Shin(ji)ko - WHY?

[oOoOoOo]

Well, he has a pretty face to begin with, so there's only so much a suit can do. ^_~

[Synapsid]

http://i509.photobucket.com/albums/s339 ... vator2.jpg
Eeeeee~ Too cute too cute! This is totally what I meant. Look at him, all dressed up like a "man" and Misato all dressed up like a "woman". The traditional gender roles are so bizarre and strange that it almost seems a 4chan fetish. ^^;

Err, sorry it slipped by me back then, asking for Shinji in man clothes kind of seemed strange since he normal wears boy clothes(even if they’re a bit blousy)... but you wanted man clothes right? I probably wasn’t drinking enough water at that time, Sorry
They do look strange t don’t they, especially Shin-chan, It’s rather strange seeing him in those clothes, even if he’s a boy I bet the tux isn’t a perfect fit either...

Huh...funnily enough, to me Shinji comes off as more feminine than ever in that scene...maybe its because he's more relaxed than we normally see him...

It might be, Shin does seem to spend a lot of time frowning or making faces that distort his otherwise soft features, but I think the contrast between what’s associated with a tuxedo and his underling appearance plays a role with it...Hee, TuxShin looks almost like a girl He's always going to look like one :tongue:

Well, he has a pretty face to begin with, so there's only so much a suit can do. ^_~

Ah, I guess you’re right about that, Shin-chan’s got a girl’s face, and that doesn’t change with what he wears and Misato’s sharper frame only draws more attention to that. (Should Misato really be drinking with kids like that?)
...On that note Shin-chan’sfacial structure looks almost like Rei’s, I think they’re more alike than what people normally think. I wouldn't mind seeing them trade clothes.

[Great Genius Shinji-Sama]

Well Sadomoto-sama did say that Shin-chan's design was a male Nadia after all.

[LiLi]

Well Sadomoto-sama did say that Shin-chan's design was a male Nadia after all.

Synapsid has taught you well, young Padawan...



Synapsid-kyun:

Blushing!ShinjixPen^2xRei-in-a-dress OT3!
I would like to see them trade clothes too... I wonder if my photoshop-fu would be up to the task...

I was wondering, if you don't mind me asking, do you have a favorite version of Shin-chan/Shinji? What attracts you in particular about the character? (If you don't mind me asking, obviously).

[Dirty Mick]

If Shinji was a girl she would either look like a Rei with more pigmentation, or like a blue eyed, 14 year old Maya. Plus wouldn't it be Rei Ikari?

[Great Genius Shinji-Sama]

@Lili-Sama: To me I was honestly drawn to Shinji's non-shonen traits, to clarify I like the fact that he breaks away from just about every typical shonen stereotype and archetype, that Anno-sama made him more "human" I guess, that he was pretty much your typical messed up 14 year old kid that was put through a ton of shit and acted as such. It made me so much easier to realte to him then your run of the mill "I-Can-Do-It! Believe-in-yourself! Love-conquers-all! Blah-blah-blah" Shonen heroes. But aestheticlly speaking, he's just delicate, fragile and kawaii; you want to protect him and cuddle him in that way. Personally I prefer Shin-chan troubled, or shy. Which is one reason why I happen to support Kaworu/Shinji, you see that softness come out more I think, or RoE Shinji/Rei, you really see Shinji's delicateness.

For Shinji-ko, I think I'd like her in a dress, with short hair, and no make up; ala Haruhi Fujioka in Ouran High School.

[Sharaz Destler]

Plus wouldn't it be Rei Ikari?

No, "Rei Ikari" was what they'd name the baby if it were born a girl. "Shinjiko" is Shinji Ikari starting out as a boy, then being transformed into a girl.

[ath]

"Shinjiko" is Shinji Ikari starting out as a boy, then being transformed into a girl.

I don't wanna know how...

[CyberXIII]

Nanomachines.

[oOoOoOo]

Yaaaa Syn-chan, I guess Shinji and Rei do look similar... probably because... uh... what's their relation again? ^_~ Hehe~

For Shinji-ko, I think I'd like her in a dress, with short hair, and no make up; ala Haruhi Fujioka in Ouran High School.

Haruhi is essentially why I watched all twenty-something episodes of that. >_> They really could have (like most anime) gotten into the more interesting aspects of genderbending and sexuality, but, aaah well. ^^;

I "dated" a girl like Haruhi once. It is rare enough finding a girl that isn't straight, even more rare to find one with such boyish good looks. Swoon~

[Synapsid]

Synapsid has taught you well, young Padawan...

