Subtle things that you realized about NGE on deep analysis

[Evafan]

That's cool freakyfilmfan I never thought of that.

[cambaprecoz]

I love this thread, it beat the crap outta my mind before it blew it and kicked it and runned it to the ground.
This is why I love Eva!

[FallenTabris]

I think being naked mainly coincides with the characters being alone so they can soliloquy (the only exception being the Misato/Kaji sex scenes). I don't think clothing has any special symbolic value, but if you think that, I'll add that everyone's clothes lying around after their ATFs are gone in EoE serve as an extension to that metaphor.

The symbols that really bashed me over the head once I got it were:
*Misato's father's cross, a "burden" passed from the dying to the living in each impact. it would be interesting to know if the "cross to bear" analogy eixsts in Japanese literature.

*The entry plog-womb symbolism: amniotic fluid (LCL) and an umbilical cable, right there inside a surrogate mother (Eve) for lost children.

*spiral > seed > shield > spear (with a spiral motif)
<_<

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

I think being naked mainly coincides with the characters being alone so they can soliloquy (the only exception being the Misato/Kaji sex scenes). I don't think clothing has any special symbolic value, but if you think that, I'll add that everyone's clothes lying around after their ATFs are gone in EoE serve as an extension to that metaphor.

True. And Misato does soliloquy to Shinji about her dad in episode 12, and they're both clothed. I'll just give my reasons for thinking that way.

Asuka uses being an Eva pilot as means of identification. She wants to be known as an Eva pilot, not as a girl who has had a really messed up past. The little bits from her plug suit she's almost always wearing on her head kind of mirror that.

I think it was sufficiently explored in episode 7 as well, with Misato's many different wardrobes she'd put on depending on what parts of herself she wanted to hide from others; being really sexy, really professional, or just really sloppy. Shinji speaks of this to Toji and Kenskue in the episode as well, and they reply that it shows that she's "family", and doesn't mind showing aspects of herself to him that she wouldn't reveal to others. Then again in episode 12 with the scar on her chest which she kinda has to hide for the sake of modesty. But still, her clothing "masks" that personal aspect of herself, and she only let all of two people view that scar (Kaji and Asuka).

Then there's Ritsuko's hair dye (I'm going to include that as part of a "mask") trying to separate her from looking like her mother, who she hated. Gendo's glasses are constantly blocking his emotions. Then Kaworu wanting to get to know Shinji, so he gets naked in a tub with him. Asuka in the tub in episode 24 wanting to die after failing to fulfill her "mask" as an Eva pilot (and she could be taking steps towards that by possibly cutting herself, depending on where your opinions about that shot lie).

I don't know. Maybe I'm reading too much into it. But I find it interesting.

[Legendary]

Misato does soliloquy to Shinji

No, she doesn't. She might monologue at him, but a solilioquy involves more talking to the audience.

A lot of much more accurate and awesome stuff

All of this is stuff I've never noticed before... but I like it, and find it very insightful. Nice job.

Makes one wonder if Seele's stripping Ritsuko down was less rape and more metaph- Nah. That was probably rape. :P

[Great Genius Shinji-Sama]

Very juicy scene.

[Eva Yojimbo]

But I find it interesting.

Good analysis. Anyone who's read Shakespeare probably knows where you're coming from (that's all I could think of while I was reading that); he made a big deal about people's identity/persona being wrapped up in their clothing and how people could literally change their life with a change of clothing (Henry IV pt. 2 being a famous example).

Misato does soliloquy to Shinji

No, she doesn't. She might monologue at him, but a solilioquy involves more talking to the audience.

Genuine soliloquies are a real rarity in film; probably because voice-over narration allows you to keep the visual aspect. But I think NGE comes as close in film/animation to soliloquies as you can get. Many of those mindfuck moments and EoTV it's hard to succinctly put into a category. The characters are often talking to themselves, or you have a lot of characters talking about the same thing and finishing sentences; the latter is especially peculiar, because it's not dialogue since there's no real conversation, and it's not a monologue since there's more than one voice... It really stresses the point about "all becoming one" just through the audio.

[FallenTabris]

yeah, eva certainly messes with some narration norms. there's no doubt you could consider Rei's 14 poem as a soliloquy.

[Reichu]

I've noticed the clothing thing myself. I don't think it's a consistent motif or anything, but there are definitely times when it comes on strong. (For another nice example, check out the 'LCL Sea' scene in EoE.)

Subtle things I've noticed about NGE over the years are really far too many to list. The production is infested with nuance and detail. (But there's also that "Rorschach Ink Blot" aspect... Is what you're seeing really there at all?)

[THE Hal E. Burton 9000]

Subtle things I've noticed about NGE over the years are really far too many to list.

eye c wut u did THAR^

[FallenTabris]

Oh, there's another big one I just thought of.

the EoE sandbox scene is a microcosm of Eva (and possibly of Anno's approach to it as well). Shinji's enjoying building something (a giant pyramid with EVA on it) with other children (I still don't know why the others are dolls). They leave, he destroys what they created together (third impact). then, ashamed, he tries to rebuild it (end of EoE). I probably posted this elsewhere.

