[LAEM] It's all up in the air

[Da Games Elite]

HoV was based off an american graphic novel not manga so those points go toward the live action comic movie case not live action anime.Same thing with Road to Perdition which was good and some might not know was also based on a graphic novel.

Oh, okay, thanks, I wasn't 100% sure on History. I knew Road to Perdition was an American graphic novel, though, but you're right. When I found out it was based on an anime, I was completely surprised.

[shaneva002]

Well Road to Perdition and History of violence were done by Paradox Press a division of DC comics that focused on non super hero type stories.So not manga/anime based.I think HoV was republished later under the vertigo line which is DC too not sure about RtP.

[Guyver Spawn]

Hollywood has never really had any success with [url=http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/last_airbender/]live action anime.

The last Airbender is not a anime live action movie FYI. Several years later and still nothing has happen with this movie. I think this movie is the longest movie that is still in development hell next to the Spawn reboot/sequel and Jurassic Park 4. I hope this movie will be made one day. As long it does not have a Transformers look to it similar to the Voltron concept art (Which is pretty much Transformers in New York City).

[flapjack]

As long it does not have a Transformers look to it similar to the Voltron concept art (Which is pretty much Transformers in New York City).

If there is going to be a LAEM, it won't be for another few years. By then, i assume, the transformer fad will have faded and CGI quality will have increased or taken a new artistic direction (Cell shaded CGI, I.E. Zoidz).

However, a greasy metallic eva knocking over the statue of liberty before handing Shinji the key of Nebuchadnezzar while pissing rockets and spouting incomprehensible monologues would be preferable to a solemn 2hr hat tip to fans.

[Edit:]
a literal hat tipping pic needs to be made and ran for 2hrs. There is your LAEM.

[Rafael]

I don't really want to see LA Eva. Hollywood CAN and WILL ruin it. If they make something with the quality of the LOTR movies, I would be shocked. If they make a LA Eva, and it is as good as and as true to the original as LOTR, I will eat my underwear. I will get on my webcam, cut up my underwear, then chew and swallow until it is gone (except for the elastic). I will post it on youtube, and make sure everyone on evageeks gets to see it.

[anatrok]

I don't really want to see LA Eva. Hollywood CAN and WILL ruin it. If they make something with the quality of the LOTR movies, I would be shocked. If they make a LA Eva, and it is as good as and as true to the original as LOTR, I will eat my underwear. I will get on my webcam, cut up my underwear, then chew and swallow until it is gone (except for the elastic). I will post it on youtube, and make sure everyone on evageeks gets to see it.

*stretches*
*looks around*

good to be back, as if'n any of you remember me.

I remember when this thing actually had a chance in hell to happen. I still think it could happen, and I still think that if it does, it would be completely sweet. I think it would be hard to get a director to work on this movie without them being totally into the original.

I remember a couple months (??) ago me and the Mrs. went to go see Scott Pilgrim. I had been a short time fan of the comics and was exited to see the movie. And it didn't disappoint, even with all the crap they changed. It just REEKED of cool, like Fight Club or the new Star Trek. Sure it's an American (Canadian) comic with much lighter subject matter, but, this is more or less what I would hope for from LAEM.

I'm still on the fence for the soundtrack. Maybe redone old BGM, but no more of that cheap-ass 90's synth. Get frig'n Ableton.

also no 3D, or modern music (unless appropriately used as background noise in a scene). Don't cast an actor who does a sucky job (every child actor in The Last Airbender), don't make jokes after the first hour.

Do change the story, but don't change the characters base personality. Asuka is that annoying "I'm going to college at state!" girl, Shinji is a submissive wuss, and Rei is like a toaster. I'm not really sure if it's NOT a good idea to cast her as a toaster. Never really liked her anyway...

Do make the CG good. Don't make it like...well honestly can't think of a movie done in the last five years with bad CG. guess computers are getting good.

Keep the robots the same colour...and same # of eyes and the horn. that's about the most important parts. I just realized that I called them robots. But to the point, Don't make them robots. They are nice young ladies.