Ah, I didn’t do any teaching this time. Sorry I guess I’ve been lax in my responsibilities to Lilith
Synapsid-kyun:

I was wondering, if you don't mind me asking, do you have a favorite version of Shin-chan/Shinji? What attracts you in particular about the character? (If you don't mind me asking, obviously).

Hmm, well I don’t mind answering that question...Although to be honest I wonder if I really know the answer myself.
In short it would be for the reason behind why we all love the characters and show: it’s very easy to connect to them, I find many of Shinji’s traits and problems to be something I can identify with, including his atypical expression of gender roles...

And on that note I very much do like genben and androgynous characters, and Shinji’s detailed character and realistic portrayal of that issue in an adolescent just meant that he was bound to become a favorite for “what if”s . He’s already quite feminine and could work equally well in either gender so why not think about how it could be different, and I do think that otherwise minor difference like that would make a great difference in how Shin-chan is treated by others, and how the audience sees her as. To be honest I do think that things would be easier for Shin if he were a girl, even if he’s a boy to start with.
Of course there’s also the potential for comedy and reinterpreting the all the Shin shipping, Kawo/Shin is still fundamentally the same but the dynamics do change, and it’s all the more pronounced with formerly “normal” couples; Asuka/Shin and Oskar/Shinji are definitely going to be different.(I guess Rei/Shin would still be more or less the same, even if making them a homosexual couples might change a few things and make it seem more twincesty)

Now the answer to what Shin-chan type I favor is far simpler, androgyny is one of the traits that I would consider key to Shinji’s character so Shin(ji)ko still has to maintain it in some manner, that doesn’t mean that she can’t have longer hair, wear a skirt or have any sort of variation with the design but it shouldn’t occult who Shinji actually is (to be honest I like the clean, boyish look you used with your Shin-chan avie)

But aestheticlly speaking, he's just delicate, fragile and kawaii; you want to protect him and cuddle him in that way. Personally I prefer Shin-chan troubled, or shy.
For Shinji-ko, I think I'd like her in a dress, with short hair, and no make up; ala Haruhi Fujioka in Ouran High School.

I like that answer And yes, I certanly would say that Anno and Sadamoto picked Shinji's design to draw a distinction from previous shonen/mecha heros, and also to play on the contrast with what he's involved with and does against his delicate/soft design as a means of dissonance.

Oh, and the short haired reverse trap design seems to be rather common for Shin-chan, especialy when she's being Shipped with Kaworu or Asuka.
yes he's actually female in both

No, "Rei Ikari" was what they'd name the baby if it were born a girl. "Shinjiko" is Shinji Ikari starting out as a boy, then being transformed into a girl.

*nods* That's how the naming should rationally work, but somehow the greater part of female from birth Ikari-kuns end up being called Shin, Shinko or some other fan made name...even if it really should be Rei.

I don't wanna know how...

It happens in more doujin and fics than you’d think (in part because it gives a good excuse to keep the designs and characters similar) The Japanese Eva wiki actually goes through the trouble to list off some ways...It seems that Shinji breaking reality via instrumentality is the most common, but Ritsuko’s experiments and being absorbed by an angel or Yui are also common ways...there are others that you might find a more squickish so let’s just leave it at that. Vampire Kaworu bite? But unless if it happens in a particularly traumatic way I don't think becoming a girl would bother Shinji that much once the immediate shock and vertigo is overcome

Yaaaa Syn-chan, I guess Shinji and Rei do look similar... probably because... uh... what's their relation again? ^_~ Hehe~

Uh, since they have identical maternal genes and get their looks mostly from them and because they’re the same biological age I call them half-twins
I think that they really did design some sort of dualism and parallels around them, we did see some of that with Ikari Rei and their role in 3I

SPOILER: Show

There's a chance that they might become full twins in ROE...at least metaphoricaly

I "dated" a girl like Haruhi once. It is rare enough finding a girl that isn't straight, even more rare to find one with such boyish good looks. Swoon~

Um if you don’t mind telling me Would you care to divulge who was the dominant(if there was one) in the relation? You did say that your role varies in relation to your partner’s gender so I’m curious about how it went in this case

[Great Genius Shinji-Sama]

KYA~~~~~~ your Shin-chan/Shin(ji)ko pic is so kawaii, Synaps-chan!
Heh, it makes me want to try drawing some Shin-chan/Shin(ji)ko of my own.

On a similar note, what if anything do you think it would've changed in the series/story if Shinji were Shin-chan or Shin(ji)ko? Excuse me if this has been discussed in the thread before, but Im just curious as to what other people think.

[Joseph the PRPD]

I read something one time that involved Shinji turning into a girl once. Shinji drunk one of Misato beers or something and he somehow turned into a chick.

