Kiel (Keel) and his health problems

[Sailor Star Dust]

Okay, so I searched and I couldn't find anything (if there is a thread about this topic it could always be merged I guess) but is there ever anything canon or otherwise that explains WHY Kiel is part uh cyborg? And/or why he has that spine and visor of his?

I don't remember coming across anything in canon that gave any reasons why, but it's something I've been always curious about. My guess is he got into some type of accident before or shortly after 2nd Impact...

Kiel in a paper sometime after 2I


Anybody have any thoughts on this?

[Holy Diver]

My guess is that they are "improvements" that my have helped to extend his life beyond the normal age. He might have had the luxury of being able to afford the first cyborg implants due to his influence.

Or it could just be a symbol for the inhuman nature of Seele's work.

[mrpanda]

Because cyborgs are cool and evilll !

[Sachi]

My guess is that they are "improvements" that my have helped to extend his life beyond the normal age. He might have had the luxury of being able to afford the first cyborg implants due to his influence.

That was my guess too.

Or perhaps he did have health problems, and those are the only things keeping him alive. I dunno.

[UrsusArctos]

AFAIK, there's nothing in canon about why he's a cyborg. Like Sachi and Holy Diver suggested, the implants were probably to prolong his life. He could be in his seventies in that photograph, and he does appear to be in his mid-late eighties in series, if not older. His internal organs are probably all worn out.

Notice that we have no indication whatsoever that Keel is a cyborg (That visor doesn't count) until he announces his satisfaction with Third Impact and turns to tang. It suggests that he was cyborgized so that he could live long enough to see 3I/Instrumentality carried out. If he died before the event, he'd probably be left out of instrumentality even if it did succeed. (But that still doesn't rule out an accident entirely).

[Sailor Star Dust]

That makes a lot of sense.

Anybody else feel like throwing their hat into the ring?

[MatrixRefugee]

My guesses have been:

1.) He was diagnosed with some kind of terminal illness (In a fanfic I'm working on, I speculate it was spinal cancer) and wanting to live long enough to see 3I, he had the cyborg parts installed to eliminate the condition.

OR

2.) An attempt was made on his life and the only way to keep him alive was to cyborg-ize him.

[V]

this is colored by seeing Ghost in the Shell 3: Solid State Society, but I think its a commentary on the "Graying of Japan", which is worse than it is here: the old are doing whatever they can to prolong their lives at the expense of the young, even unnaturally

[TheAyanamiOtaku]

I agree with Sachi and Holy Diver. Keel wanted to see his dream fufilled.

[Action_Bastard]

I think Sachi and Holy Diver got it on the ball. No need to discuss this anymore, right?

[Zeak]

Could be just his age getting the best of him. I think given the fact that we don’t exactly know how old he is this is plausible

With unrest in the country, no large-scale search could be undertaken. Sellers attempted to get the Syrians to help him locate the cave, but they demanded more money than he could offer. Finally, Cave 1 was discovered, on January 28, 1949, by a United Nations observer.

The Dead Sea Scrolls went up for sale eventually, in an advertisement in the June 1, 1954 Wall Street Journal.

If that theory of mine were true (unlikely) than Yes I would agree with TAO

[V]

he's not "the Wandering Jew" or something, it's just that he's a greedy old but wealthy and powerful man who uses top-of-the-line cybernetic implants to extend his life as long as possible

[Zeak]

he's not "the Wandering Jew"

I said United Nations observer not wandering Jew

[Reichu]

I don't really see why he would replace most of his body with all those unwieldy cybernetic parts unless it were required. It's not as though he's decrepitly old in 2001. Injury or wasting/terminal disease have been my favorite "motivators" for him.

We talked about Kiel a bit back in the ANF "Adam's embryo..." thread, but it is so batshit insane I'm literally getting dizzy trying to sort out the relevant stuff from the "zOmG hYpOmAnIa iS fUn!!!" stuff. If you are very brave and you want some lulz at my expense, start hunting right around here, where Seele08 shows up.

I think its a commentary on the "Graying of Japan"

Kiel is a German, you know.

[Sharaz Destler]

I don't really see why he would replace most of his body with all those unwieldy cybernetic parts unless it were required. It's not as though he's decrepitly old in 2001. Injury or wasting/terminal disease have been my favorite "motivators" for him.

You make him sound like Davros or something.

Kiel is a German, you know.

V's point still stands, IMO. It's not really about what nationality the character is, it's what the character stands for that grants him or her a sense of resonance with the audience.

[master_lloyd]

You make him sound like Davros or something.

"I grew eva from my own cells!"

/Doctor Who reference

[Reichu]

You make him sound like Davros or something.

I don't know anything about Dr. Who.

V's point still stands, IMO.

It does? We have only a single cut of information to go by here. And all we can see is that most of Kiel's body is cybernetic. We don't know why, we just know that it is. Therefore, you really can't look at that cut and go, "Oh, Kiel replaced most of his body with cybernetics because he's hellbent on artificially prolonging his life, and therefore this is a commentary on the 'Graying of Japan', even though he's German, and Kiel's cyborg nature totally can't be interpreted any other way."

Now, here's a better way to look at it, IMHO: "He's more machine now than man." Consider the thematic ramifications of this with respect to the rest of the show. One thing that comes to my mind is a "technological augmentation makes us less human" angle, but there are probably a few different directions you can go with it.

It's not really about what nationality the character is, it's what the character stands for that grants him or her a sense of resonance with the audience.

If a point is being made about a specific culture, it seems a bit more intuitive to use characters belonging to that actual culture to make it... Either that, or have cultural metaphors/allegories firmly established by the context ("the blue fairies represent Hispanics and the green elves represent the French, as indicated by..."), which isn't really done here. Japanese are Japanese, Americans are Americans, Germans are Germans, American-German-Japanese hybrids are American-German-Japanese hybrids...

[TheAyanamiOtaku]

did Keel furnish his creaking old brain with cybernetic parts, and did the upgrades, if they existed, affect his sense of logic and morality?

And, is the visor just more eye candy?

[MatrixRefugee]

did Keel furnish his creaking old brain with cybernetic parts, and did the upgrades, if they existed, affect his sense of logic and morality?

And, is the visor just more eye candy?

I've been studying Reichu's composite shot of Kiel's remains post-tanging, and to me, it looks like everything left behind (!) is what would be below his neck or his shoulders, so my guess is, there's a chance he might still have what his mother gave him from the shoulders upwards. Puts me in mind of "The Head" in C.S. Lewis's "That Hideous Strength", although in that case, the character was the severed head of a megalomaniac doctor who was guillotined for murder, but was hooked up to an elaborate, yet immobile life support system. The visor, I suspect, may be to enhance or restore his vision.

[V]

...given that Gainax are a bunch of Clarke fanatics, think that was on purpose?