think all of her emotional issues would pretty much be gone without her traumatic childhood.

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Re: What is Asuka's Ideal world?

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Postby gwern » Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:36 am

View Original Postxanderkh wrote:That being the case, I ask: What would be the requirements of Asuka's ideal world, where she herself can be satisfied?


I'm glad you asked that question! Here you go, from the 2003 Shonen Ace-A, courtesy of Bochan_bird: [url]http://eva.onegeek.org/pipermail/evangelion/2003-October/000636.html[/url]

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Postby CJD » Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:58 am

View Original PostEvangelionFan wrote:I recognise NemZ's counterpoint in that Asuka hates herself more than anyone else, however, as I cannot recall if her self-hatred is an effect of her experiences at NERV Japan or if it is a result of her childhood experiences, I cannot be certain if her projected self would also have reason to hate herself in her daydream world.


No doubt her self hatred was buried as a child, and it probably festered in those sleepless nights in bed, but it was the experiences in Japan that dug it out of the hole she had hid it in and showed it to the world. Specifically, I'd say everything up till the fight with Arael was digging, and then Arael came along, lifted this treasure chest of Asuka's problems out if it's hole, and then opened it up for the world (but mainly Asuka) to see.

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Postby merri » Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:33 pm

View Original PostCJD wrote:No doubt her self hatred was buried as a child, and it probably festered in those sleepless nights in bed, but it was the experiences in Japan that dug it out of the hole she had hid it in and showed it to the world. Specifically, I'd say everything up till the fight with Arael was digging, and then Arael came along, lifted this treasure chest of Asuka's problems out if it's hole, and then opened it up for the world (but mainly Asuka) to see.


Asuka's self-hatred is pretty interesting because if she had true narcissistic personality disorder she probably wouldn't know it/have enough insight to know she hated herself. Most of her self-importance is a defensive mechanism against both others and herself, and deep inside she knows her behavior is wrong. I think she's pretty intuitive about others, although that's more speculation.

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Postby KingXanaduu » Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:40 pm

View Original PostCJD wrote:No doubt her self hatred was buried as a child, and it probably festered in those sleepless nights in bed, but it was the experiences in Japan that dug it out of the hole she had hid it in and showed it to the world. Specifically, I'd say everything up till the fight with Arael was digging, and then Arael came along, lifted this treasure chest of Asuka's problems out if it's hole, and then opened it up for the world (but mainly Asuka) to see.


Quite right CJD. Asuka's self-hatred streak started after witnessing her then insane mother's suicide, which created a huge wound within her that felt as though her own mother didn't want her. Her own father also added more salt to the wound, for he was more concerned of his own self-image instead of the well-being of his own daughter. Asuka's new step-mother may have also been a catalyst, for as soon as she entered into her life, she tried to play favoritism with her with that monkey doll that she gave her, but swiftly rejected.

All these events to Asuka's childhood culminated into the Asuka we know today: A person who wants to be solely independent on herself, but who also sparked a deep sense of self-loathing due to a belief that she is ultimately unwanted by those around her, only using her for personal gain. This is a combination that would only lead to her own self-destruction, which is just what happened to her in the series after her mind rape by Arael.

Thus, I have to agree with Alaska Slim and TheDonutking's assessment: An ideal world for Asuka is almost impossible considering the hole ( or should I say "grave") she has dug herself into.

The only way she could ever possibly be happy is that if she's learned to let go of this self-hating streak and realize that there are people around her that ultimately do care for her. However, it took almost the End of the World for her to realize that, but still whether or not she has learned that is still ambiguous.
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---------------------------------------
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Golbez: "Hmph...I merely have duties to fulfill."
Sephiroth: "Too close to the brightness, and you may get scorched."
Golbz:.............
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Postby gwern » Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:45 pm

View Original Postxanderkh wrote:Quite right CJD. Asuka's self-hatred streak started after witnessing her then insane mother's suicide, which created a huge wound within her that felt as though her own mother didn't want her. Her own father also added more salt to the wound, for he was more concerned of his own self-image instead of the well-being of his own daughter. Asuka's new step-mother may have also been a catalyst, for as soon as she entered into her life, she tried to play favoritism with her with that monkey doll that she gave her, but swiftly rejected.


Let's not forget the bits from the EoE draft: both Asuka & Shinji were avoided & shunned by their classmates.

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Postby Mr. Tines » Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:11 pm

View Original Postgwern wrote:both Asuka & Shinji were avoided & shunned by their classmates.
Projecting again via the Asuka in my mind -- I would have been most surprised if Asuka had integrated socially with her notional peer groups : the "don't lump me in with them" remark shows that it is as I would have expected, a mutual thing.