[Mr. Tines]

Shinji drunk one of Misato beers

Misato's new girlfriend, IIRC. Leaves you wondering about that Misato's past...

[oOoOoOo]

Um if you don’t mind telling me Would you care to divulge who was the dominant(if there was one) in the relation? You did say that your role varies in relation to your partner’s gender so I’m curious about how it went in this case

First off, thanks for more cute pictures, Syn-chan! Secondly, I started off as dominant. It was strange, she was actually a bit older than me, but she'd only ever dated within the "subculture", if you take my meaning, whereas by that point in my life I could "pass" (and still do) as a "typical heterosexual girl". So she was actually slightly intimidated by the fact I liked skirts and heels and wore makeup. ^^; So for the first week she was all in a state of shock at how my innocent, glittering appearance was completely different from the girl who said one night over a glass of wine (before I realized alcohol made me crazy) "Have you ever had hot wax dripped on you?"

But after a week, we were pretty much equal. It'd depend on who was more in the mood. Pretty natural. Too bad that one didn't last long, since she kept on thinking that my bisexuality meant I was going to cheat on her with a man. That tended to be what happened anytime I dated a lesbian.

I'm actually glad you asked, Synapsy-kun, because this is fairly relevant to our Shinfest. Specifically my fantasy plan to "educate" him. Even if she had been a real boy, in a male-male relationship, she'd have struck me as the "submissive", because although she was more boyish than me genderwise, the sheer force of my enthusiasm could render her a bit helpless. ^^; Hmm... how do I describe it... see, say I was able to make Shinji comfortable with the full spectrum of his gender, there's a chance that his masculinity would emerge from time to time. In the show he does have moments of protectiveness, of aggression, of violence. This girl, she would often act like my "boyfriend" in public, taking the lead, making scary faces at people staring at me, etc. ^_~ But I was more experienced than her in other areas, if you take my meaning. ^^; We would switch around and compliment each other's strengths and weaknesses, stepping up as the other stepped back. Like, if we'd go clubbing (hardly formal dance, but you get the idea) we'd switch who was leading, often depending on who liked the song more.

The more I think about it, a truly comfortable Shinji would be more like that, very flexible. He's more feminine than Asuka is masculine, but Asuka is a good example of someone who can fill either role depending on the circumstance. Like I mentioned early, one gender emerged when dealing with the passive Shinji, but another gender emerged more prominently when with Kaji, who aside from Gendo is NGE's quintessential man-man.

[ath]

It seems that Shinji breaking reality via instrumentality is the most common, but Ritsuko’s experiments and being absorbed by an angel or Yui are also common ways...there are others that you might find a more squickish so let’s just leave it at that. Vampire Kaworu bite?

Kaworu's... bite? (cue EoE Shinji's scream)

No, thanks, I'll keep thinking about Ritsuko's experiments or Misato's beers (or Hallelujah-singing angels, or whatever) when lurking around this thread ;)

[Synapsid]

Secondly, I started off as dominant. It was strange, she was actually a bit older than me, but she'd only ever dated within the "subculture", if you take my meaning, whereas by that point in my life I could "pass" (and still do) as a "typical heterosexual girl". ..So for the first week she was all in a state of shock at how my innocent, glittering appearance was completely different from the girl who said one night over a glass of wine (before I realized alcohol made me crazy) "Have you ever had hot wax dripped on you?" ...But after a week, we were pretty much equal.

Hot Wax?^^; I probably shouldn't laugh seeing as how I've probably got a worse tolerance than you and it's easy to fumble when like that. I guess the association of lifestyles with a look or the isn’t connotations people associate with bisexuality isn’ too surprising, even if it those ideas really should be on their way out. But it sounds like it was fun while it went on..., and I guess once the newness wears of things do tend to some sort of equilibrium don’t they? You tend to surprise people with the difference on how you look and how you behave don’t you? Um and do you think the boyish design is probably the most fitting for femji?

I'm actually glad you asked, Synapsy-kun, because this is fairly relevant to our Shinfest. Specifically my fantasy plan to "educate" him. Even if she had been a real boy, in a male-male relationship, she'd have struck me as the "submissive", because although she was more boyish than me genderwise, the sheer force of my enthusiasm could render her a bit helpless. ^^; Hmm... how do I describe it... see, say I was able to make Shinji comfortable with the full spectrum of his gender, there's a chance that his masculinity would emerge from time to time. In the show he does have moments of protectiveness, of aggression, of violence. ..we'd switch who was leading, often depending on who liked the song more.

The more I think about it, a truly comfortable Shinji would be more like that, very flexible.