Also, don't even go near EP 7 "The Human Creation". Pick a fun arc as the basis, like EP 8-13 or 17-19. Don't follow it scene for scene, there's too much stuff and we've seen it before anyway. Don't get real into the the psychological, religious, "why are we here" and "who really am I" stuff; again, we've already done this, and if you try to add anything, your def gonna fuck it up. And no silences for more than 15 seconds...in America that's that equivalent of two minutes.

I think if the movie follows some of my suggestions (as one of the people interested in paying to see it, and therefor slightly knowledgeable on how to make it good)...wait for it..."LAEM won't be LAME"©*

*I charge $5.00 a pop per use of that phrase.

[Timstuff]

I don't really want to see LA Eva. Hollywood CAN and WILL ruin it. If they make something with the quality of the LOTR movies, I would be shocked. If they make a LA Eva, and it is as good as and as true to the original as LOTR, I will eat my underwear. I will get on my webcam, cut up my underwear, then chew and swallow until it is gone (except for the elastic). I will post it on youtube, and make sure everyone on evageeks gets to see it.

Depending on who reads this I'll probably regret saying this, but I do not believe that Evangelion will be translated to the screen as accurately as Lord of the Rings or Watchmen because the source material isn't strong enough to support that level of accuracy. I love Evangelion but I won't deny that it has flaws. Prime examples would be that the distribution of action across the series is not very balanced, and even though I understand the ending of the series, I've never been able to fully shake the feeling of disappointment I have about it.

Much like the Manga and Rebuild have taken Evangelion in new directions, I expect that any prospective movie series will be its own thing, too, and I'm perfectly fine with that as long as at the end of the day it's good. Obviously it would be disappointing if LAEM ended up being just a shallow action flick where the characters get lost between the giant robots, but for me, it'd be almost as bad if an overzealous fanboy got ahold of the movie and just regurgitated the show without bringing anything else to the table. Unfortunately, when fans become too protective of an intellectual property they many times are too stubborn about making changes where they are necessary.

It's not that unlike when anime fans began taking over the localization of anime and manga-- instead of doing their best to make a coherent translation that anyone can pick up and read, they get caught up in the particulars of Japanese dialect and end up leaving whole words untranslated just because they are not satisfied with the approximate English counterparts, and simply assume that whoever is reading already knows some Japanese words.

[MasonFighter]

Also, don't even go near EP 7 "The Human Creation". Pick a fun arc as the basis, like EP 8-13 or 17-19. Don't follow it scene for scene, there's too much stuff and we've seen it before anyway. Don't get real into the the psychological, religious, "why are we here" and "who really am I" stuff; again, we've already done this, and if you try to add anything, your def gonna fuck it up. And no silences for more than 15 seconds...in America that's that equivalent of two minutes.

I can't find it now, but I remember reading on eva.triviabeing.net that it's going to center around the Ramiel arc because it's "action packed" and "ripe for special effects"

EDIT: Oh, here we go.

The movie will focus on the first few episodes of the series. From the pro­duc­tion images it can be gath­ered that the movie is set to fea­ture “Ramiel” the cube with the won­der­ful drilling device — an episode that showed us the beauty of Japan­ese power and big guns — some­thing ripe for spe­cial effects.

[Timstuff]

From what we knew it was going to focus on the first 6 episodes of the show as source material. However, Unit 2 and Asuka were featured fairly prominently in the concept artwork, which tells me that she would probably have been introduced in the first film as well, even though technically she did not show up until after the Ramiel episode in the anime. Personally, I think it'd be a change for the better, since 1) I am a big Asuka fanboy and 2) it leaves much more screen time in the second movie for her character to be developed if she and her relationships with the rest of the characters are established in the first film. She's too important of a character to wait until the middle chapter to introduce IMO.

