What makes Evangelion so endearing?

[Xard]

a Fake goddess.

She has Lilith's soul, and she's built from Lilith's flesh. She is a goddess.

Plus after the all the creepy mysterium coniunctionis shit with Adam she ended up transcending spacetime-contiinum.

so yeah

[Eric Blair]

She has Lilith's soul, and she's built from Lilith's flesh. She is a goddess.

Add a dash of Yui for the wonderful motherly flavor, and let it simmer.

Also, not fake in that sense, fake in the sense of how Rei really doesn't exi- wait... do YOU still believe in Santa and the easter bunny?

[Allemann]

Add a dash of Yui for the wonderful motherly flavor, and let it simmer.

Also, not fake in that sense, fake in the sense of how Rei really doesn't exi- wait... do YOU still believe in Santa and the easter bunny?

I believe in Rei. Humanity's goddess. The life bearer.

[Eric Blair]

I believe in Rei. Humanity's goddess. The life bearer.

I've got some prime estate I want to sell you by the golden gate bridge then... sucker

[Eva Yojimbo]

Wait. Asuka is the Super-Ego and Rei is the ID. I don't think that really fits.

I think what Eva Yojimbo is referring to is their relation to Shinji and not so much their actual personalities.

What child of Lilith said. If we're to assume Shinji is the ego then it only makes sense to interpret Asuka and Rei in this aspect according to their relationship with Shinji because:

The characters themselves are too complex to arbitrarily allude to them as allegories for a rather simple concept.

This. The characters in and of themselves defy conforming to these symbols. However, they do conform to the symbols if and only if we consider their symbolic associations that are directly relevant to Shinji and his ultimate choice (this goes back to my "ultimate dualism" theory).

[J_Faulkner]

^why don't you two have a seat over there?

This was part of the point I was trying to make in the fan-service thread I made: the fan-service leads to a shift of focus away to sexual attraction to 2D representations of teenagers, and hence deflects attention away from the serious messages in Evangelion.

This is the biggest reason I never subscribed to that whole 3 Pilot = 3 consciousness states. The characters themselves are too complex to arbitrarily allude to them as allegories for a rather simple concept.

Not to mention that other characters such as Gendo and Misato also contribute to this so-called Super-Ego.

[Great Genius Shinji-Sama]

^ WHY SO SERIOUS?

I'm not saying that we shouldn't care if Eva has a "message" or not but IMO the fanservice is part of what MAKES it endearing. It's like a movie with good F/X or music, or cinematography. Fanservice is a part of Anime, which i what Eva is. And in a sense I agree with what others had said that the fanservice is in a way part of the message as its only in the first few episodes and the action arc before it takes the nose dive into what we call "The Bitter End" arc. The story needs those light hearted slice of life fanservice laced episodes to lure the viewer into the dark parts of the series where the actual message then shocks the viewer like a bucket of cold water on the balls delivering the most impact.

[Joseph the PRPD]

^why don't you two have a seat over there?

This was part of the point I was trying to make in the fan-service thread I made: the fan-service leads to a shift of focus away to sexual attraction to 2D representations of teenagers, and hence deflects attention away from the serious messages in Evangelion.

You really need to learn that they're some posts that you are not supposed to take seriously.

[Eva Yojimbo]

the fan-service leads to a shift of focus away to sexual attraction to 2D representations of teenagers, and hence deflects attention away from the serious messages in Evangelion.

I would say that deflection is entirely on purpose; Anno doesn't want us seeing past the superficial surface of the series in the first half. That's what the second half is for and what makes it such a jolt when it comes. Plus, the 2D depiction of any fan-service (which I'm not convinced even happens) is certainly frustrated by the 3D-ness of the characters as the series progresses.

Not to mention that other characters such as Gendo and Misato also contribute to this so-called Super-Ego.

True but the Shinji/Rei/Asuka triangle is the single most important relationship in the series because almost every primary theme is carried through that relationship either literally or metaphorically.

[J_Faulkner]

^ WHY SO SERIOUS?

You really need to learn that they're some posts that you are not supposed to take seriously.

How was I being too serious? This thread was about how Evangelion is endearing to people and some people cited fan-service elements, and I just noted how this supports the hypothesis that fan-service drives attention away from the more serious messages. Sure, the comments may not be totally serious, but that doesn't take away the fact that the focus of the thread shifted towards fan-service elements.

Like I said, overall, the fan-service elements drive away potential viewers and thus decreases the probability of Evangelion reaching a wider audience, as well as being part of a decrepit way of trying to attack otakudom.

But let's get this thread back on track.

What is so endearing about Evangelion? I wouldn't say I find Evangelion "endearing", but the theme song is OK.

[Xard]

^ WHY SO SERIOUS?

You really need to learn that they're some posts that you are not supposed to take seriously.

How was I being too serious? This thread was about how Evangelion is endearing to people and some people cited fan-service elements, and I just noted how this supports the hypothesis that fan-service drives attention away from the more serious messages. Sure, the comments may not be totally serious, but that doesn't take away the fact that the focus of the thread shifted towards fan-service elements.

you know, people here call liquified remains of human bodies as Tang - then there's whole femKaworu business and all rule 34 pulled on Evas themselves, jokes about gravemarker penises etc.

I wouldn't take many things said here too seriously: especially in this section which happens to be "chit-chat"

[Joseph the PRPD]

EDIT: Xard said it before I did.

[Merridian]

This thread was about how Evangelion is endearing to people and some people cited fan-service elements, and I just noted how this supports the hypothesis that fan-service drives attention away from the more serious messages.