Part of the ideal world would be an assuaging of her loneliness by the companionship of people who were on her mental wavelength, and no longer having the constant drag of feeling that everyone else was out of step.
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Postby KingXanaduu » Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:30 pm

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:Projecting again via the Asuka in my mind -- I would have been most surprised if Asuka had integrated socially with her notional peer groups : the "don't lump me in with them" remark shows that it is as I would have expected, a mutual thing.

Part of the ideal world would be an assuaging of her loneliness by the companionship of people who were on her mental wavelength, and no longer having the constant drag of feeling that everyone else was out of step.


Ah, but there's the rub Mr. Tines. :)

Who does she consider to be on her mental wavelength? Shinji? Although he's the next best pilot compared to Asuka, she despises him because of his weak, withdrawn meek attitude. Perhaps her alleged crush, Kaji? Although he is Asuka's "ideal" man, he is unattainable because of her age. We want what we can't have, after all. :toothy:

Does she consider herself, or people like her, to be her "mental wavelength"? How can she associate with people on her level if she can't even learn to love herself? She claims she ultimately wants attention and affection above all else, but she rejects the claims of affection she receives in the series because she feels that those people are beneath her or she feels its not the kind of affection she feels she deserves.

She is, in a sense, a walking, talking contradiction. A living paradox, as it were.
"You're na�ve, Cecil. Even knowing betrayal and despair, you would depend on the whims of others?" - Golbez
---------------------------------------
Sephiroth: "Do you miss the Light?"
Golbez: "Hmph...I merely have duties to fulfill."
Sephiroth: "Too close to the brightness, and you may get scorched."
Golbz:.............
Golbez: Your loss can strengthen you.

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Postby gwern » Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:39 pm

View Original Postxanderkh wrote:Does she consider herself, or people like her, to be her "mental wavelength"? How can she associate with people on her level if she can't even learn to love herself?


Shinji: But, don't you hate me?

Asuka: You idiot! It's only you who is always trying to believe
that.

Shinji: Yet, I hate myself.

Rei: Those who hate themselves cannot love or trust others.

Shinji: I am wicked, cowardly, weak and ..

Misato: If you know yourself, you can be kind to others.

Shinji: I hate myself.
But, I might be able to love myself. [spoken by Shinji, Asuka, and Misato]


She claims she ultimately wants attention and affection above all else, but she rejects the claims of affection she receives in the series because she feels that those people are beneath her.

She is, in a sense, a walking, talking contradiction. A living paradox, as it were.


Does she?

Asuka:
Idiot! I 'know' about your jerk-off fantasies of me.
Do it again like usual... I'll even stand here and watch.

(Rei, Asuka and Shinji inside an empty train - Asuka standing over Shinji,
her breasts thrust in his face)

Asuka:
If you can't be all mine, then I don't need you!


Asuka (angrily):
You've never really liked anyone!

(Asuka shoves Shinji, who crumples to the floor, taking the coffee pot
with him)

Asuka (angrily):
You're all you have! But you've never even learned to like yourself!!
(staring disdainfully down at Shinji lying helplessly amidst the spilt
coffee)
How pathetic...

Shinji (weakly - getting to his feet):
Help me... Somebody... Somebody help me...
Help me... Help me... Me... Help ME!!

(throws the table aside)

Don't leave me alone! Don't abandon me! Don't kill me!

(picks up a chair and throws it at Asuka's feet)

Asuka (coldly):
... No...

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Postby Azathoth » Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:47 pm

View Original Postxanderkh wrote:Does she consider herself, or people like her, to be her "mental wavelength"? How can she associate with people on her level if she can't even learn to love herself?


That's the idea. In a world that was only her she would never have to start loving herself or changing the things she didn't like about herself. She could simply reinforce them over and over until they wrecked her. When she had ruined herself and everyone else in the world at the same moment, then she'd have accomplished what she really wanted.

Asuka hates herself. She doesn't want herself to die. Where she is that would be an act of self-love. She wants to be made nothing and go on being nothing, and for that being nothing to be all-important. As to what her goals are from there, I don't really know: does she plan to leave herself in a bottomless pit forever, or build herself into someone entirely different, or what? But in any case I think her urge to ruin herself is pretty clear.

Mind you, before it becomes clear to her (which is to say during the first two-thirds of the series), her ideal world would probably be pretty close to what essel said.

"and can I get an electric guitar and pull off a sweet solo in front of everyone I know while I'm kung-fu-fighting kaijuu with one foot? and bitches, there have to be bitches"
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Postby Mr. Tines » Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:54 pm

View Original Postxanderkh wrote:Who does she consider to be on her mental wavelength?
Nobody that we see her interact with, that's for sure.

