Eva Meta-science and Morals

[Eva Yojimbo]

Topic was split from a currently locked thread since a cool-down period was given. Play nicely with this one, please. ~SSD

To all those that feel I have committed some sort of crime by starting this discussion, I apologize if I have committed some sort of forum faux pa (forgive the spelling) but I am fairly new to Evageeks and I just didn't think of starting a new thread.

No faux pa. This actually makes for an interesting (and really new) discussion. The complications in the NGE universe just makes an already subjective question even tougher to judge. How do you reconcile meta-science and the morality of incest?

[Sailor Star Dust]

How do you reconcile meta-science and the morality of incest?

Excellent question.

I honestly don't know myself, but I suppose that meta-science somehow makes this a non issue?

After all, it wouldn't be the first time that things related to science aren't exactly as they are in Eva...for instance, physics in Eva tend to be rather....yeah.

[slothen]

assuming this is about rei-shinji incest... societal aversion to incest, and its status as a taboo that crosses cultural lines, indicate that it is a behavior that is universally unfavored by evolution. the basis for this is in genetics, but behaviorally, individuals cannot always distinguish their relatives, for example, siblings separated at birth. The natural aversion to sex with a relative is based not on genetics, but rather on the societal relationship with that person.

in other words, Rei and Shinji weren't raised as brother/sister, so its AAAAWWWWWRIIIIIIIIGHT.

[Sailor Star Dust]

This was split from that topic, but what I fail to understand is this:

Whether or not there is social stigma with incest, there's still the case that inbreeding really screws up the family's genepool. Children born from incest are not only of lesser intelligence (or some such thing), but they also have several health complications as a result.

How can anybody honestly think that THAT is alright?

[BobBQ]

How can anybody honestly think that THAT is alright?

The same way they think a girl raping another girl with a tanto scabbard is alright.

[slothen]

Whether or not there is social stigma with incest, there's still the case that inbreeding really screws up the family's genepool. Children born from incest are not only of lesser intelligence (or some such thing), but they also have several health complications as a result.

who said anything about them having kids? even if they do, its nothing a bit of amniocentesis and FALCON PUNCH can't cure.

[CorporalChaos]

The problem here is assuming that Rei is *closely* related to Shinji, like brother/sister, cousin/cousin, but considering how the clone was made, Yui DNA with Angel DNA and whatever else they threw in to stablize the genome, I'd say its probably second or third cousins at best, beastiality at worst...


Oh god, I opened a whole 'nother can of worms...

[NAveryW]

in other words, Rei and Shinji weren't raised as brother/sister, so its AAAAWWWWWRIIIIIIIIGHT.

Is that a Homestar Runner "AAAAWWWWWRIIIIIIIIGHT", or a Glen Quagmire "AAAAWWWWWRIIIIIIIIGHT"?

[NemZ]

Whether or not there is social stigma with incest, there's still the case that inbreeding really screws up the family's genepool. Children born from incest are not only of lesser intelligence (or some such thing), but they also have several health complications as a result.

Long term? Yes, genetic anomalies pile up and you start getting weird birth defects or hightened suseptibilities to certain diseases.

Short term? Not that big a deal unless they both come from really bad stock.

Rei? We have no reason to think that she even could conceive a child with a human. 'Woman that does not bleed' remember? If if that problem were avoided, there's always the hybrid nature of her existence to likely prevent such pregnancies from being viable.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

How can anybody honestly think that THAT is alright?

It's not that cut and dry. Morality is a very murky subject in NGE. Certainly not even you would say what Shinji did in the hospital was in any way morally ok reguardless of what Asuka said about it. That's why arguements about the morality of pairings is stupid.

[PartyHard]

Whether or not there is social stigma with incest, there's still the case that inbreeding really screws up the family's genepool. Children born from incest are not only of lesser intelligence (or some such thing), but they also have several health complications as a result.
How can anybody honestly think that THAT is alright?

Safe sex, abortion. No inbreeding, no problemo.

[Sailor Star Dust]

Is that a Homestar Runner "AAAAWWWWWRIIIIIIIIGHT", or a Glen Quagmire "AAAAWWWWWRIIIIIIIIGHT"?

The world my never know. I sorta hope it's the former. ^^;

'Woman that does not bleed' remember?