I suppose it is kinda counter-intuitive that a show which warps fanservice so severely can still be appreciated for its “fanservice” aspects, but I guess that just goes to show how good Sadamoto was at designing character models. And as much as it might be a "turn off" to some folks, there really is an artistry involved in drawing attractive-yet-cartoonish characters. It's a lot harder you'd think, especially since the 'toons are 'attractive' without appealing to a photorealistic sense of style. It’s pretty rare that something can successfully find that balancing point IMO, but seeing as how successful hentai & ecchi are I suppose I’m a minority in this respect.

[Ironfoot]

There was a time when I found the show endearing because I was of a similar mindset when I first watched it. I could identify with the characters and troubleshoot my problems with their own, trying to create a better future for myself and for the Shinji and Asuka in my mind. But as I grew and understood myself better, that endearment wore off and changed into one of respect, a work of art that helped me grow through the years. Now, it's not so much that I don't like Shinji or Instrumentality, it's more like looking into a window of the past, of who I was and comparing it to who I am now.

So in short, people who watch Evangelion do so because typically, it represents an aspect of themselves. This is why they either love it or hate it so much.

[Teague]

Well, if you ask me, it all boils down to alternate interpretation, that is to say, the unstated elements that seem apparent to an individual viewer, but then you learn of an equally valid (or at least thought provoking) alternate point of view that implores you to reanalyze what you previously took for granted.

In other words, it gets you thinking about the show long after you've seen it, and the more you're thinking about it, the more unforgettable it thus becomes in your mind henceforth the greater impression it leaves upon most viewers.

[Gamer_2k4]

I like NGE, not so much for what it is, but rather for what it represents to me, personally. NGE was my first "serious" anime (my previous experience was limited to Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh!), so it introduced a heck of a lot of new concepts and ideas to me that I had never before considered:

* It is possible to coat a serious, intricate plot with a heavy layer of action (and consequently make it more palatable).
* Good characters don't have to be likable.
* Imagery without meaning (all the crosses, etc.) still is pretty darn cool.
* Mecha don't have to be mecha.
* The more interconnected everything is, the more interesting a story ultimately is. This may seem common sense, but when you think about how NGE is actually Gendo's story, not Shinji's (similar to how Star Wars revolves around Anakin, not Luke), it becomes apparent that EVERYTHING somehow relates back to him.
* Negative human emotions and actions are more thought-provoking than positive ones.
* A good artist goes a LONG way in making a product cool. Example: Three of my four NGE wall scrolls feature art by Sadamoto, and I really don't like the art in the original series.
* Quiet characters are intriguing.
* Classical and orchestral music do an excellent job of setting the mood you want.
** Corollary: Joyful music (like the Hallelujah Chorus) can indicate an...essence, I guess, rather than an emotion. I don't feel like that music is out of place at all in that scene.
* Making the viewer/reader/whatever think will be appreciated by them later.

I'm sure there's more, but the bottom line is this: NGE influenced my life quite a bit. I look back on the show itself and think it looks dated and ugly, and I'm tempted to say, "Oh, it's not that great," but then I look around at my eleven manga volumes, four wall scrolls, 2.6 gigs of pictures, the common theme of most of my desktop backgrounds, the only AMV I've made, the story I'm writing (whose genesis was inspired by NGE), and the only anime-related forum that I post on, and it's clear that there must be SOMETHING special about it.

[Combs]

People extrapolating themselves onto Shinji, basically.

Maybe Gendo is just that sexy.

[Sachi]

People extrapolating themselves onto Shinji, basically.

Yeah, that's one of the reasons I really liked the show when I first viewed it; I could really relate to Shinji and what he was dealing with socially. But when I marathoned it yesterday with my brother, I didn't feel the same connection to the characters as I did before. This could be because I was watching it not to watch it but to analyze it (and since I've long understood the feelings of the characters, I got nothing new from it); it may be that I was watching it with another person, so my more introvert feelings didn't surface; perhaps I've changed as a person since first watching it, no longer being able to relate to Shinji, and I enjoy the show purely from an analytical standpoint now; or maybe it was a mixture of all of the above.

In any case, people relating to Shinji may be a huge factor in why Evangelion is so endearing, it certainly was for me at first, but my feelings for the show now shows that there's multitudes of reasons and that it's all based on the viewer.

[LordCaldwell]

Ok. If the id handles simple things like reproduction, whereas the super-ego handles things like desire, that would make the super-ego materialistic and the id much more simple and basic. I meant the comparison in this way, not from the characters perosonal relationship with Shinji. Seeing how much stuff Asuka owns and her aggressive, somewhat effervecent personality would make her te super-ego, and seeing how simply Rei lives an how she rarely draws attention to herself, leading a low key life would make her the id. I may be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure I am correct in this way.

[Eva Yojimbo]

Ok. If the id handles simple things like reproduction, whereas the super-ego handles things like desire, that would make the super-ego materialistic and the id much more simple and basic.

The ID is basically a representation of our instinctual wants and desires and the super-ego is the aspect aware of social conventions and norms that we "should" conform to. The super-ego is usually what conflicts with the Id and it's the ego that makes the choice between the two. Again, read these:

The Id comprises the unorganised part of the personality structure that contains the basic drives. The id acts as according to the 'pleasure principle', seeking to avoid pain or unpleasure aroused by increases in instinctual tension.

The Super-ego aims for perfection[6]. It comprises that organised part of the personality structure, mainly but not entirely unconscious, that includes the individual's ego ideals, spiritual goals, and the psychic agency (commonly called 'conscience') that criticises and prohibits his or her drives, fantasies, feelings, and actions.

You did get it right that Rei is Id and Asuka is super-ego though.