[Azathoth]

Part of the reason I dislike Rebuild 1.11 - and part of the reason I'd dislike any LAEM that set out to adapt the first six episodes of NGE - is because it steals the majority of its structure straight from NGE, nearly heedless of pacing within the movie or the greater pacing of the series. They ran into pretty strange problems already, making a ninety-minute mediocre recap movie with a few extremely important differences that a lot of people missed because they figured it was just a recap movie and turned their brains off. And then, with 2.22, they reaped the benefits, with Asuka's entire character arc getting smashed into ninety minutes, most of them more occupied by Shinji's Oedipus complex than with any other character...Kaji and Ritsuko are reduced to caricatures, Misato barely does any better, Gendou gets some sketchy characterization, Rei sits alone in her room and cuts herself, and Shinji whinges non-fucking-stop about his dad...and the plot cuts out at a point roughly analogous to thirty minutes into End of Eva. Anno can do better; any LAEM writer would have to.

For this reason, I'm going to put forth the bold statement: Fuck Ramiel.

Forget about NGE's plot structure. It's a monster-of-the-week show. You can't jam all the Angels from NGE into LAEM, so why bother trying to jam any of the intercalary Angels in there? Start it with Sachiel, sure, he's iconic and it's the best possible way to introduce the Angels, the Evas, the whole basic idea of the plot. But after that? Use the Angels to serve the plot structure you choose. Why follow him with Shamshel and Ramiel? Change the order around! Better yet, make new Angels! The Angel fights in LAEM are actually something I don't want to be like they were in the series, or in Rebuild, for that matter - it would be pretty difficult to one-up Rebuild's portrayal of Ramiel.

But more importantly, there's no reason to stick slavishly to the events of the first few episodes. If you add Asuka, you need a fight scene to introduce her as a bad-ass but a total dick. If Asuka's present, the whole Shinji/Rei dynamic that underpins the Ramiel battle falls apart - so establish a dynamic between the three of them, as seen in episodes 11 and 12. If you do this, you've already essentially accounted for the story-relevant roles of Gaghiel, Israfel, Matarael, and possibly Sahaquiel too - their characteristics can be collapsed into Shamshel and Ramiel, or (my preference) you can adapt characteristics of whatever Angels you like onto an Angel with new and appropriate visual design.

Sorry if this is rambling, I'm not really awake...but the most important point for anyone who would write LAEM to take away is that over-adherence to NGE is, while not necessarily as bad as the inability to adhere to it, similarly damaging to the quality of any LAEM project.

[Timstuff]

I've been working on my LAEM script again lately, and after having written about 30 pages of it and going back to watch Eva 1.11 on Blu-Ray, I noticed one thing in particular that seems to bog down 1.11's pacing, and it probably makes up a lot of the filler in the main series-- the heavy emphasis on protocol and procedure. This is largely a cultural thing I think, since in Japan protocols are taken very seriously, however it makes everything move by much slower compared to more Western-style storytelling where the action is very rapid and moves quickly, and then the story relaxes in between the action tentpoles.

I do agree that angel fights should be done on a basis of what best serves the story, and I'm all for introducing new angels (and plot threads) in the movie that were not in the show. However, I think that Sachiel is a solid angel to begin the first movie with, and I also feel like Ramiel works well as the climax since it provides a huge scale threat that requires the use of some of the Evas' most powerful and advanced weaponry. Shamshel however, I have always found to be a lame angel, and in my script I do not use it at all, and instead had the Gaghiel fight with Asuka as the middle chapter action tentpole. Asuka is introduced as being an arrogant showoff who is highly skilled, but her overconfidence gets her ass kicked by Ramiel in the third act before Rei and Shinji go on their sniper mission.

I totally agree that following the series' plot beat for beat is a futile exercise, and it will ultimately result in a movie that's likely to bore Eva fans and new audiences alike. That's not to say it has to be a totally different and unrelated storyline, but it has to be a fresh take on the source material and it has to be made with the needs of the film medium in mind, rather than the primary goal being to preserve as much of the original series' plot as possible. The manga was written to the strengths of the manga medium, and likewise the movies should be written to the strengths of the film format, as well as the weaknesses of it.

[Sharaz Destler]

I've been working on my LAEM script again lately, and after having written about 30 pages of it and going back to watch Eva 1.11 on Blu-Ray, I noticed one thing in particular that seems to bog down 1.11's pacing, and it probably makes up a lot of the filler in the main series-- the heavy emphasis on protocol and procedure. This is largely a cultural thing I think, since in Japan protocols are taken very seriously, however it makes everything move by much slower compared to more Western-style storytelling where the action is very rapid and moves quickly, and then the story relaxes in between the action tentpoles.