Extending the idea to anno doesn't work so well since he seemingly intended such a dramatic ending from the very proposal, but..

[Great Genius Shinji-Sama]

Very insightful, FT. That does seem to fit. Its just me maybe, but I always thought the other two children/dolls were Misato and Asuka or they were meant to be representations of them. He had built up relations with Asuka and Misato - more then anyone else anyways - then Asuka goes into a coma and Misato was cold to him, then he becomes so apathetic that he lets 3I happen, and in the end Yui leaves him to try to put eveything back together. (He connects/interacts with the other children, builds the pyramid [NERV base], the others leave him, then he destroys the sandcastle, and rebuilds it.) Also, you know that Yui disappeared when he was little, and when the others leave him you hear them calling out to "Mama!" when Shinji has no mother - another one of his major issues. But I what I dont get, is what he meant about when he first started playing the cello Maybe you can help enlighten me about that?

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

Oh, there's another big one I just thought of.

the EoE sandbox scene is a microcosm of Eva (and possibly of Anno's approach to it as well). Shinji's enjoying building something (a giant pyramid with EVA on it) with other children (I still don't know why the others are dolls). They leave, he destroys what they created together (third impact). then, ashamed, he tries to rebuild it (end of EoE). I probably posted this elsewhere.

Extending the idea to anno doesn't work so well since he seemingly intended such a dramatic ending from the very proposal, but..

Probably dolls because Gendo sees everyone he works with as simple tools. Shinji is mimicking the kind of power his dad had, and we see his relationships with other portrayed by dolls to represent Gendo's relationship to the people around him. The most obvious of which was Rei, who was even called a doll. And Asuka in the TV series simply refused to be her mother's "doll" (or anyone else's) and try to be independent on her own. In the end though, we see that she was just as much a "doll" as Rei by playing right into Nerv's plan. Strangely though, Rei was the one that ultimately cast away the role of a doll (or puppet) by rejecting Gendo and merging with Lilith in EoE. This mirrors the dolls at the sandbox leaving Shinji alone with his sand so they could be with their mom.

[Iam(not)toji]

The 'do you want to become one with me?' sequence in episode 19, when they all leaned forward at the same time, it was Yui's hair color. Shinji has a serious oedipus complex.

[FallenTabris]

I feel Shinji's inability to swim and choosing not to progress with playing the cello were meant to be aspects of his defeatist approach to living. The cello-playing is only mentioned one time in the show other than the episode where Asuka compliments him on it (or in Death).

Well, there is a large "dolls" theme used in the series. Rei ("I'm not your puppet"), Asuka's bad memories with the surrogate-child doll, as well as her hating Rei by that association, not knowing Rei really is a clone. Ritsuko: "We're probably just dolls to God." Whether it's all meant to tie into the sandbox scene, who knows.

This mirrors the dolls at the sandbox leaving Shinji alone with his sand so they could be with their mom.

That's Misato. I don't feel gendo has anything to do with this--it's just Rei/Asuka/Misato leaving all at once.

The 'do you want to become one with me?' sequence in episode 19, when they all leaned forward at the same time, it was Yui's hair color.

I'm nearly positive I remember red/blue hair in that scene.

[Iam(not)toji]

I'm nearly positive I remember red/blue hair in that scene.

Can someone get a screenshot for us?

[MatrixRefugee]

The one thing that stuck out for me were all the shots, significant or not, with *hands* visible, whether it's the Gendo Pose, or Misato grabbing Shinji's head in a way that mirrors Sachiel grabbing Unit 01's head, or Fuyutsuki facepalming when the kids are embarrassing him again, or the Jet Alone guy's vast shrug with hands palm upward, or GNR's hands cupped around the Black Moon, or... or... or...

[FallenTabris]

"Then what are your hands for?" gotta love how a motif is re-used, but only mentioned once in the entire series. it makes almost every sentence in the script for any episode feel like it could have a gem of a subtle reference in it.

Here's a screenshot (sorta):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hdorBZxZHM#t=6m36s

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

The one thing that stuck out for me were all the shots, significant or not, with *hands* visible, whether it's the Gendo Pose, or Misato grabbing Shinji's head in a way that mirrors Sachiel grabbing Unit 01's head, or Fuyutsuki facepalming when the kids are embarrassing him again, or the Jet Alone guy's vast shrug with hands palm upward, or GNR's hands cupped around the Black Moon, or... or... or...

Didn't notice that one before. But now that you mention it...

Interesting how Gendo uses both his hands and his outfit (glasses) to hide his expressions from everyone else. Whereas before he joined NERV, he used his hands for fighting and didn't wear any glasses. More of the "Hedgehog's Dilemma" portrayed there, I believe.

[FallenTabris]

it's not indicated he ever did any fighting. for all the audience knows, he was beaten up right before he was introduced.