Thanks, I sort of was wondering about the expression of roles and yes I do think that Shinji's self actualization would work like that; Shinji might be more feminine than masculine but he doesn’t really seem to cling to either role so it might be healthier to just feed both facets rather than just forcing him into a role. Oh, and even if he does have those moments the thought of a protective/aggressive Shinji is funny, probably because it contrasts with his image, it’d be even funnier if you got those traits to surface and made him a dedicated trap at the same time. Uh and, I know labeling is bad but within the subculture would your "Haruhi" have fallen into the boi category?

He's more feminine than Asuka is masculine, but Asuka is a good example of someone who can fill either role depending on the circumstance. Like I mentioned early, one gender emerged when dealing with the passive Shinji, but another gender emerged more prominently when with Kaji, who aside from Gendo is NGE's quintessential man-man.

Hmm, Asuka does dress all frilly and tries to present herself towards authority as being feminine, but her personality and behavior (and even posture and mannerisms) does seem to be masculine at times , and it very much depends on who she’s around...I wonder if her feminine behavior around Kaji might be forced or if her "mode" really does change with her environment...or possibly something between the two? I suppose Oneesan knows about this well enough to give her opinion . Since you mentioned “haruhi” I did think that Asuka/Shinko might be unusual in that Asuka looks and presents herself as being feminine, but she’s certainly more aggressive and boyish Shin-chan would probably be the waifu as far as roles go.

Heh, it makes me want to try drawing some Shin-chan/Shin(ji)ko of my own.

If you do I'd love you even more than I already do Shinji-kun ;) It's one thing to browse images but it's a totaly diffrent thing to have somebody produce art infront of you(well as much as the internet allows for)

On a similar note, what if anything do you think it would've changed in the series/story if Shinji were Shin-chan or Shin(ji)ko? Excuse me if this has been discussed in the thread before, but Im just curious as to what other people think.

There's nothing wrong with asking about it, we have had short discussions on this but “what if” question doesn't just have one answer so there’s no point in limiting it. But it sort of is easier to answer if it’s a bit more specific there ‘s a huge combination of variables in that can yield varying results ... do you mean that Shin-chan is the only one genderswaped, is it a Shinji that’s been female from birth and does she dress and act androgynously enough that others might mistake her for being a (pretty)boy? Or if it she isn’t female from birth how does it happen?

Kaworu's... bite? (cue EoE Shinji's scream)

You meant "cue Shinji's bloodcurling girly scream" right? It came out a short while after RoE1 so coffin Kaworu was in vogue at the time...It really was just Vampire Kaworu biting Shin-chan, and it seems that it had some after effects. I can’t seem to find it but this wasn’t from the same artist as that did the “vampire Shinjiko” stuff(she was always a girl in that one)

No, thanks, I'll keep thinking about Ritsuko's experiments or Misato's beers (or Hallelujah-singing angels, or whatever) when lurking around this thread ;)

And actually the other ways you mentioned might not be all that squick free, the beer was well into /d/ type strange, and experiments and angels might usually be used for trouble-free poof effects (outside of Tabby, Yui, Leli and Shammy seem to be the ones most at fault) but there are plenty of ways that it can end up as squick; one doujin had Asuka feed Shinji hormones and was rather realistic about what they did to him...but It might not count as Shinko, because it only made him even more of a trap than normal...that same doujin had a Bridget story as well-_-;

[Great Genius Shinji-Sama]

Im horribly rusty. But I might give it a try and post in the fanart thread at sometime. ;) Also, vampire Shinjiko? That also sounds very intriguing, Synaps-chan.

[Synapsid]

Im horribly rusty. But I might give it a try and post in the fanart thread at sometime. ;) Also, vampire Shinjiko? That also sounds very intriguing, Synaps-chan.

It's fine Shinji-kun you don't have to do anything till you're ready we're more than happy to just have you around to talk.

Oh and in short the "Vampire Shinjiko" site has come up in older posts it’s somewhat unique in that Shinji’s the inhuman one and Kaworu’s the normal one this time around, the story seems to play on Shinji’s darker yandere and dependent traits and frames her as being very pretty and delicate looking but really a monster underneath that. Kaworu ends up getting stabbed and drained more than once, but he just doesn't want to leave...

[Great Genius Shinji-Sama]

I wish I could actually read it. Ill have to try babblefish or something maybe. But it looks very interesting. Also, I cant use my scanner till I get a new black ink cartidge for it, and I can do THAT until my new debit card comes in the mail.

EDIT: Hey Synaps-Chan would you happen to have the Shinjiko vampire stories translated in English on you? I can't translate the page ( I dont think ) and cant read a lick of Jap. :(