Yes, she is a bundle of contradictory tensions -- having to be the best, demonstrably being more able than almost everyone else in her fields of expertise, clinging to that and thus being unable to let go, to unclench and not be so lonely.
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Postby NemZ » Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:22 pm

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:I tend to forget the DC accretions when considering the series.


Heh, fair enough.
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Postby SaVaGe » Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:33 pm

View Original PostTehDonutKing wrote:I don't think it's possible. She'll always find some flaw, even in a perfect world. Instrumentality probably helped her through that phase, or at least I hope so.


I basically agree with this.

Her superficially ideal world would be one with all eyes on her. But I honestly don't think that would actually bring her happiness. Deep down she'd probably still be unsatisfied. Perhaps she'd even get tired of all the attention. The only person whose attention really matters to her is her mother's.
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Postby Eric Blair » Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:42 pm

Asuka's ideal world? It all depends on what Asuka you are talking about; if it's the broken down pilot who used to be the best, her ideal world would be one where she is being recognized ads the best, with no equal or point of comparison.

Or maybe it's the girl who wants to simply be liked and wants to let go of her pride.

I believe her ideal world would be one where her mother was alive, plain and simple: you don't take out Kyoko, and you don't have Asuka become who she became because of the aftermath.
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Postby Fireand'chutes77 » Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:00 pm

A-and there's a big parade to celebrate how great I am and the mayor gives me a hovercraft! And it has a Super Nintendo inside and a Kool-Aid bar and stupid First can't come!

Sorry to break the somber streak of the last few posts, but this made me laugh for a good five minutes. I think it had something to do with the fact TV Tropes had linked me to an funny Orbitz commercial a few hours ago. :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jBE_GXeyc0

"But... We have a hovercraft."

(Sorry for the crappy quality)

As for Asuka's perfect world.... It would probably be one where she could finally unclench her shoulders, because she wouldn't feel the need to constantly watch her back.
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Postby User-iel » Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:50 am

Clever question.
I agree most with TehDonutKing and others that end of series Asuka has not the liberty to select an 'ideal world.' Asuka prior to that could choose, but it would always be a mistake. Consider that this is perhaps the only reason her life didn't collapse into catatonic withdrawal years ago. Nothing inside was particularly more tolerable than the world outside herself; hostile realist by default.
But, there's no need to stop fanwanking yet. The most interesting thing about such an answer is, in this case, arriving at it. It should mirror Shinji's own progressive refinement of his perspective in ep. 26. I would imagine a number of feints and diversions before she gets down to the irreducible truth. Hey, will somebody please try a fic of this idea? Layers of analgesia, such as esselfortium's idea, misguided philosophies such as the various 'world of me' posts, abandoning culture and context to find 'equals' by becoming "Asuka: Viking Raider Princess" or going to Valhalla, this could be fun! All sorts of displacement and OCD and self-medication could be partly justified. Until the end, where it's just never possible to get away from her own demons.

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Postby Bagheera » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:40 pm

Asuka's ideal world is one where she gets laid. :sly:

Less flippantly, her ideal world is one where she is loved and accepted. More importantly, it's one where she isn't cast aside or abandoned. This is what she really wants. It isn't what she'd say she wants, of course; she'd say she wants praise and recognition and affirmation and all that jazz. But that's just a cover for the self-revilement at her core, and that stems from being discarded and abandoned over and over and over again. If you address that directly and give her what she truly needs she would be living in her ideal world.

(The nice bit about this is that it's attainable, even post-3I. When you think about it she actually has fairly modest goals.)

This is DC/EoE Asuka, of course. Broadcast Asuka would probably want more of what Tines is describing.
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Postby Mystere9 » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:59 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:
(The nice bit about this is that it's attainable, even post-3I. When you think about it she actually has fairly modest goals.)

Agreed. Hopefully 3I would have made her a bit of a better person so that she can relate more normally to Shinji. And hey, if it's gonna take months for people to realize their forms, they'll have a bit of time to work things out before the world starts repopulating.

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Re: What is Asuka's Ideal world?

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Postby momohaha » Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:40 am

Asuka's Ideal World:
1. Her mom still alive, and hasn't gone insane
2. 2nd impact still happened and she is still an eva pilot
3. Shinji and Rei become her bff when they first meet
4. She owns every angel, and also save Shinji like 26 times in the battle
5. Saving the world and stop Seele's plan
6. Become the president of the UN in the end
7. Also successfully rapes Kaji multiple times

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Postby arkiel » Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:45 am

Ideal world... hm..

-Fast-forwarded so she's at the age of majority. (finally considered an adult)
-NERV NDA about Angel War has expired. (everyone knows how great she is)
-Shinji comes at her by himself. (so she has the option of being stupid and avoiding -his- advances)
-She's Sub-Commander of NERV under Commander Akagi, and Misato has gotten -really- fat (read this.)


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