Protocols and procedures, eh? I think that'll be made into a plot point later on...the immensely bureaucratic procedures NERV follows ends up dragging them down even further.

[Timstuff]

It's not just Evangelion that has it, though. A lot of anime has a heavy emphasis on protcol and procedure and it's usually not a plot point. As I said, I believe it's a cultural thing since ceremony plays a huge role in Japanese culture, and in works that have a military operations theme it seems like they have a tendancy to work the chain of command into action scenes and give a more detailed look at military operations, rather than focusing mostly just on the people who are in the action and keeping things intense. This works OK in television where you need to pad up action scenes in filler since action is expensive to animate, but in a movie it bogs things down a lot.

By showing the protagonist in an action scene as being more resourceful rather than being dependent on the chain of command, there's a lot less need to take the viewer out of the action and show the people behind the scenes barking orders and analyzing graphs and charts. That means that the action scenes not only are going to come across as more intense with more tempo, but it also means that the overall runtime for the scenes can be shorter in many instances which gives more opportunity to build the story between the action.

[soul.assassin]

This flick has to be different without departing completely from the source material; no one wants to see the reproduction of the same POV/camera angle, or the action or psychological scenes, or even the dialogue. Rearrange things maybe, but the essential message must remain, IMHO.

[Nightweaver20xx]

Directors and script-writers need to sit down with original Eva staff and VAs and boil down the series to its basics elements; what makes Eva so attractive to watch? What makes it so compelling? I will also add my voice to the chorus that the film should not recap the series -- newbies won't get it, and Eva fans will have seen it before. However, it should be a TRIBUTE to Eva, inasmuch as it FEELS like Eva. It should have the same design conceits, personalities, tech talk, mecha, bureaucratic/secret society underpinning as the original. If I can watch the guy playing Shinji and nod and grin during a scene and go "that's SO Shinji" then they did it right.

tl;dr: Boil the series down into what makes it entertaining and compelling, and build the movie around that.

[Timstuff]

This flick has to be different without departing completely from the source material; no one wants to see the reproduction of the same POV/camera angle, or the action or psychological scenes, or even the dialogue. Rearrange things maybe, but the essential message must remain, IMHO.

The problem is that the "message" of Evangelion is different for everyone who watches it. Personally though, I'd rather the directors and writers bring part of themselves to the work than try so hard to emulate Anno that it comes across as hollow. I'd rather the "soul" of LAEM be different from the show's than for it to have no soul at all. At least the former allows for it to be good in its own way, while the latter is shackled to the pre-expectations of fans who half the time can't even agree on what the source material means in the first place. Invariably many fans will call for the writers' and director's crucifixion when the movie does not meet their expectations or line up perfectly with their interpretation of the series, but I think first and foremost the focus needs to be on whether or not the movie is actually good.

[soul.assassin]

Anyway, to pull off a very successful adaptation, apart from actually working with the original staff, it's critical for the director, the producers and the scriptwriters to listen to the fans for any useful and necessary input as much as possible; they must cover any bases as much as possible, down to the tiniest and subtle of nuances that could be captured.

[Timstuff]

They have to first and foremost try to make a good movie, and to do that means that you often have to filter what kind of fan input you'll actually listen to. As they say, too many cooks in the kitchen ruins the stew, and I think that they should concern themselves more with whether or not their treatment of the property works well as a film than whether or not it's 100% accurate, because the latter option is not even possible. Every fan has their own take on Evangelion, and if they try to turn the movie into a democracy then it's just going to end up being a bland mess, which is why that's never what they do with adaptations.

