Oh Look, Another Christ Thread. This Time, Judas.

[NAveryW]

〈NAveryW〉Wait, I just realized something obvious I don't think I've seen addressed
〈NAveryW〉I'd be amazed if it's never been discussed before, but I don't remember seeing it so
〈NAveryW〉If there are indeed 12 members of Seele, Keel Lorenz being the leader, that would make Gendo the "Judas", right?
〈ZapX〉no
〈ZapX〉go read the gospels again
〈NAveryW〉If the eleven remaining members of Seele would be considered his "apostles", that leaves Gendo as an honorary 12th
〈NAveryW〉And obviously he betrayed Keel
〈ZapX〉you're reaching even for an eva fan
〈Zent_Circle9〉so it seems
〈NAveryW〉I'm not saying this is definitely the case, I'm saying it seems like an obvious thing to come up that I don't think has come up before
〈ZapX〉it looks interesting
〈NAveryW〉Or that I don't think I've seen brought up before
〈NAveryW〉I'm sure it's been discussed
〈NAveryW〉SOMEWHERE
〈ZapX〉i miss the standard shooter games though
〈ZapX〉i want my 13

[Eva Yojimbo]

The major problem is that there isn't a Jesus in that equation...

[NAveryW]

Keel, obviously. He's mankind's savior and all.

[Eva Yojimbo]

Meh, this is one case of parallelism I can't get terribly excited about...

[evaunit13]

keel doesn't really strike me as a jesus-type figure other than his plans for saving mankind.

[NAveryW]

And that he's the leader of a religious sect/cult that appears to be based somewhat on Judaism (remember, Seele was originally Essene).

And that he has eleven followers as well as someone who appears to be a follower but who ends up betraying him.

[evaunit13]

i meant more along the lines of his attitude. the leadership/betrayal is set down. but he didn't seem like a friendly guy like what jesus is said to be.

[NAveryW]

Jesus will return, "but this time, he won't be as nice."

Wait a minute, isn't Jesus supposed to end the world when he returns?

Crap, I just proved that Keel Lorenz is the second coming of Jesus. NO ARGUING, I PROVED IT AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD FOR NOT THINKING OF IT FIRST.

[evaunit13]

i feel bad for not thinking of it first.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

Um... there were 13 at the table during the Last Supper. 12 apostles plus Jesus equals 13. As a matter of fact, that betrayal is one of the reasons why people consider 13 to be an unlucky number.

Although, still interesting.

[NAveryW]

Um... there were 13 at the table during the Last Supper. 12 apostles plus Jesus equals 13.

Twelve members of Seele plus Gendo the betrayer equals thirteen, silly.

[C W St. J Nobbs]

So, what you're saying is that someone is going to nail Keel to a tree?

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

Twelve members of Seele plus Gendo the betrayer equals thirteen, silly.

Oh, that's right. Sorry. It's late and I'm on caffeine.

In that case, very interesting.

[BeoX2]

Damnit. Why do I never spot the cool things?

[Sachi]

Damnit. Why do I never spot the cool things?

You mean to say, "Damnit. Why does NAW always spot the cool things?"

Kiel = Jesus. NAW proved it. /thread

[AuraTwilight]

Obviously Shinji is Jesus. He saves the world and everything.

Father...Father betrayed me!

[Sun Stealer]

Sometimes, a tophat is just a tophat.

[Halicat]

So much for those 'Kaworu died for your sins' bumper stickers then

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

So much for those 'Kaworu died for your sins' bumper stickers then

I thought that was Optimus Prime...

Seriously though, I'm not sure how much we're supposed to keep some of the religious materials within its original context. I mean, Christianity is not a "mainstream religion" in Japan like it is in most Western cultures. So Japanese creators, such as Anno, feel better about cherry-picking whatever part they like and sticking it wherever they like.

So even though Gendo (could be translated as "Words" or "Conduct", a possible reference to John 1:1), Shinji (could be translated "Son of God"), and Rei (could be translated as "Spirit" in some spellings, a possible reference to the Holy Spirit) could refer to the Holy Trinity, or at least Gendo's shoty attempt at Godhood, it's also very possible that Gendo could also be a reference to Judas Iscariot. Not everything has to be in original Biblical context in EVangelion.

But if you do want to keep the religious references in Eva within their original Biblical context, one could argue that Gendo is a reference to Satan. In Scriptures, Satan is always copying everything God does. God has a Trinity? So does Satan in the book of Revelation. And so does Gendo. And scripture also says that Satan entered the heart of Judas, keeping Gendo's parallel to Judas intact. So this parallel doesn't really fall that far from it original Biblical context in that light.

[Halicat]

one could argue that Gendo is a reference to Satan.

Hmm, that's an interesting idea. I always thought the only references to Satan in Eva were the fact that Lilith/GNR and Yui both sport 12 wings in EoE, but more in a symbolic sense to say that 'instrumentality/trying to be God = bad' and anything bad = Satan. Rather than anything Satanic itself. That and Sammael in the Opening credits.

Buuut you can again refer both Lilith/GNR and Yui back to Gendo, so, perhaps.