That line doesn't necessarily refer to Rei, nothing is really side either way with that line and Rei. However, it's possible it's referring to Lilith (her body) since she bleeds LCL and not blood.

assuming that Rei is *closely* related to Shinji, like brother/sister, cousin/cousin, but considering how the clone was made, Yui DNA with Angel DNA and whatever else they threw in to stablize the genome, I'd say its probably second or third cousins at best,

I've been meaning to ask something about this issue you brought up, or at least part of it.

Why exactly do some fans tend to think of Rei/Shinji as brother and sister, anyway? From what I understand, Reichu said something once how genes don't work that way and Rei would still be his mother (seeing as how her DNA is Yui's but her soul is Lilith's).

There's also this that should be taken into account:

Ayanami Rei -- Bandages. Mysteries. Indifference. An object of interest. Mother.
Soryu Asuka Langley -- Girl. Perplexing. Formidable. Indecipherable. Sex.
Katsuragi Misato -- Adult. Superior. Meddlesome. Soldier. Family.
Ikari Gendo -- Harsh. Commander. Hatred. Anger. Father. Father. Father.... ~Evangelion: Death & Rebirth (Special Edition) Theatrical Program Book

Shinji sees Rei as his mother. He even says things about that in the series. Not that he sees her as his sister or a friend or that creepy Angel or his uncle's cousin's wife's former room mate.

So uh, why do some fans think otherwise? Is it just because of their age (Shinji being older than the genetically created Rei), or do genes and such work that way??

That's why arguments about the morality of pairings is stupid.

Uh, this isn't a thread about pairings/shipping though. It's more about morals and incest in regards to Shinji/Rei yeah, but the point of this thread doesn't have to do with whether or not you support the pairing.

Safe sex, abortion. No inbreeding, no problemo.

1) Safer sex isn't always 100% foolproof though.

2) Not everybody is going to believe in choice, espeically those family members/partners/whoever that literally threaten to kill (or in some cases do) women who have an abortion. Also, there are states that have ALL abortions illegal or have certain restrictions on it...then what? Have the woman risk getting a dangerous back ally abortion or simply raise her inbreed child?

3) Something like adoption instead....I don't even see how that'd be allowed for the child because of how screwed up it would be.

4) There IS that problem society-wise of people being thrown in jail or what have you because of what the law states.

[PartyHard]

^You were talking about the inbreeding issue, and I answered just on that. The points you make now are only based on acceptance of abortion and incest by others.

Also, relevant

[NemZ]

Okay... gut reaction this time?

Yeah, that's kinda skwicky.

Going into Fanfic Land, If Shinji and Rei managed to get together before that little bombshell got dropped It would still be acceptable to my mind, so long as they don't both just shrug and go back to business... especially so if the tragic misunderstanding is played for all potential drama.

See Oedipus Ikari for what I consider to be an excellent example of the latter.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

Uh, this isn't a thread about pairings/shipping though. It's more about morals and incest in regards to Shinji/Rei yeah, but the point of this thread doesn't have to do with whether or not you support the pairing.

Last I checked R/S is a paring. One you're trying to say is immoral. My point is it doesn't matter what we think.

[Defectron]

Why exactly do some fans tend to think of Rei/Shinji as brother and sister, anyway? From what I understand, Reichu said something once how genes don't work that way and Rei would still be his mother (seeing as how her DNA is Yui's but her soul is Lilith's).

I think it would be funny if Shinji walked up to Gendo and said "Dad I think I have an oedipus complex"

But genetically, wouldnt Rei be about as close to Shinji as a step sister? She shares the genetic material of his mother. But she also shares some angel genetic material, possibly from Lillith instead of material from his dad.

[CorporalChaos]

Shinji sees Rei as his mother. He even says things about that in the series.

Of course, there is also a big difference between a girl being his 'mother' and seeing a girl that will 'mother' him...

[chee]

My stance: If you wanna fuck your sister, it's not my business and I won't stop you. Just don't be surprised when I give you funny looks and keep a 5-foot distance from you.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

But genetically, wouldnt Rei be about as close to Shinji as a step sister?

I think the phrase you're looking for is half sister.

But she also shares some angel genetic material, possibly from Lillith instead of material from his dad.

Prove it. Yui is the only source given for Rei's genetics.

[Zuggy]

moralz