While producers and directors do often check what kind of feedback a film is getting online and make adjustments if serious red flags go up, they know it's impossible to please 100% of the fanbase, and if they make a crappy film because they tried to hard to make every fan happy then in the end no-one will be happy. I doubt that Anno involved the fans that much when he wrote Evangelion 2.0, and I doubt Sadamoto had much fan input on the manga. The movie is going to be yet another iteration for yet another medium, so I'm pretty sure we can expect it to combine elements from all the previous mediums and bring something new as well. I know it's not going to be a carbon copy of the series, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Put into focus, compare The Dark Knight to Watchmen-- The Dark Knight is not like any one version of Batman in particular, but Christopher Nolan's interpretation of the character and universe works great on film. Most fans are happy with Nolan's direction on the series, and he's made a huge success out of it. On the other hand, look at Watchmen-- it was a shot-for-shot adaptation of the graphic novel, but Zack Snyder still got skewered by the fans over the changes he made, and the general audience thought the movie was too long and got tiresome to watch. I enjoyed it, but it was not the smash hit that Nolan's Batman movies were, and the fan opposition against it is much more vocal, even though it made a strong effort to be comic book accurate.

Simply put, if you make a good movie that deviates from the source material in some ways, most folks will love it. If you make a bad movie that tries too hard to be the original, everyone will hate it. In the case of Evangelion, I think they're at an advantage since there are already multiple versions of Evangelion, so if they change something it's not without precedent. If there was only one version of Evangelion, it'd probably be in a similar boat as Watchmen, where a 100% faithful adaptation is expected and any change is considered unacceptable. I'm sure that there will be plenty of fans who will insist that the movie must conform to their particular take on Evangelion, but at the end of the day that's not what made or broke Christopher Nolan's Batman films, and hopefully it will not be what makes or breaks the hypothetical LAEM.

[shinji_ryoji_89]

Timstuff-I'd love to read your Eva script if you're ever done with it! I'd like to work on mine but I prefer to work on scripts that I know I could actually film someday : P

And I fully agree with the points you've made.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

I think this whole issue of fan input is just one of the many reasons why a movie inspired from Evangelion will do much better as a movie that would excite both Eva fans and general population than a movie based off of Evangelion. If the movie carries the name "Evangelion", it's suddenly expected have _________ in it, whether or not it would help a 2-hour movie. I mean, look at the fan reaction from the New Theatrical Editions of Evangelion (A.K.A. "Rebuild Series") and see how much the original filmmakers have struggled to stuff everything in the TV series in various 90+ minute features. Ran1 goes ballistic, others grumble that it wasn't "as good" as the original, others complain of the monotony of the shot-by-shot similarity of 1.11 to the original, ... and these are the guys who made the original series.

Now lets say Hollywood gets their hands on it. You know, the guys who even tried to stuff PSA lines into the G.I. Joe movie because the original series had PSAs with lines in them, or changed the color of Optimus Prime because, lets face it, red is the least film-able color in the world. (Do your own research as to why.)

The result in a LA Evangelion would ultimately be otakus and EvaGeeks (I don't know if there's a difference) sitting in theaters with a note pad and pen writting down what's different, and therefore "not good", about the movies before the film is even finished. For one, Asuka's plugesuit and Evangelion can NOT be a solid red. Red is the least film-able color in the world. If you really want to know why, watch episode 10 of NGE and notice how awful the quality of the video looks every time Asuka's in the volcano. The color red has the least amount of shades and variations of that color in both digital photography and film photography. The lighting would not be conducive to the red colored plug suit and Evangelion in the slightest. So, a color change is needed. Suddenly YoJimbo complains about the lack of visual contrast between the characters Asuka and Rei (and rightfully so), while Ran1 just convulses in the corner. (Love ya, Ran!) And the rest of the fandom gives a collective disappointing sigh. (And rightfully so.) And we haven't even figured out the whole sexual tension displayed through nudity amongst minors issue yet.

But let's say Filmmaker "X" from Studio "X" release a trailer with giant mechas fighting a giant alien, cities being demolished in awesome fights, and even some dizzying, dis-colored shots that suggest mind fuckery. And the title at the end of the trailer reads Mechanical Warfare. (<--- Obvious temp. title, but you get what I'm saying.) Heck, you can even make the pilots minimum military aged (in the U.S., 17 with parental consent, 18 without) and have one of them have cute red hair (maybe the female who's a less than a year younger than the male). I'd much rather see that movie develop into it's own presence as a smart action film among summer blockbusters than just watch a fanbase judge a film based on how "true" it was to the original source material.